Can we call MMA a style?

[Finlay]

Musings while bored at work



I picked up from another discussion where someone said MMA wasn't a style. on the surface i agree with them and the name 'Mixed Martial Arts' also goes some way to confirm this position.

However,

if we compare it to other 'traditional' styles could it be seen as being a style on its own?

in MMA people train to compete under a set of rules, there are some variations but for the main part the rules are fairly similar. The rules of a competition can dictate/define a style, for example judo, Maui Thai, Taekwondo all (or mostly) train to adhere to the rules of a competition. As the rules change so does the art. I believe this is most obvious in Judo where some rule changes have altered the art. Maybe/hopefully someone will be able to confirm this

If MMA is not being counted as a style because it is just a mix of other styles, then i would ask what traditional art is not a mix of other styles? and even how isolated is the mix? Are there still fighters that do pure BBJ with pure Maui Thai? or have they also added in a couple of wrestling moves that they saw and/or were introduced to by a high level practitioner.

Again this is largely the way that traditional styles came about with the founders combining styles or adding techniques to a base style that they were well versed in.

Maybe the strongest argument (in my opinion) for MMA not being classed as a style is that there is no standard across schools.

I am not sure that this is still true, over the years the skills and techniques that are required to be successful in the MMA ring has been boiled done and refined to a specific group which a fighter needs to focus on. Of course we get the occasional exceptions. but in general fighters work to very similar principles. Again this is because of the rules set they all have to fight to.

Also, to this point, how much standard is there in the traditional arts beyond kata/forms. Every teacher has their own take on what the art should be and should look like, this is very true in CMA where you can be hard pressed to find two teachers with the same ideas even within the same style.

so, can we call MMA a style? if not what can we call it?

 

[Tez3]

so, can we call MMA a style? if not what can we call it?

Something there's threads on here already about?
What is MMA?

 

[drop bear]

yes for the very practical pourpose of going to a gym that trains in that style.

 

[Martial D]

Musings while bored at work



I picked up from another discussion where someone said MMA wasn't a style. on the surface i agree with them and the name 'Mixed Martial Arts' also goes some way to confirm this position.

However,

if we compare it to other 'traditional' styles could it be seen as being a style on its own?

in MMA people train to compete under a set of rules, there are some variations but for the main part the rules are fairly similar. The rules of a competition can dictate/define a style, for example judo, Maui Thai, Taekwondo all (or mostly) train to adhere to the rules of a competition. As the rules change so does the art. I believe this is most obvious in Judo where some rule changes have altered the art. Maybe/hopefully someone will be able to confirm this

If MMA is not being counted as a style because it is just a mix of other styles, then i would ask what traditional art is not a mix of other styles? and even how isolated is the mix? Are there still fighters that do pure BBJ with pure Maui Thai? or have they also added in a couple of wrestling moves that they saw and/or were introduced to by a high level practitioner.

Again this is largely the way that traditional styles came about with the founders combining styles or adding techniques to a base style that they were well versed in.

Maybe the strongest argument (in my opinion) for MMA not being classed as a style is that there is no standard across schools.

I am not sure that this is still true, over the years the skills and techniques that are required to be successful in the MMA ring has been boiled done and refined to a specific group which a fighter needs to focus on. Of course we get the occasional exceptions. but in general fighters work to very similar principles. Again this is because of the rules set they all have to fight to.

Also, to this point, how much standard is there in the traditional arts beyond kata/forms. Every teacher has their own take on what the art should be and should look like, this is very true in CMA where you can be hard pressed to find two teachers with the same ideas even within the same style.

so, can we call MMA a style? if not what can we call it?

Yes, I've made this argument before quite recently.

To nutshell it; if borrowing from other systems disqualifies something from being a style, then most TMA s aren't styles either.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Personally, I think it's on it's way to becoming a unified style, but it's not there yet.

There are too many people who practice 'MMA' from different schools, with different techniques and styles, even if you could make the argument that most learn muay thai/bjj (which I'm not actually certain you can make, I never cared enough to look into it).

That said, I've got no issue referring to it the same way I would a style, simply because it makes communication easier.

 

[FighterTwister]

Musings while bored at work



I picked up from another discussion where someone said MMA wasn't a style. on the surface i agree with them and the name 'Mixed Martial Arts' also goes some way to confirm this position.

However,

if we compare it to other 'traditional' styles could it be seen as being a style on its own?

in MMA people train to compete under a set of rules, there are some variations but for the main part the rules are fairly similar. The rules of a competition can dictate/define a style, for example judo, Maui Thai, Taekwondo all (or mostly) train to adhere to the rules of a competition. As the rules change so does the art. I believe this is most obvious in Judo where some rule changes have altered the art. Maybe/hopefully someone will be able to confirm this

If MMA is not being counted as a style because it is just a mix of other styles, then i would ask what traditional art is not a mix of other styles? and even how isolated is the mix? Are there still fighters that do pure BBJ with pure Maui Thai? or have they also added in a couple of wrestling moves that they saw and/or were introduced to by a high level practitioner.

Again this is largely the way that traditional styles came about with the founders combining styles or adding techniques to a base style that they were well versed in.

Maybe the strongest argument (in my opinion) for MMA not being classed as a style is that there is no standard across schools.

I am not sure that this is still true, over the years the skills and techniques that are required to be successful in the MMA ring has been boiled done and refined to a specific group which a fighter needs to focus on. Of course we get the occasional exceptions. but in general fighters work to very similar principles. Again this is because of the rules set they all have to fight to.

Also, to this point, how much standard is there in the traditional arts beyond kata/forms. Every teacher has their own take on what the art should be and should look like, this is very true in CMA where you can be hard pressed to find two teachers with the same ideas even within the same style.

so, can we call MMA a style? if not what can we call it?

No its "Mixed Martial Arts" (MMA) permanently in terms of identification and classification!

As for a unified system I would say not unified but partly combined in direction and working principle.

You can't unify something that has already been identified as its own full working structure with its rule sets. However you can combine it by burrowing elements that will work within the construct of the environment you are trying to create with its rule sets that you are trying to achieve within a sport environment.

Sports + Martial Arts does not = MMA

Its Sports + Combined Skill Sets = MMA

Hence the fact that a complete systems works best within its own boundaries of application and process

There are limitations of whats crossed over that creates a false positive in its founding nature to advance into sports realms.

You cannot plant certain trees into unbalanced soils, its a whole Yin and Yang concept, the chemistry is off balance and usually something is wrong in the design.

I think that was proven recently with Conor vs Floyd fight to some degree can you see the argument in the forces applied that are opposite in nature and in principle due to application on the change of rule sets.

Boxing is Boxing and UFC is UFC hence the cycle and nature of the reality in the argument, thats either in a confinement or detraction state of being from the true form.

Yin and Yang Bro!

 

[Martial D]

There are too many people who practice 'MMA' from different schools, with different techniques and styles.

Then Wing Chun, Karate, and TKD arent styles either, just to name a few TMAs this statement is also true of.

 

[MA_Student]

Yes

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Then Wing Chun, Karate, and TKD arent styles either, just to name a few TMAs this statement is also true of.

I don't know enough about wing chun, but you are correct with karate and TKD. They're referred to as styles because it's easier communication wise, but the actual styles (for karate) would be shotokan karate, isshin ryu karate, goju ryu karate, shorin ryu karate; same for TKD.

 

[FighterTwister]

Well I see it differently.

As an example................

- "The Karate system in the Kyokushinkai style is awesome".

You see my point.

Application of words......

• Styles
• System
• Forms
• Types

So I just think we are going to run into these conundrums, patience is a virtue!

Its unavoidable if you ask me, language is an art form all to itself

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well I see it differently.

As an example................

- "The Karate system in the Kyokushinkai style is awesome".

You see my point.

Application of words......

• Styles
• System
• Forms
• Types

So I just think we are going to run into these conundrums, patience is a virtue!

Its unavoidable if you ask me, language is an art form all to itself

To clarify, who are you responding to with the "I see it differently"?

Also, are you suggesting the system or the style is the broader term? I would assume based on kyokushin that you're referring to the style as more specific, but the way you worded it is stating the opposite.

 

[FighterTwister]

To clarify, who are you responding to with the "I see it differently"?

Also, are you suggesting the system or the style is the broader term? I would assume based on kyokushin that you're referring to the style as more specific, but the way you worded it is stating the opposite.

The very intent of leaving a quote out ...........everyone............ whoever would like to reason and accept the fact that it comes down to language, terms, definition and grammar etc

I don't know you, you don't know me, its never personal its the internet we are just chatting.

I'm not suggesting anything its proper English and use of terms I'm addressing.

One is identifying type the other the category does that help!

Its about referencing what you are discussing in terms, expression and choice of words etc.

For us all, practice makes perfect not just in martial arts

"Precision of Language"-

 

[marques]

Originally MMA was only a competition. Then it became a combat sport in itself, if trained within MMA ruleset and context.

What is K1 kickboxing? The same story... A competition that became a combat sport.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The very intent of leaving a quote out ...........everyone............ whoever would like to reason and accept the fact that it comes down to language, terms, definition and grammar etc

I don't know you, you don't know me, its never personal its the internet we are just chatting.

I'm not suggesting anything its proper English and use of terms I'm addressing.

One is identifying type the other the category does that help!

Its about referencing what you are discussing in terms, expression and choice of words etc.

For us all, practice makes perfect not just in martial arts

"Precision of Language"-

...that answered literally none of my questions...

The who are you disagreeing with is important because it tells me what you're disagreeing with, rather than knowing your disagreeing with one idea in a thread (that has had people post opposite ideas). I don't care if the disagreement is with me or someone else, but not knowing what makes that disagreement entirely pointless.

Then you go on about precision of language, but your own language was still unclear. So i will ask again, You said karate is a system in kyokushin style. Did you mean this, implying the system is more specific than the style, or did you mean that kyokushin is a style within the karate system?

 

[Tez3]

Maybe the strongest argument (in my opinion) for MMA not being classed as a style is that there is no standard across schools.

Sigh, go on I'll bite even though this argument is 20 years too late. First MMA doesn't have 'schools' like boxing it comes out of gyms. As for standards... winning is the standard people go by. In a competitive sport what else would it be.

Boxing is Boxing and UFC is UFC

One of my pet hates here. The UFC is a company, a money making business it is not a style or even a sport. You mean MMA not UFC.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Originally MMA was only a competition. Then it became a combat sport in itself, if trained within MMA ruleset and context.

What is K1 kickboxing? The same story... A competition that became a combat sport.

Agreed. And the more "MMA gyms" tend to offer the same basics (with some variations), the more it resembles an organized style. The inherent problem is the distinction between the competition and the training. A purist in any style (or someone studying any blend of styles) could enter an MMA competition. From that perspective, it's a sport, not a style. However, if someone goes to the MMA gym Drop Bear trains at, we could predict much of what we'd see there, with some likely variables. The same goes for most MMA gyms. We could argue there are different sub-styles within the burgeoning "MMA style" (boxing as primary standup vs. Muay Thai, wrestling as primary ground vs. BJJ, etc.), but we can predict which variations we'd see if we looked at a bunch of successful (at MMA fights) gyms.

 

[FighterTwister]

Sigh, go on I'll bite even though this argument is 20 years too late. First MMA doesn't have 'schools' like boxing it comes out of gyms. As for standards... winning is the standard people go by. In a competitive sport what else would it be.



One of my pet hates here. The UFC is a company, a money making business it is not a style or even a sport. You mean MMA not UFC.

LoL UFC is money and a company so is Boxing - USA Boxing - Features, Events, Results | Team USA ......... whats your point?

Boxing churns out trillions hence the Floyd vs Conor reference.

Read my previous posts again and see my meaning or points I'm addressing in my train of thought in a quick reply as I stop by this thread and a few others.

MMA is not a style either LoL its mixed martial arts a group of arts as a training regime if you like.

I mean if we are going to be anal about terms like styles and systems I'm saying that others address in certain posts then we could go on forever here.

Because this discussion relates to a few other threads if you have been following the last two weeks.

Its about opinions, interpretations, perceptions and understanding and characters on this Forum LoL

As an example with certain subjects say APPLES using say the word CATEGORY to define the fruit then the TYPE as another word to express the many VARIETY of apples.

You need to use terms of referencing in the conversation right as a form of describing the subject item or thing etc

Example.......... 25 Different Kinds Of Apples—And The Tasty Benefits Of Each

By the way Martial Arts is full of making money and a business don't deny it or disagree with me on that please because thats the world we live in.

Example:- https://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Individual-Sports-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=16571

I can see this clearly but hey what ever people want in todays crazy world right, I'm no pro writer but it seems some things are interpreted wrong in some threads as you discuss things.

Opinions - sure but opinions can be wrong if they are based on poor information and assumptions a common theme in many threads so far.

I hope thats clearer to some in Forum if not oh well I tried to the best of my knowledge............... carry on

 

[drop bear]

Agreed. And the more "MMA gyms" tend to offer the same basics (with some variations), the more it resembles an organized style. The inherent problem is the distinction between the competition and the training. A purist in any style (or someone studying any blend of styles) could enter an MMA competition. From that perspective, it's a sport, not a style. However, if someone goes to the MMA gym Drop Bear trains at, we could predict much of what we'd see there, with some likely variables. The same goes for most MMA gyms. We could argue there are different sub-styles within the burgeoning "MMA style" (boxing as primary standup vs. Muay Thai, wrestling as primary ground vs. BJJ, etc.), but we can predict which variations we'd see if we looked at a bunch of successful (at MMA fights) gyms.

And if you really want to upset people. MMA is a style. BJJ, boxing, wrestling and kick boxing are drills.

 

[drop bear]

LoL so is Boxing whats your point?

Read my previous posts again and see my meaning or points I'm addressing in my train of thought in a quick reply as I stop by this thread a few others.

MMA is not a style either LoL its mixed martial arts a group of arts as a training regime if you like.

I mean if we are going to be anal about terms like styles and systems I'm saying that others address in certain posts then we could go on forever here.

Because this discussion relates to a few other threads if you have been following the last two weeks.

Its about opinions, interpretations, perceptions and understanding and characters on this Forum LoL

As an example with certain subjects say APPLES using say the word CATEGORY to define the fruit then the TYPE as another word to express the many VARIETY of apples.

You need to use terms of referencing in the conversation right as a form of describing the subject item or thing etc

Example.......... 25 Different Kinds Of Apples—And The Tasty Benefits Of Each

By the way Martial Arts is full of making money and a business don't deny it or disagree with me on that please because thats the world we live in.

Example:- https://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Individual-Sports-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=16571

I can see this clearly but hey what ever people want in to days crazy world right, I;m no pro writer but it seems some things are interpreted wrong in some threads as you discuss things.

Opinions - sure but opinions can be wrong if they are based on poor information and assumptions a common theme in many threads so far.

I hope thats clearer to some in Forum if not oh well I tried to the best of my knowledge............... carry on

I can go to MMA class and train MMA.

 

[FighterTwister]

I can go to MMA class and train MMA.

LoL

I need some scotch and some music............. MUSIC THREAD - What you listen to............