Can hard work make up for lack of talent?

[Sarah Mc]

@Sarah, you can work on sparring without actually sparring. It's supplemental training, not a replacement for sparring. But it's fun and worthwhile.

Can you suggest the type of supplemental training? I practice in the air alone, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Thank you!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I appreciate your experience. And I really am enjoying it - as long as I stay focused on improving myself, & not fear, which is why I posted here today. I have no intention of quitting, but sometimes the fear that I'm lacking something essential overshadows my enjoyment. I figured finally I'd just ask.

If you stick with it, that fear will come and go...but mostly it will go. You'll see (as Tony and others have said) talented people quit. You'll see talented people not work as hard. You'll start behind both of those groups, and probably pass both of them. Remember that - it's your tonic against that fear. Bring your best - whatever that is at any given time - and you'll do well.

 

[Sarah Mc]

Fortunately the OP was asking about something much more manageable, i.e. “actually being good.” As long as she’s not defining “good” as “being a top champion”, then it’s a goal achievable by almost anyone willing to put in the work.

You are correct - I'm not after being the best ever. I also didn't intend to quit if the answers today suggested that inherent ability was an essential element, but rather adjust my ideas of what I can reasonably accomplish.

For example, when I started 8 months ago, I was aware that I enjoy competition once I've become accomplished at a task. If all I could reasonably accomplish would be basic self defense, I'd rather know now.

As someone pointed out, I probably am asking myself these questions before I really know what I am capable of. But I suppose it would still be good to ask the worst case scenario.

 

[Sarah Mc]

That’s one of the best things I’ve read here in quite some time.

It's incredibly helpful, yes! I tend to overthink. That analogy made it very simple.

 

[Sarah Mc]

Although I wasn’t fully aware of it when I started training, my natural talent for martial arts was somewhere in the bottom 1% of the general population. I’ve met a few people along the way who are as naturally untalented as I am, but none I can think of who were significantly less talented.

Funny thing, it turns out that if you train hard enough and long enough at something, you eventually get halfway decent at it. After 38 years in the martial arts, I’m an above average instructor. I spar with talented guys half my age and do okay. I’ve had pro fighters come to me for coaching. I’m certainly not the best around, but I’m better than 99.9% of martial artists will ever get. Not because I have any talent, but because most people drop out and go on to something else before they get to where I am.

(I have known people with actual talent who have gotten to where I am in 1/2, 1/3, or even 1/4 the time that I took. They’re the exceptions. Most of those who had the talent to do that got bored or got frustrated or lacked the work ethic or had other priorities in life and didn’t stick with it.)

I really appreciate the specific experience you described. Thank you!

 

[Sarah Mc]

If you stick with it, that fear will come and go...but mostly it will go. You'll see (as Tony and others have said) talented people quit. You'll see talented people not work as hard. You'll start behind both of those groups, and probably pass both of them. Remember that - it's your tonic against that fear. Bring your best - whatever that is at any given time - and you'll do well.

Fear is interesting - I'm not at all afraid to take a hit or to work hard (thank goodness). It is mostly an internal issue as I interpret the meaning of what I can & cannot yet do. Putting my mind in a "I can do this" space is probably a lot of the issue.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Talented people often quit in my experience. Perseverance is key. Be patient with yourself.

 

[jobo]

That would be relevant if the OP was looking to become an Olympic champion or world-class professional fighter. It’s true that the folks at the very top of the heap are generally the ones who have natural talent and start young and work super hard for a long time and get world-class coaching and get various other lucky breaks along the way. 99.9999% of the population will never get to that level. Most of those who have the talent won’t work hard enough. Most of those who work hard enough won’t have the talent. Most of those who have the talent and the work ethic will have other roadblocks: injuries, finances, illnesses, inadequate coaching, family issues, etc which will prevent them from reaching that pinnacle of achievement.

Fortunately the OP was asking about something much more manageable, i.e. “actually being good.” As long as she’s not defining “good” as “being a top champion”, then it’s a goal achievable by almost anyone willing to put in the work.

it's a continuum, hard work still wont make up for a lack of talent, no matter were you pitch it on the scale of achievement

 

[Danny T]

There is a saying:
Hard work will beat talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

To become top level world class in anything even when talented one has to put in a lot of hard work.
That said I’ve had two fighters who though not talented have worked very hard for me and made it to the the top levels one in Bellator the other got a contract to fight in the UFC only to be injured requiring surgery. During his recovery the UFC dropped the 125 division. The thing is they didn’t have much talent but came in every day and worked harder that everyone else.

Just recently Dustin Poirier won a championship in the UFC. Though Poirier didn’t train under me he did train with two other coaches we share a lot of sparring time with. Dustin is another fighter who wasn’t naturally talented but just plain outwork everyone.

It is unusual but it does happen. The important thing is just do your best. Put forth your best to learn mentally & physically and enjoy yourself even more. You will do well.

 

[jobo]

There is a saying:
Hard work will beat talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

To become top level world class in anything even when talented one has to put in a lot of hard work.
That said I’ve had two fighters who though not talented have worked very hard for me and made it to the the top levels one in Bellator the other got a contract to fight in the UFC only to be injured requiring surgery. During his recovery the UFC dropped the 125 division. The thing is they didn’t have much talent but came in every day and worked harder that everyone else.

Just recently Dustin Poirier won a championship in the UFC. Though Poirier didn’t train under me he did train with two other coaches we share a lot of sparring time with. Dustin is another fighter who wasn’t naturally talented but just plain outwork everyone.

It is unusual but it does happen. The important thing is just do your best. Put forth your best to learn mentally & physically and enjoy yourself even more. You will do well.

how did you assess that these fighters had no natural talent.?

 

[drop bear]

Can you suggest the type of supplemental training? I practice in the air alone, but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Thank you!

Make your cardio and conditioning strong. Then when you spar wrestle or roll you can consistently be on the mat learning and progressing.

 

[JR 137]

Talented people often quit in my experience. Perseverance is key. Be patient with yourself.

I think the talented ones quit a little while after everyone catches up to them.

 

[drop bear]

it's a continuum, hard work still wont make up for a lack of talent, no matter were you pitch it on the scale of achievement

It factors in to a lot of talents that people interpret as magic.

So you go to MMA and you get that stronger fitter guy who has more discipline, more heart and always aggressively wins positions or wins the hard exchanges. And people suggest that is the individual.

But that can all be trained.

 

[drop bear]

And otherwise MMA is about being smashed for maybe your first year. It is not like Krav. You don't drop five guys without breaking a sweat.

You fight like a dog to get an inch on one guy.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I tried not to have expectations, but - while I knew I shouldn't compare myself to others - it's hard to not notice when other beginners seem at ease / are faster & more efficient than I am. That's where all of this is coming from.

If I look at the facts, it's not true that I can't learn (because I have) & the slower progress makes sense in light of what I know about my learning process. Still, I have never pursued a physical sport of any kind, so my self-knowledge doesn't include applying that to physical coordination and instincts.

It's already been stated, but pay attention and you'll see that a lot of those guys who are improving quickly and at ease either a: had previous experience, or b: will quit within a year or so.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As an aside, I seriously hope you can get good from hard work but no talent. Otherwise, I've wasted 20 years of my life, and probably quite a bit more going forwards.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

it's a continuum, hard work still wont make up for a lack of talent, no matter were you pitch it on the scale of achievement

By the same token, talent won't make up for a lack of hard work.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Yea its better to pick 1 than 3 because you gonna get confuse just stick to 1

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think the talented ones quit a little while after everyone catches up to them.

I've never been able to figure it out, but I think people value things more when they have to work for them.

 

[Danny T]

how did you assess that these fighters had no natural talent.?

Ohh...I don't know Jobo...Wild *** guess cause I don't know anything about training people.