Can hard work make up for lack of talent?

[Headhunter]

And otherwise MMA is about being smashed for maybe your first year. It is not like Krav. You don't drop five guys without breaking a sweat.

You fight like a dog to get an inch on one guy.

Well I've taken way more punches in Krav than I've taken in even boxing. In our Krav club we spar every week in Mma gloves and go pretty hard at times and against multiple opponents, when we grapple we have Mma gloves on and the guy on the bottom is punching us trying to stop us doing the technique and we work hard on ground and pound. So Krav Maga does do hard sparring and contact. Maybe not all places do but ours certainly does

 

[drop bear]

Well I've taken way more punches in Krav than I've taken in even boxing. In our Krav club we spar every week in Mma gloves and go pretty hard at times and against multiple opponents, when we grapple we have Mma gloves on and the guy on the bottom is punching us trying to stop us doing the technique and we work hard on ground and pound. So Krav Maga does do hard sparring and contact. Maybe not all places do but ours certainly does

The guy on the bottom is doing what now?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've never been able to figure it out, but I think people value things more when they have to work for them.

I think to some extent it's the same effect psychology studies found with kids who were praised for being smart. They tended to work less hard at tasks they might fail at, giving up rather than failing, presumably because it challenged their view of themselves as smart. Replace "smart" with "talented" and the mental task with a sport, and you would get the same effect.

 

[jobo]

Ohh...I don't know Jobo...Wild *** guess cause I don't know anything about training people.

well you cant instal talent by training someone, it must have always been there !

 

[jobo]

I think to some extent it's the same effect psychology studies found with kids who were praised for being smart. They tended to work less hard at tasks they might fail at, giving up rather than failing, presumably because it challenged their view of themselves as smart. Replace "smart" with "talented" and the mental task with a sport, and you would get the same effect.

and telling kids they are stupid ( or hopeless at sport), means they have a habit of believing you.

 

[jobo]

It factors in to a lot of talents that people interpret as magic.

So you go to MMA and you get that stronger fitter guy who has more discipline, more heart and always aggressively wins positions or wins the hard exchanges. And people suggest that is the individual.

But that can all be trained.

well sort of, most people can get better at most things, with dedication, but there is a genetic limit on how far that can work, they can only be so fast or so strong. yes you can win fights just on aggression, until you run in to a more talented fighter who is equally aggressive, then your sat on your bum.

aggression is also a genetic trait, well that or steroids

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well sort of, most people can get better at most things, with dedication, but there is a genetic limit on how far that can work, they can only be so fast or so strong. yes you can win fights just on aggression, until you run in to a more talented fighter who is equally aggressive, then your sat on your bum.

aggression is also a genetic trait, well that or steroids

What you're saying is that hard work doesn't overcome hard work and talent/genetics. But that wasn't the OP's question.

 

[dvcochran]

Thank you for this. I have noticed that there is too much new information to practice everything I learn at once.

I practice at home on a regular basis, but maybe coming up with a more organized plan of what I'm going to practice & for how long will help. So far I've just been picking whatever I have the hardest time with to practice, as opposed to basic punches that I can do easily on the bag, but have trouble applying when sparring.

Which of the three styles you are training interests you the most? Or you could ask which one seems to come the easiest to you. In the grand scheme of things, 8 months is not very long for one style, let alone 3. Starting you MA journey by mashing 3 three styles together may not be the best utilization of your time. It is entirely possible the systems could conflict with each other, especially considering you are just getting started. Find a base to build your skills on. Get proficient in one style then I think you will find your training curve will accelerate.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you are progressing at about the normal rate. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Can hard work make up for lack of talent?

Yup

 

[Danny T]

well you cant instal talent by training someone, it must have always been there !

You seem to have some difficulty comprehending some of the posts.
I did not say anything about installing talent. I did speak of some fighters who, though not gifted with talent, worked very hard and became very good fighters.

 

[jobo]

You seem to have some difficulty comprehending some of the posts.
I did not say anything about installing talent. I did speak of some fighters who, though not gifted with talent, worked very hard and became very good fighters.

no you said they had NO natural talent , now you've introduced an undefined term of " gifted "

so did they have natural talent or not, if not where did the talent they later displayed come from, ?

 

[jobo]

What you're saying is that hard work doesn't overcome hard work and talent/genetics. But that wasn't the OP's question.

that's very much the question in the thread title .?

and I'm also saying that in quit a lot of cases, talent with out hard work will over come little talent and hard work.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Which of the three styles you are training interests you the most? Or you could ask which one seems to come the easiest to you. In the grand scheme of things, 8 months is not very long for one style, let alone 3. Starting you MA journey by mashing 3 three styles together may not be the best utilization of your time. It is entirely possible the systems could conflict with each other, especially considering you are just getting started. Find a base to build your skills on. Get proficient in one style then I think you will find your training curve will accelerate.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you are progressing at about the normal rate. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

I tend to agree with this...unless they are all taught at the same facility. MMA gyms, for instance, do a good job of teaching multiple styles at the same time. I'm pretty much okay with someone starting two styles at once (it slows the start, but I think they make up that time a year or two later, and probably move a bit faster), but three separate styles seems a heavy load.

At the same time, if I had a student who was doing that and enjoying it, I'd just advise them to pick which is the "primary" art for now (they can always change it later), and focus their personal practice time there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no you said they had NO natural talent , now you've introduced an undefined term of " gifted "

so did they have natural talent or not, if not where did the talent they later displayed come from, ?

That all depends how you define talent.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

that's very much the question in the thread title .?

and I'm also saying that in quit a lot of cases, talent with out hard work will over come little talent and hard work.

No, it asks if hard work can make up for a lack of talent. It doesn't make a comparison to hard work PLUS lack of talent.

 

[Danny T]

no you said they had NO natural talent , now you've introduced an undefined term of " gifted "

so did they have natural talent or not, if not where did the talent they later displayed come from, ?

Talent; natural skill or abilities. The natural endowments or skills of a person.

Gifted; having great natural ability.

I didn't say they displayed talent. (someone not knowing them but seeing only the product of many years of training, practicing, and working very hard may think it to be talent)
I said they worked hard and became very good fighters.

Maybe 'if' you worked hard at it you will understand.

 

[jobo]

Talent; natural skill or abilities. The natural endowments or skills of a person.

Gifted; having great natural ability.

I didn't say they displayed talent. (someone not knowing them but seeing only the product of many years of training, practicing, and working very hard may think it to be talent)
I said they worked hard and became very good fighters.

Maybe 'if' you worked hard at it you will understand.

no you said they had no natural talent, that's twice iv3 had to tell you what you clearly posted. so where did the talent they later had as " good fighters" come from, ?

 

[jobo]

No, it asks if hard work can make up for a lack of talent. It doesn't make a comparison to hard work PLUS lack of talent.

what ? now your rambling

 

[Headhunter]

I wonder if there'll ever be a thread where jobo doesn't start an argument

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Talent; natural skill or abilities. The natural endowments or skills of a person.

Gifted; having great natural ability.

I didn't say they displayed talent. (someone not knowing them but seeing only the product of many years of training, practicing, and working very hard may think it to be talent)
I said they worked hard and became very good fighters.

Maybe 'if' you worked hard at it you will understand.

I'm pretty sure he's suggesting anyone who succeeds at a competitive level must have talent. Which is bollocks, but convenient for him because then none of us can give him an example that he would accept as refuting him. Either they haven't proven they can beat the talented, or they actually were talented you just failed to notice.