- Thread Starter
- #81
I appreciate that. Karate comes the easiest to me. I think there's an order to it that my mind grasps more fluidly.
Can hard work make up for lack of talent?
I appreciate that. Karate comes the easiest to me. I think there's an order to it that my mind grasps more fluidly.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Agree, when we get too spread out, progress comes in very, very small pieces.
You'll never be sorry enough, Doc. Never.
You have no idea how sorry I can be. Just ask my wife! Wait... Scratch that...
jobo
Grandmaster
that's a really good question, what do they do ..? your a teacher, what talents do you think you can give them that they didn't have already. skills are dependent on their innate abilities to to learn and execute movement. the skills they develop there for are totally dependent on there innate abilities and there stick ability also an innate traits. you can help them , perhaps inspire them to reach the max potential of the talents they posses, but not give them talent or indeed ever increase there performance above their pre existing potential
I've noted through life, that " teachers like to take credit for success, but distance themselves from failure as the student was " genetically " or attitude challenged. when its large genetics and attitude that lead to any success rather than the teacher
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jobo
Grandmaster
well that leaves you then with a choice, gravitate, as most people do, to a sport that best suits your attributes OR pick the one that is most challenging as that may give you the most benifits. you really cant continue doing all three, as at best your not dedicating enough time to any of them to get the progression you desire
This is a different situation than training 3 entirely different systems. By that, I mean that an instructor teaching all 3, knowing there are crossover students - will often teach the commonalities and differences in a way that makes them parts of a larger system for the student.
- Thread Starter
- #87
Yes, that's exactly what he does.
I think what others have said about muscle memory makes sense - I may be making very slow progress because there's so much that's new, I'm only learning / practicing so much at one time.
Over the weekend I started setting additional time aside to practice some of the basics that I feel comfortable with on the bag, & so haven't been practicing at home. I can do them but that doesn't mean my body remembers them without having to think about it each time.
May be you need some
1. speed training - such as jump in the air, throw 3 punches, before landing back down. You will need to loose your shoulder joint, elbow joint, and wrist joint. When you move your hand so fast that you can't even see it, your opponent can't see your hand either.
2. power training - such as to compress to the maximum, and then release to the maximum. Different styles use different methods.
- Thread Starter
- #89
Specific suggestions are very helpful. I'll try this. Speed / reaction time seems to be one of my main shortcomings.
Here is a simple drill that you
- jump up.
- throw 3 punches (with the same hand). This is harder than throw both hands punches.
- before land back down.
- Thread Starter
- #91
Awesome, I will. Thank you!
Most of the reaction time difference comes from two areas:
- Not having to think about a response. This is the "muscle memory" - where the conscious brain doesn't have to contribute.
- Having a strong pattern recognition system to recognize what you're reacting to. This, again, takes it away from the conscious brain, giving the unconscious processes control (and they are much faster).
- Thread Starter
- #93
I think there is a "cause & effect" that I'm still catching on to. Meaning, I'm busy trying to do the movements correctly, & so I don't catch how my movements affect the other person, or how I need to react to the other person.
I know in theory that these reactions occur, but in practice I find knowing what to do & how to react to be a bit baffling. I figure it's some combination of overthinking what I personally am doing, & lack of experience recognizing what & how reactions occur.
Speed training is to
- Make one move.
- Read your opponent's respond,
- You then react to it.
This is why the 3 punches (while jumping in the air) is used to train speed.
- You throw 1 punch (1st punch).
- Your opponent intends to block it.
- Before your opponent's arm blocks your arm, you pull your punching arm back.
- You use the other hand to re-block his block (same direction).
- You then punch back with the same hand (2nd punch) through the other side of his blocking arm.
- Again, your opponent tries to block it.
- You pull your punching hand back, use the other hand to re-block it, and punch again (3rd punch) through the other side of his blocking arm.
If you train this drill long enough, you will be able to read your opponent's move during his "initial" stage. This will give you plenty of time to react.
- Make one move.
- Read your opponent's respond,
- You then react to it.
This is why the 3 punches (while jumping in the air) is used to train speed.
- You throw 1 punch (1st punch).
- Your opponent intends to block it.
- Before your opponent's arm blocks your arm, you pull your punching arm back.
- You use the other hand to re-block his block (same direction).
- You then punch back with the same hand (2nd punch) through the other side of his blocking arm.
- Again, your opponent tries to block it.
- You pull your punching hand back, use the other hand to re-block it, and punch again (3rd punch) through the other side of his blocking arm.
If you train this drill long enough, you will be able to read your opponent's move during his "initial" stage. This will give you plenty of time to react.
That's because you're human, Sarah.
This again, is because you're human. Your brain is forming a lot of new connections right now. They're not terribly well organized, because your brain lacks context for organizing them. The confusion starts to clear when your brain figures out how to connect things well. The recognition come from hundreds of repetitions of seeing something "kinda like that" happen (so, if you see a bunch of round kicks coming at you, you eventually learn to recognize it without thought). The response is a combination. First, you have to teach your body (actually, your brain) how to do the movement, until you can do it without thought (get that punch where you can punch pretty well without having to think about the parts). Then your brain has to add in the link that the punch is a good response to the pattern it has for that round kick.
Once you've managed all of that, your brain - without telling "you" - says, "Hey, look - that's a round kick coming. Toss a punch in to interrupt it." And you do, without experiencing all that thought.
- Thread Starter
- #96
That's because you're human, Sarah.
This again, is because you're human. Your brain is forming a lot of new connections right now. They're not terribly well organized, because your brain lacks context for organizing them. The confusion starts to clear when your brain figures out how to connect things well. The recognition come from hundreds of repetitions of seeing something "kinda like that" happen (so, if you see a bunch of round kicks coming at you, you eventually learn to recognize it without thought). The response is a combination. First, you have to teach your body (actually, your brain) how to do the movement, until you can do it without thought (get that punch where you can punch pretty well without having to think about the parts). Then your brain has to add in the link that the punch is a good response to the pattern it has for that round kick.
Once you've managed all of that, your brain - without telling "you" - says, "Hey, look - that's a round kick coming. Toss a punch in to interrupt it." And you do, without experiencing all that thought.
Wow. That makes complete & utter sense. Explained that way, it's completely doable. I think what I needed was help making sense of how the learning process evolves, especially regarding not just the body but the brain, so being at a particular stage of it doesn't seem wrong. I haven't had any context for *physical* learning until now.
Here are some interested speed tests:
1. Belly punch and face punch:
- You throw a right punch to your opponent's belley.
- You opponent drops down his right arm to block it.
- Before his right arm touches your right punching arm, you pull your right arm back, and punch to his face.
2. Leading arm punch back shoulder.
- Both you and your opponent has right side forward with arms drop next to the knees.
- You try to use leading right hand to punch your opponent's back left shoulder.
- Your opponent tries to raise his right leading arm to lock your punch.
If you succeed, you win that round. test it for 15 rounds, and have the winner for that day.
1. Belly punch and face punch:
- You throw a right punch to your opponent's belley.
- You opponent drops down his right arm to block it.
- Before his right arm touches your right punching arm, you pull your right arm back, and punch to his face.
2. Leading arm punch back shoulder.
- Both you and your opponent has right side forward with arms drop next to the knees.
- You try to use leading right hand to punch your opponent's back left shoulder.
- Your opponent tries to raise his right leading arm to lock your punch.
If you succeed, you win that round. test it for 15 rounds, and have the winner for that day.
I'm glad I could help. Now, get out there and work on those neural pathways, newbie!
- Thread Starter
- #99
MetalBoar
Black Belt
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2018
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Something I haven't seen anyone talking about on the thread (though I could have missed it) is basic physical conditioning. Especially if you were fairly sedentary before you started training, 8 months isn't very long to both develop things like strength and flexibility from a martial arts program. If you were to focus some attention on areas like this where you might have some weaknesses you could see fairly dramatic improvement in your performance. Training in your art(s) will improve these things but frequently not as quickly nor anywhere near as efficiently as a specialized routine.
Taking flexibility as an example - Back in my 20's I studied Hapkido for about 5 years. I am not naturally flexible, in fact I'm naturally inflexible, especially my legs and hips. When I started I progressed more quickly than the average student when it came to punching and grappling techniques but any kick higher than my opponents' knee was absolute garbage and I felt like I just couldn't learn them. It wasn't a problem with my brain or innate ability but it sure felt like it. It wasn't until I made a dedicated effort outside of class to really do some research and follow a dedicated flexibility program that I started to make any progress in that area. I'm sure if I'd just kept with the class I'd have eventually developed the flexibility to do the kicks properly but it would have taken far longer because I was so much less flexible than the average student that what we did for class wasn't enough for me. Strength can also be a limiting factor in the same way. If your legs are weaker than they need to be it makes it harder to be coordinated when you kick, etc. and a good strength training program will make you stronger much faster than a martial arts class.
Taking flexibility as an example - Back in my 20's I studied Hapkido for about 5 years. I am not naturally flexible, in fact I'm naturally inflexible, especially my legs and hips. When I started I progressed more quickly than the average student when it came to punching and grappling techniques but any kick higher than my opponents' knee was absolute garbage and I felt like I just couldn't learn them. It wasn't a problem with my brain or innate ability but it sure felt like it. It wasn't until I made a dedicated effort outside of class to really do some research and follow a dedicated flexibility program that I started to make any progress in that area. I'm sure if I'd just kept with the class I'd have eventually developed the flexibility to do the kicks properly but it would have taken far longer because I was so much less flexible than the average student that what we did for class wasn't enough for me. Strength can also be a limiting factor in the same way. If your legs are weaker than they need to be it makes it harder to be coordinated when you kick, etc. and a good strength training program will make you stronger much faster than a martial arts class.
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