Can you learn from video?

[Charlemagne]

Motor skills are different than studying for an exam, so that is important to consider. Just like mental practice can be a good supplement to actual practice, so can video. I would stipulate however that we are talking about using video to then work on in physical and mental practice sessions. Just watching a video, not so much.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'd agree as far as trying to learn from video alone. On the other hand, as KPM, Buka, and others have said, video can be a great supplement to live, in-person instruction. And, for advanced practitioners, ideas gleaned from videos can really be helpful. At least that's my experience.

The real problem for me is that watching videos (as well as reading books, and discussing technique verbally) and trying to apply the material with some reasonable semblance of functionality is way more work, and way more boring, than training in class under your instructor. And then you still need to run it by your instructor to get it right.

One thing I've noted as a student whose instructor lives 1,000 miles away, is that if you have to figure things out yourself, even though you may need to get the details polished later, you will really understand the material more deeply than students who simply mimic an instructor without knowing why they are doing what they do. ...Of course having some decades of experience in the art is helpful too.

Sure you can learn, incorrectly. I guess that's learning!

 

[KPM]

So what do you do if you are really interested in learning a martial art that is relatively rare and unavailable in the US? In my case I got in touch with my Sifu and built a relationship on-line. He was convinced of my sincerity, and so provided me with video to start studying. Since I had a pretty extensive background in Wing Chun, picking up on motions on video of a similar martial art wasn't a big problem. Then I filmed footage of myself going through the forms and send them to my Sifu for comment and feedback. Rinse and repeat. Then I scheduled a trip to Hong Kong for hands on training. Since I had already learned the sequence of the form from video I didn't have to start from scratch. I just needed corrections to what I had been working on. This was a huge advantage over trying to learn everything from scratch at that initial visit. Then I trained the 2 man drills with Sifu and filmed them for quick reference and reminder when I got home. I also filmed Sifu teaching and demo'ing the next form on several different occasions. I pick up things relatively easily when watching on video because I can think and visualize in 3 dimensions. But I'm sure I'm not all that special.

So I don't know about you, but I can assure you that I can learn from video!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can learn by your own logic as well. Assume we just use front kick, roundhouse kick, side kick, foot sweep (A1, A2, A3, A4) and jab, cross, hook, uppercut (B1, B2, B3, B4) as building block.

How many combination can we come up with?

- A1, A1
- A1, A2,
- A1, A3,
- A1, A4,
- A1, B1,
- A1, B2,
- A1. B3,
- A1, B4,
- A2, ...

You will have a total of 8 x 8 = 64 combinations. Some combos make sense but some combos may not make sense. Do you need a MA teacher to show you all those 64 combinations, or you can figure out all those combinations by yourself?

 

[Hyoho]

There is little to be learned from video instruction. Can you really be so narcissistic as to watch your own video and say. "That was good"?

When I watch a video I can usually see all the things someone should NOT be doing in my particular fields. So for this reason it is a good tool to watch other people that wish to progress, then comment and suggest to them what to work on.

 

[geezer]

When I watch a video I can usually see all the things someone should NOT be doing in my particular fields. So for this reason it is a good tool to watch other people that wish to progress, then comment and suggest to them what to work on.

IMO using video this way is quite valuable, and has been so used for decades by professional coaches in all kinds of sport and activities. My DTE escrima coach would often get sick of correcting us and not having us understand what he was complaining about, so he'd grab a phone, record us and then play it back so we could see our mistakes as he saw them. Humbling, but useful!

 

[geezer]

Sure you can learn, incorrectly. I guess that's learning!

I don't really get where your negativity is coming from, Bill. Everybody learns imperfectly at first. Then, under the watchful eye of an instructor, and through practice. a lot of practice, we get better. Hopefully, at least.

Using video to help the process along is acceptable. Unfortunately for me, most of the material I am training is not available on video. But if it were available and could help me see my errors, I'd use it.

 

[anerlich]

You can't learn too much from watching videos alone.

In the early days of Jiu Jitsu, some previously untrained people got pretty good by watching videos and practising with their friends in a garage.

These days, I have seen a few guys with no jiu jitsu training come to class and already have some decent basic knowledge which serves as a foundation for training. Some even just watching UFC and BJJ competition videos.

Most serious Jiu Jitsu guys have learned a ton from videos. All the 50/50 guard stuff I do came exclusively from video. My guard has definitely improved from implementing things I learned from video. I've usually got a few vids on the go at any time and am working stuff from them on the mat.

 

[anerlich]

There is little to be learned from video instruction. Can you really be so narcissistic as to watch your own video and say. "That was good"?

I don't think many do that. They watch video to see their own mistakes and where they can improve.

When I watch a video I can usually see all the things someone should NOT be doing in my particular fields. So for this reason it is a good tool to watch other people that wish to progress, then comment and suggest to them what to work on.

Your particular fields must have a small number of participants, or you are watching a lot of poor videos.

 

[geezer]

You can't learn too much from watching videos alone.

In the early days of Jiu Jitsu, some previously untrained people got pretty good by watching videos and practising with their friends in a garage.

These days, I have seen a few guys with no jiu jitsu training come to class and already have some decent basic knowledge which serves as a foundation for training. Some even just watching UFC and BJJ competition videos.

Most serious Jiu Jitsu guys have learned a ton from videos. All the 50/50 guard stuff I do came exclusively from video. My guard has definitely improved from implementing things I learned from video. I've usually got a few vids on the go at any time and am working stuff from them on the mat.

I watched some basic BJJ videos, tried out the moves with a friend and I learned something hugely important.


...namely that my knowledge of grappling (based on wrestling as a kid and later, WT anti-grappling) is woefully inadequate, and that I would really like to add REAL BJJ (learned in person under a good instructor) to what I know. Considering my age (about the same as yours, Anerlich --I'll turn 61 next month) and my limited free time these days, that may not happen. But at least, when I get a student who in interested in having a decent ground game, I don't try to sell them on WT anti-grappling. Instead I know who to send them to!

 

[Mr.J]

Sure you can learn, incorrectly. I guess that's learning!

Thats why its like writing a good paper multiple sources are the best it allows you to study it from a multitude of angle which you can then add into to build of that skill.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can you learn this "arm drag counter" by watching the following clip? What can you learn from this clip?

- Your opponent tries to pull you toward north west, instead of yielding into the north-west, or resisting toward the south east, you attack the north east direction instead.
- You try to jam your opponent's leading leg to prevent him from moving toward your right and behind.
- You have to react fast before your opponent can pull you and force your weight to be shifted onto your right leading leg. It's hard to pull up your leg and move toward your north east after that.
- ...

 

[Mr.J]

So what do you do if you are really interested in learning a martial art that is relatively rare and unavailable in the US? In my case I got in touch with my Sifu and built a relationship on-line. He was convinced of my sincerity, and so provided me with video to start studying. Since I had a pretty extensive background in Wing Chun, picking up on motions on video of a similar martial art wasn't a big problem. Then I filmed footage of myself going through the forms and send them to my Sifu for comment and feedback. Rinse and repeat. Then I scheduled a trip to Hong Kong for hands on training. Since I had already learned the sequence of the form from video I didn't have to start from scratch. I just needed corrections to what I had been working on. This was a huge advantage over trying to learn everything from scratch at that initial visit. Then I trained the 2 man drills with Sifu and filmed them for quick reference and reminder when I got home. I also filmed Sifu teaching and demo'ing the next form on several different occasions. I pick up things relatively easily when watching on video because I can think and visualize in 3 dimensions. But I'm sure I'm not all that special.

So I don't know about you, but I can assure you that I can learn from video!

Which branch of wing chun i ask because i am attempting to gain a grasp of the basics. I think that no one branch is truly the original form of wing chun. But if all are combined they get close to what wing chun originally was. I could be wrong.. But i digress i need people to review what i do and point out anything that may help.

 

[KPM]

^^^^^ What you need to do is locate a good teacher that is within an acceptable traveling distance. Pay him a visit with a good video camera and record the lesson. Then go home and find a training partner and start working through the material that you have recorded. Or get the teacher to recommend some commercially available instructional DVDs to work from and that the teacher himself follows relatively closely. Return for training as often as you can and in between trips record what you are working on with your video camera and send it to your teacher for feedback. But you have to have a like-minded training partner at home to work with. You cannot learn Wing Chun or any martial art solo.

 

[Mr.J]

^^^^^ What you need to do is locate a good teacher that is within an acceptable traveling distance. Pay him a visit with a good video camera and record the lesson. Then go home and find a training partner and start working through the material that you have recorded. Or get the teacher to recommend some commercially available instructional DVDs to work from and that the teacher himself follows relatively closely. Return for training as often as you can and in between trips record what you are working on with your video camera and send it to your teacher for feedback. But you have to have a like-minded training partner at home to work with. You cannot learn Wing Chun or any martial art solo.

Thats unlikly to happen. No car no money.... And the closest instructor of WC is.... 16 miles away. As for a partner to work with that will only happen after a become some what proficient with siu lim tau....

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't really get where your negativity is coming from, Bill. Everybody learns imperfectly at first. Then, under the watchful eye of an instructor, and through practice. a lot of practice, we get better. Hopefully, at least.

Using video to help the process along is acceptable. Unfortunately for me, most of the material I am training is not available on video. But if it were available and could help me see my errors, I'd use it.

I'm not trying to be negative. I agree everyone learns imperfectly at first. A competent instructor keeps a student from locking errors in. A video offers no feedback.

And the difference between correct and incorrect can be do small as to be invisible to a video camera.

What videos have given me have been ideas. A rough sketch. An outline. Far far short of a usable technique.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Thats unlikly to happen. No car no money.... And the closest instructor of WC is.... 16 miles away. As for a partner to work with that will only happen after a become some what proficient with siu lim tau....

Find a way, or do not. Part of the training is finding a path, then getting and staying on it.

 

[Mr.J]

Find a way, or do not. Part of the training is finding a path, then getting and staying on it.

I already am. Whether a instructor is part of it is still to be determined. Whether people with knowledge choose to aide in is also undetermined. Me continueing inspite of that is not.

 

[Buka]

No.

Learning from video probably means different things to different people. Can a novice learn from a video alone? I doubt it, but I've never seen that situation.

Think about your instructor for a minute, think about the people who are teaching you. If you showed them a video that showed and explained a technique that countered something they did, do you think they would pick up on it? Or would they be lost?

If your instructor's teacher sent him a video related to what it is that you are doing, do you think your instructor would understand?

If a good video was a tutorial, put together well, by the folks who are teaching you, do you think you could understand them and learn anything? Especially if it concerned something that went along with what you are already familiar with?

If your instructor had a few hours of video of me training and fighting, and showed it to you, along with his advice and training, do you think it could help you prepare for a match with me if he was helping you by using it as a teaching tool? I think you would learn some of my weaknesses and probably overpower me and run me right into next week.

Give me an hour of you training and fighting and I'll close one eye and keep my right hand on my butt. You'll never touch me, you'll be too busy trying to get up.

Even if you can't use video yet, my guess is a student of your calibre eventually will.

 

[anerlich]

I watched some basic BJJ videos, tried out the moves with a friend and I learned something hugely important.


...namely that my knowledge of grappling (based on wrestling as a kid and later, WT anti-grappling) is woefully inadequate, and that I would really like to add REAL BJJ (learned in person under a good instructor) to what I know. Considering my age (about the same as yours, Anerlich --I'll turn 61 next month) and my limited free time these days, that may not happen. But at least, when I get a student who in interested in having a decent ground game, I don't try to sell them on WT anti-grappling. Instead I know who to send them to!

There's still time. A 70 year old guy started at our gym a couple of weeks ago. He has some judo in his past, but felt he was a bit old for that many heavy falls. Even if you just learn enough to get toward blue belt level, you'll have a solid understanding of the basics.