Cheun Sau

[anerlich]

I did say; "Even if you aren't thinking about this gate or that gate when fighting, it's the fact that you're open from all sides and can't predict what the opponent is going to do."

No matter how automatic you train your actions to be, it is still a reactive method because you cannot predict the opponent's actions.

Opponent pulls the string on the upper right gate, and you shoot out your right biu-sau.
Opponent pulls the string on the lower left gate, and you shoot out your left gaang-sau.

Forgive me for not reading your posts more avidly and not more carefully inspecting each jewel of wisdom you deign to bestow.

I guess we want to get ahead of the action ASAP to avoid remaining reactive. But if you are attacked and don't react / be reactive at least initially, you'll be meditating in a horizontal position.

 

[LFJ]

I guess we want to get ahead of the action ASAP to avoid remaining reactive. But if you are attacked and don't react / be reactive at least initially, you'll be meditating in a horizontal position.

I don't use center guard + gate theory, so I don't have to react to what strings the opponent pulls.

 

[anerlich]

I don't use center guard + gate theory, so I don't have to react to what strings the opponent pulls.

Congrats.

 

[JPinAZ]

I don't use center guard + gate theory, so I don't have to react to what strings the opponent pulls.

You're a living miracle. Are your real initials JC?

 

[LFJ]

Congrats.

Thanks.

You're a living miracle. Are your real initials JC?

What?

 

[geezer]

JC is the Romanized abbreviation for Yeshua of Nazareth, a well known teacher, miracle worker, and healer living some two thousand years ago in Israel. You may have heard of him?

Anyway, I believe this was either a reference to your miraculous skill or perhaps your healing ability ...after not reacting to a strong and well-timed offense by your opponent.

Of course I could be wrong...

 

[LFJ]

JC is the Romanized abbreviation for Yeshua of Nazareth, a well known teacher, miracle worker, and healer living some two thousand years ago in Israel. You may have heard of him?

Anyway, I believe this was either a reference to your miraculous skill or perhaps your healing ability ...after not reacting to a strong and well-timed offense by your opponent.

Of course I could be wrong...

It's sad that not using a reactive center guard where you're open on all sides is deemed miraculous.

Many other TCMAs use guard tactics similar in theory to mine.

It's just common, intelligent kung fu not to put the ball completely in the opponent's court.

 

[geezer]

It's just common, intelligent kung fu not to put the ball completely in the opponent's court.

Well Gee! I didn't realize that Andrew was advocating that!!! I somehow thought he was saying that just being offensive and not being able to react defensively to the unexpected was not, by itself, enough.

 

[anerlich]

I think LFJ may have taken an uncharitable interpretation of some parts of my posts and run with them.

I've probably done the same with many of his ... but out of necessity. For some reason I'm finding it hard to draw many positives.

I can't really be bothered trying to make my prose so bulletproof that some linguistic and conceptual acrobat can't pull something negative I didn't actually say out of it.

Had a good jiu jitsu class today and did well against some tough opponents including a seniors black belt world champion. Playing word twister on forums with snarky keyboard warriors isn't really much of a challenge or provide much satisfaction in comparison. Guess I need to review my priorities.

 

[anerlich]

It's sad that not using a reactive center guard where you're open on all sides is deemed miraculous.

No one actually advocated using a reactive center guard where you're open on all sides.

You are responding to phantom posters or posts.

"I refuted something none of you actually said, so I'm smarter than all of you."

That would make make you at best intellectually dishonest, though a less cultured and erudite person might just say it made you a d*ck.

 

[LFJ]

It's just common, intelligent kung fu not to put the ball completely in the opponent's court.

Well Gee! I didn't realize that Andrew was advocating that!!!

No one actually advocated using a reactive center guard where you're open on all sides.

We were talking about center guard + gate theory, which does essentially that.

Center guard is open on all sides and results in reacting to the strings the opponent pulls.

TWC side stance has the guard on the central line, in the middle, aimed at the opponent. Same thing.

I somehow thought he was saying that just being offensive and not being able to react defensively to the unexpected was not, by itself, enough.

And who was advocating that?

What I had suggested was a more intelligent guard strategy and if in range to throw a biu-sau to block a punch then biu to the other side, to instead use a punch that accomplishes the same task while also being a strike.

But if you're obsessed with occupying center and shooting arms out to block in whichever direction, it's very difficult to have any sort of strategy that is not arm-chasing.

 

[anerlich]

We seem to be talking past each other. Not intentionally in my case, LFJ I couldn't say that about for sure.

Getting out of here before a string is pulled that I end up garotting someone with.

 

[KPM]

I think LFJ may have taken an uncharitable interpretation of some parts of my posts and run with them.

I've probably done the same with many of his ... but out of necessity. For some reason I'm finding it hard to draw many positives.

I can't really be bothered trying to make my prose so bulletproof that some linguistic and conceptual acrobat can't pull something negative I didn't actually say out of it.
.

That's his typical M.O.

 

[KPM]

We were talking about center guard + gate theory, which does essentially that.

Center guard is open on all sides and results in reacting to the strings the opponent pulls.

TWC side stance has the guard on the central line, in the middle, aimed at the opponent. Same thing.

.

I see a "center guard aimed at the opponent" in evidence throughout this clip that Sean shared. Do you not do the same "VT" as Sean???

 

[LFJ]

I see a "center guard aimed at the opponent" in evidence throughout this clip that Sean shared. Do you not do the same "VT" as Sean???

No, you don't. His VT isn't reactive center guard + gate theory either.
This has been explained to you before. Not sure why you keep forgetting.

 

[KPM]

No, you don't. His VT isn't reactive center guard + gate theory either.
This has been explained to you before. Not sure why you keep forgetting.

Yes, I do. Multiple times the person in the video pauses or "resets" during the drill into a center guard aimed directly at his partner. Not sure why you continually refuse to see what is pretty obvious in videos when it doesn't match what you believe.

 

[geezer]

Yes, I do. Multiple times the person in the video pauses or "resets" during the drill into a center guard aimed directly at his partner. Not sure why you continually refuse to see what is pretty obvious in videos when it doesn't match what you believe.

I think the key issue here isn't the man-sau and wu-sau positioning so much as are you being defensively "reactive" as compared to pre-emptively "proactive". I certainly get that. Unfortunately, some others may not want to acknowledge that anyone else has a clue.

 

[dudewingchun]

In the fight I had, I was caught off guard. Thought I had pretty decent reactions and was doing good in sparring, but the fight was way different. Alot of times I only saw the guys kick, when it landed and already hit me. Point is, can't rely on thinking you will react when he does x or y

 

[KPM]

I think the key issue here isn't the man-sau and wu-sau positioning so much as are you being defensively "reactive" as compared to pre-emptively "proactive". I certainly get that. Unfortunately, some others may not want to acknowledge that anyone else has a clue.

LFJ equated "center held guard directed at the opponent" with "open on all sides and results in reacting to the strings the opponent pulls".....which is an indictment of the guard position used in ALL Wing Chun, not just TWC. And something that is obviously wrong! And yet somehow he tries to deny that a center held guard directed at the opponent is being used by the VT guys in Sean's video.

But I sense an argument ensuing, which is exactly what LFJ wants, so I should probably just keep quite!

 

[JPinAZ]

WC's Bai Jong guard position is about maximum efficiency. It's not about leaving the 'sides open', it's about closing centerline down giving your opponent 2 options - try to break thru center, or take the long way around. In either case it puts time on your side and gives you the advantage before contact is even made . So really, it's about you pulling the strings right from the get go - LJF has it completely a55 backwards.

Anyone who can't see the usefulness of this, or doesn't understand this simple principle, still has a lot to learn about WC system. This is really basic stuff, not even worth my time dis
cussing further.