Feeling like I'm making some progress
- Thread starter Orion Nebula
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jobo
Grandmaster
theres a guy goes in the park, he in in his 70s he has just had two hip replacements and a triple heart bypass and walking on crutches, he does two laps which is about 2 and a half miles every day as he is determined to get well, for him I have admiration, for a 32 to, that struggling to do the same, not a lot
I'm saying addiction, which comes in many forms, is something about which your understanding is, clearly, somewhere between zilch and nada.
jobo
Grandmaster
well he needs to get the type that addicts him to exercise, to be honest try to pass of greed as a cheeseburger addictionis enabling in the worse possible way, what about personal responsibility and rectifying past bad choices. seems no one needs that any more ?
OP
OP
Orion Nebula
Green Belt
I'm about 80% certain that Jobo is just screwing with us. Few people could be so dense. First I can't walk two miles without it almost killing me. Then I'm a loser because I only hiked 3 miles instead of 10. Now I'm back to not even being able walk 2 and a half miles around a park. Well what is it? Can I walk or can't I? I think he's just saying whatever comes to his mind as the most annoying. Either that or he was bullied as a child for something that he thought he should have had better control over, and thus it has turned him into a grumpy bugger. It may have involved cheeseburgers since he's fixated on that.
DocWard
Purple Belt
I'm seldom completely dumbfounded by someone's statements, but you come close. Make no bones about it, you absolutely have attacked his efforts as you continue to do even in this post. You are either being willingly obtuse in denying it, or blatantly lying.
And what, pray tell, am I--are we--enabling? Continued weight loss? Increasing physical fitness? Long term lifestyle changes that won't be cut short by frustration or injury by the infantile "go hard or go home" mindset you suggest? I will admit to all of those things. The question I have for you is, why would you try to sabotage them with your commentary? Are you jealous of his success? Do you really know so little that you actually believe the tripe you spew? Or are you simply a useless troll who gets his jollies by belittling the efforts of others?
We sparred a little on another thread, and I made a comment or two I now regret. For that you have my apologies. Your insight here makes me wish to tip my hat to you, Sir.
jobo
Grandmaster
your giving him excuses for failure, the chances of him succeeding are low, if success is he returns to a hehealthy weight and stays there , nearly all obese people start diet exercise regimes and either quit before they make any notable progress or balloon back up againn in the very rare cases that 5hey do succeed in any notable progress.
the reason for that is ? that they lack will power, which is the same reason they got fat in the first place, it's impossible to break free of the cycle unless they actually develop some self control? or get a gastric band, which can easily be defeated by a putting choc bars or cheese burgers in a food blender and drinking them
? how do theyget self control ? well one good way is learning to go through the pain barrier in exercise, if there doing three miles when they could really push themselves and do 6 or even 10, then they are learning self control, if they quit as soon as it uncomfortable, then there still a quiter and they will go on to fail
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OP
OP
Orion Nebula
Green Belt
Wow. Just wow. You are so misinformed that it's sad. Maybe check out what science has to say about why people regain the weight they lost (hint: will power plays only a small role, and not in the way you've described):
Why do dieters regain weight?
jobo
Grandmaster
that's just say that people with really poor will power and people with only poor will power have much the same iut comes, where as people with strong will power have much better outcomes, that probably true for most of life to be honest. but then people with strong will power wouldn't have got fat in the first place, so it's a moot point
DocWard
Purple Belt
Hogwash. I defy you to show me one thing stated by me here that would be an "excuse for failure."
Yes, and your recommendations are a recipe for disaster for anyone attempting to lose weight and get in shape based on everything I have been taught, everything I have read, my own personal experience and the experience of others I have observed. Congratulations, I've seldom seen someone so thoroughly wrong.
You mean as in make steady, sustainable modifications to their lifestyle, develop good eating habits that are not unrealistic instead of the latest Paleo-Keto-South Beach-Atkins-Zone Diet of the Week, and build up strength and endurance over time, doing something they enjoy in a supportive environment and in a manner that is unlikely to cause burn out, or worse, injury? Oh, no, of course not, you mean to do just those things that can create problems, as can be shown here:
Sure, push that six or ten miles when one is used to doing three. When the overuse injuries spring up, and they will, sit and wonder why as the conditioning gains go away and the weight piles on. Heck, who doesn't love a good stress fracture or some good old tendinitis?
If there is a bright side to this, it is that thanks to others, some good information is getting out there, and he recognizes you for the troll you are.
jobo
Grandmaster
your patting him on the head for not putting much effort in, and then throwing all the excuses, possibly excuses you use yourself, as to why he shouldn't push himself, there the excuses for his impending failure
again he is 32, he will heal quickly and improve quickly, a ten mile walk will not cause him long term injuries , they just wont, but it will speed up his fitness gain and his weight loss.
when he fails and if he carries on with the same mentality he will, then you and the others that make up his supportive network will be partly responsible, for encouraging his " I'm not putting much effort into this" attitude.
he will post his near non existent process for a short while and then disappear when his improvements do. it's happened with multiple posters over the last couple of years
its indicative of the modern world that people expect results with out putting total effort into things, then when they inevitably fail, they develop a victim mentality. and start blaming anything they can think off, except there own lack of dedication.
theres no science on gaining fitness that doesn't involve" progressive overload", with the emphasis on OVERLOAD, there little benifit in progressive underload
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JR 137
Grandmaster
Congratulations, youāve just met one of the few. And the proud
His idiocy knows no bounds. Heās the Rainman, minus the ability to count cards. Or anything else for that matter.
JR 137
Grandmaster
You point out a lot of alleged excuses. Whatās your excuse for failure of being able to communicate like a normal human being?
How much did you walk or run today? How much did you lift?
jobo
Grandmaster
Congratulations, youāve just met one of the few. And the proud
it's still mid afternoon here, im off for a 10 mile return walk to the woods, a three mile jog and a quick 30 mins work out on the assault course, it's one of my rest days, so not to heavy
what about you ?
JR 137
Grandmaster
Should be 20 mile walk, 6 mile jog, and one hour assault course. Stop making excuses.
Me? Back rehab exercises. The 12 rounds on the heavy bag or until I drop, whichever is longer. No excuses.
Regarding diet: hunger is one of the most fundamental and powerful drives for any living creature. I have trouble falling asleep at night if I'm at all hungry.
My whole life I've eaten whatever I want, however much of it I want, whenever I want. When I was a kid I used to sometimes gorge myself past reasonable limits just on general principle. I've had times in my life when I subsisted largely on junk food. These days I mostly eat healthy stuff, but I have no qualms about grabbing a dessert if I'm in the mood.
And I've been skinny for most of my life. (Sometimes well below healthy ranges - I remember one year in my late twenties when I was 6'4" and 155 pounds. It took some work to get my weight back up to 165.) As I've gotten older (from my late 40s into my 50s) I've put on some weight, but I'm still well within a healthy range.
Exercise: My first 17 years or so I spent most of my time sitting with my books. About the only regular exercise I got was walking to school. From age 18 on I've been involved with martial arts, but the quality and intensity of my training has varied greatly. I've had some years where I worked my *** off, some years where I did almost nothing, some years where my exercise regimen was moderately intense, and some years where it was consistent but mild. My strength and cardio varied significantly according to how much I was doing, but my weight didn't.
If I were to point at my friends and family members who struggle with obesity and declare that their weight was just due to a fundamental character flaw then I would be demonstrating extreme obliviousness.
Some of them who are trying to maintain a healthy diet complain that they are hungry all the time. I start to get cranky if I'm hungry for just a few hours. I can't imagine that I would do well if I had to restrain from eating while feeling that way day in and day out.
Some of them don't exercise as much as they should, but some of them do. My wife works out 1.5 - 2 hours per day 5 - 6 days per week, which is more than I'm doing at the moment. (And she does that while also dealing with the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis which include severe fatigue.) She still struggles with her weight.
I don't know all the physiological causes why maintaining a certain weight is easier or harder for different individuals. What is clear is that it can require a lot more hard work and willpower for one person to maintain a healthy weight than another.
My whole life I've eaten whatever I want, however much of it I want, whenever I want. When I was a kid I used to sometimes gorge myself past reasonable limits just on general principle. I've had times in my life when I subsisted largely on junk food. These days I mostly eat healthy stuff, but I have no qualms about grabbing a dessert if I'm in the mood.
And I've been skinny for most of my life. (Sometimes well below healthy ranges - I remember one year in my late twenties when I was 6'4" and 155 pounds. It took some work to get my weight back up to 165.) As I've gotten older (from my late 40s into my 50s) I've put on some weight, but I'm still well within a healthy range.
Exercise: My first 17 years or so I spent most of my time sitting with my books. About the only regular exercise I got was walking to school. From age 18 on I've been involved with martial arts, but the quality and intensity of my training has varied greatly. I've had some years where I worked my *** off, some years where I did almost nothing, some years where my exercise regimen was moderately intense, and some years where it was consistent but mild. My strength and cardio varied significantly according to how much I was doing, but my weight didn't.
If I were to point at my friends and family members who struggle with obesity and declare that their weight was just due to a fundamental character flaw then I would be demonstrating extreme obliviousness.
Some of them who are trying to maintain a healthy diet complain that they are hungry all the time. I start to get cranky if I'm hungry for just a few hours. I can't imagine that I would do well if I had to restrain from eating while feeling that way day in and day out.
Some of them don't exercise as much as they should, but some of them do. My wife works out 1.5 - 2 hours per day 5 - 6 days per week, which is more than I'm doing at the moment. (And she does that while also dealing with the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis which include severe fatigue.) She still struggles with her weight.
I don't know all the physiological causes why maintaining a certain weight is easier or harder for different individuals. What is clear is that it can require a lot more hard work and willpower for one person to maintain a healthy weight than another.
jobo
Grandmaster
the dog can't do the distance any more. he is 14. BA ck in theday, we would go out all day and cover an easy 20 miles or 30 off road mountain biking. so I augment it with hill sprints now.
yes youve the " till you drop " attitude that's all I'm suggesting as an exercise atttude
JR 137
Grandmaster
Lots of different physiological reasons. Hormones and the organs/glands that produce them play a big role. Thyroid seems to be a big one. There are hormones associated with hunger and satiety. People have different levels of them as well.
If someone could figure out an exact physiological formula, he/she would probably make Bill Gates look like a welfare case.
jobo
Grandmaster
I've got
I've got a formulation, eat less calories than you burn, if you travel to an impoverished country, you be suprised how few if them have thyroid problems, or it could be that they have to walk 10 miles to get clean water and cant?? send out for a take away. fatness is a first world life style issue, unless you have?? actually got a rare medical condition and even they can't turn non existent carbs in to fat
jobo
Grandmaster
eating when your hungry is what your supposed to do, I'm mean screaming belly churning hungry, the problem is people eat when there not hungry just peckish, and continue eating when they no longer are, if people really can't control their urges, until they experience hunger, then fill up on something that is high in bulk and low in calories, like veg for instance,no one ever got fat eating raw carrots, even better eat celery, which reputable consumes more calories in the digestion process than it gives..
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