Can hard work make up for lack of talent?

[Danny T]

no you said they had no natural talent, that's twice iv3 had to tell you what you clearly posted. so where did the talent they later had as " good fighters" come from, ?

The term talent refers to an inborn and the special ability of a person to do something without having to learn it (in our case here; fighting).
A skill is an expertise, which is acquired by the person by learning.
Talent is a nature gifted ability, whereas Skill is an ability in which you put your time and efforts to learn and develop.
Having the Capability to gain a Skill (in our case here; fighting) is not the same as having Talent .
I feel for you and your seeming lack of talent and skill to understand or maybe is more you just don't want to understand.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[marques]

I have been training in MMA, kickboxing & karate for about 8 months. I'm 33 years old & had no prior experience. I'm not the most uncoordinated person but teaching my body entirely new movements has not come naturally to me.

From my first class until about 5 months I felt like I just wasn't getting anything at all. Looking back I think that's because-

1) The sheer quantity of different moves was overwhelming - it's taken time to learn what's what, &
2) I was sort of thrown into sparring on my first night (I was looking around trying to figure out what we were even doing - I didn't know what sparring was or what was expected), & kept sparring every class until I had a thorough complex about it - I just didn't get it & started to believe I just couldn't. Beliefs are powerful - it's gotten in the way of forming confidence.

At some point I broke a barrier & started seeing progress. It helped that I didn't need to re-learn the difference between all the different blocks & punches, etc, & could just do them. I'm not frozen during sparring & can see how it's supposed to come together (I think).

I'm saying all this to explain my question. If I keep trying, can I develop the skills to actually be good? That's probably a taboo question, but it's honest - there are people who flourish at something, & people who always barely scrape by. And with some activities, scraping by isn't enough.

It seems to me that a lot of it is instinct. The ability to move without thinking. I want to know if working at it will be enough to develop the needed instincts & skills? Or, does a lack of inherent instincts, & an apparently extremely slow learning curve, mean that I should adjust my expectations to scraping by at best?

I ask mainly because there's a big part of me that believes - despite what seems like evidence to the contrary - that if I just have enough time & practice, the pieces will keep falling into place, maybe just a little more slowly as I wrap my mind around everything. But, I have no interest in fooling myself, if that's what I'm doing.

Yes, hard (but also smart) work works. I was also rubbish when started and perhaps feeling the same as you. My progression was slower than everyone else that started at roughly the same time as me. But after years training I was the most senior in the club and quite effective. On the other hand, not everyone can become world champion...

Eventually, I stopped and after years without training, I was still able to get bored at sparring senior people in a few clubs I visited. Training still working without training!

8 months is nothing. Look back after 8 years training. I would also select 1 or 2 out of the 3. I would be surprised if you can train seriously 3 things in the long run.

 

[Buka]

Can you suggest the type of supplemental training? I practice in the air alone, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Thank you!

Yes, sure. But first, are you talking about MMA sparring, kick boxing sparring or Karate sparring?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

MA involves

- skill development, and
- ability development.

Your talent may help your faster skill development. But your talent won't help your ability development.

 

[jobo]

The term talent refers to an inborn and the special ability of a person to do something without having to learn it (in our case here; fighting).
A skill is an expertise, which is acquired by the person by learning.
Talent is a nature gifted ability, whereas Skill is an ability in which you put your time and efforts to learn and develop.
Having the Capability to gain a Skill (in our case here; fighting) is not the same as having Talent .
I feel for you and your seeming lack of talent and skill to understand or maybe is more you just don't want to understand.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

no that's not the definition of talent, there are NOT many TALENTED musicians, that never had a " lession " to learn to play. I
even if it was a lession in a book

 

[Martial D]

I have been training in MMA, kickboxing & karate for about 8 months. I'm 33 years old & had no prior experience. I'm not the most uncoordinated person but teaching my body entirely new movements has not come naturally to me.

From my first class until about 5 months I felt like I just wasn't getting anything at all. Looking back I think that's because-

1) The sheer quantity of different moves was overwhelming - it's taken time to learn what's what, &
2) I was sort of thrown into sparring on my first night (I was looking around trying to figure out what we were even doing - I didn't know what sparring was or what was expected), & kept sparring every class until I had a thorough complex about it - I just didn't get it & started to believe I just couldn't. Beliefs are powerful - it's gotten in the way of forming confidence.

At some point I broke a barrier & started seeing progress. It helped that I didn't need to re-learn the difference between all the different blocks & punches, etc, & could just do them. I'm not frozen during sparring & can see how it's supposed to come together (I think).

I'm saying all this to explain my question. If I keep trying, can I develop the skills to actually be good? That's probably a taboo question, but it's honest - there are people who flourish at something, & people who always barely scrape by. And with some activities, scraping by isn't enough.

It seems to me that a lot of it is instinct. The ability to move without thinking. I want to know if working at it will be enough to develop the needed instincts & skills? Or, does a lack of inherent instincts, & an apparently extremely slow learning curve, mean that I should adjust my expectations to scraping by at best?

I ask mainly because there's a big part of me that believes - despite what seems like evidence to the contrary - that if I just have enough time & practice, the pieces will keep falling into place, maybe just a little more slowly as I wrap my mind around everything. But, I have no interest in fooling myself, if that's what I'm doing.

8 months is nothing. It sounds like you are progressing normally to me. Keep at it!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no that's not the definition of talent, there are NOT many TALENTED musicians, that never had a " lession " to learn to play. I
even if it was a lession in a book

Didn't you say talent can't be instilled? What do the lessons do?

 

[Danny T]

no that's not the definition of talent, there are NOT many TALENTED musicians, that never had a " lession " to learn to play. I
even if it was a lession in a book

Cambridge Dictionary
Talent: having a natural ability to be good at something especially without being taught.

Vocabulary.Com
Talent: natural abilities or qualities; a person who possess unusual innate ability in some field or activity. (innate: ability that is already present in a person or animal when they are born)

Oxford Dictionary
Talent: A natural aptitude or ability one is born with.

Collins Dictionary
Talent: The natural or innate ability to do something. A natural endowment to be able to do something.
Synonym note under talent in the Collins Dictionary:
Talent implies an apparent innate ability for a specific pursuit; a gift; a special ability bestowed upon one, as by nature, and not acquired through effort.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Talent: the natural endowments of a person
(endowment: power or ability given by nature)

 

[oftheherd1]

I wonder if there'll ever be a thread where jobo doesn't start an argument

Unsubstantiated rumor has it that in early Apr 17, he had at least one, and maybe two threads he entered without causing arguments. (I wish I could confirm that.)

Anyway, we who have watched, have seen him work harder and harder all the time and eventually overcome his lack of talent.



Sorry Jobo, I just couldn't resist given the OP's question and the gist of the answers.


@Sarah Mc, I think @Bill Mattocks has a better word, perseverance. I studied TKD briefly a lot of years ago. I found I hit a lot of plateaus and got discouraged. I kept at it and all of a sudden I would realize I had progressed a lot without realizing it.

When later in life I began studying Hapkido, I never felt so uncoordinated in my whole life. As time went by, I learned how to make things work. Perseverance kept me going and I learned nuances of grip and or foot placement to make things work as expected.

I expect you will learn as well. I do agree with those who have questioned taking 3 different arts as a beginner in each. I don't doubt you can make it work, but wonder if you will learn as quickly as you could taking only one, or at most two. I am inclined to think learning just one to a certain level of competence would be a better idea before branching to another art. But ultimately it is your life to do with as seems best to you.

 

[JR 137]

That’s one of the best things I’ve read here in quite some time.

@DocWard
Out of curiosity, why disagree with this post?

 

[DocWard]

@DocWard
Out of curiosity, why disagree with this post?

Apparently because I goofed. I meant to agree! My apologies, I fixed it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Unsubstantiated rumor has it that in early Apr 17, he had at least one, and maybe two threads he entered without causing arguments. (I wish I could confirm that.)

Anyway, we who have watched, have seen him work harder and harder all the time and eventually overcome his lack of talent.



Sorry Jobo, I just couldn't resist given the OP's question and the gist of the answers.


@Sarah Mc, I think @Bill Mattocks has a better word, perseverance. I studied TKD briefly a lot of years ago. I found I hit a lot of plateaus and got discouraged. I kept at it and all of a sudden I would realize I had progressed a lot without realizing it.

When later in life I began studying Hapkido, I never felt so uncoordinated in my whole life. As time went by, I learned how to make things work. Perseverance kept me going and I learned nuances of grip and or foot placement to make things work as expected.

I expect you will learn as well. I do agree with those who have questioned taking 3 different arts as a beginner in each. I don't doubt you can make it work, but wonder if you will learn as quickly as you could taking only one, or at most two. I am inclined to think learning just one to a certain level of competence would be a better idea before branching to another art. But ultimately it is your life to do with as seems best to you.

You hit on something i generally forgwt. We all know we're in our plateaus while we're in them. But we dont tend to realize when we leave them, unless someone else points it out, or something significant happens to shove our progress in our faces. So we spend time thinking about the frustrating part, and forget to congratulate ourselves for the rewarding part.

Its similar IMO to pain from an injury. When the pains tbere, you're very aware of it. But when it goes away, or lessens, you kind of forget about it until someone asks you how your injury is doing, or you do something that would normally hurt a lot more if it was still injured (walking without a cast for instance).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Cambridge Dictionary
Talent: having a natural ability to be good at something especially without being taught.

Vocabulary.Com
Talent: natural abilities or qualities; a person who possess unusual innate ability in some field or activity. (innate: ability that is already present in a person or animal when they are born)

Oxford Dictionary
Talent: A natural aptitude or ability one is born with.

Collins Dictionary
Talent: The natural or innate ability to do something. A natural endowment to be able to do something.
Synonym note under talent in the Collins Dictionary:
Talent implies an apparent innate ability for a specific pursuit; a gift; a special ability bestowed upon one, as by nature, and not acquired through effort.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Talent: the natural endowments of a person
(endowment: power or ability given by nature)

Sure, that's 5 dictionaries with common definitions...but can you find a 6th source?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Apparently because I goofed. I meant to agree! My apologies, I fixed it.

I'll just warn you, we don't forget that stuff. I still give @Mark Lynn hell about doing that on one of my posts...oh, 3 years ago I think it was. (Yeah, Mark, I'm still lookin' at you. )

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You hit on something i generally forgwt. We all know we're in our plateaus while we're in them. But we dont tend to realize when we leave them, unless someone else points it out, or something significant happens to shove our progress in our faces. So we spend time thinking about the frustrating part, and forget to congratulate ourselves for the rewarding part.

Its similar IMO to pain from an injury. When the pains tbere, you're very aware of it. But when it goes away, or lessens, you kind of forget about it until someone asks you how your injury is doing, or you do something that would normally hurt a lot more if it was still injured (walking without a cast for instance).

So true. This makes those "lightbulb moments" (Richard Bowe's term for them - often used to remind you "not all the lights are on" ) when you suddenly "get" a technique, and realize it works for you when you used to struggle with it, so enjoyable. Most of the time we don't get that sudden moment, we just progress out of a plateau and don't see the progress because it's a small change day over day.

Now quit talking about legs and casts so I can stop wishing I could run right now, damnit!

 

[DocWard]

I'll just warn you, we don't forget that stuff. I still give @Mark Lynn hell about doing that on one of my posts...oh, 3 years ago I think it was. (Yeah, Mark, I'm still lookin' at you. )

I said I'm sorry!!!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I said I'm sorry!!!

You'll never be sorry enough, Doc. Never.

 

[Sarah Mc]

I tend to agree with this...unless they are all taught at the same facility. MMA gyms, for instance, do a good job of teaching multiple styles at the same time. I'm pretty much okay with someone starting two styles at once (it slows the start, but I think they make up that time a year or two later, and probably move a bit faster), but three separate styles seems a heavy load..

Yes, I learn all of them from the same sensei. He makes sure to show how they can all work together. I spend the least time on MMA & about equal time on kickboxing & karate. I really enjoy both of them & would prefer to focus there, absolutely.

 

[Sarah Mc]

Yes, sure. But first, are you talking about MMA sparring, kick boxing sparring or Karate sparring?

Primarily kickboxing sparring. Karate comes much more easily to me than kickboxing somehow.

 

[Sarah Mc]

You hit on something i generally forgwt. We all know we're in our plateaus while we're in them. But we dont tend to realize when we leave them, unless someone else points it out, or something significant happens to shove our progress in our faces. So we spend time thinking about the frustrating part, and forget to congratulate ourselves for the rewarding part.

Man is that ever me. I think the majority of my struggle is from being held back from the idea that I'm lacking something the others have. Then when I do make progress, I miss it, or think it's not enough.