Bullying in Schools

[Zepp]

Just to be absolutely clear, options b,c, and d in my earlier post were only listed to emphasize what I saw as the importance of looking into legal options.

I would certainly never provide him with a weapon.

Glad to hear it. (Hey, with some parents, you never know.)

 

[MA-Caver]

I would certainly never provide him with a weapon. I have my doubts about them for adults let alone kids. As the other kid is slightly stronger he´d probably take it and use it anyway. I live in a weird multicultural environment. Many other nations are moving to Southern Spain for the fantastic climate and also for other reasons. There´s a large criminal element because money can be laundered in Spanish property very easily. Some of the non-Spanish kids in schools come literally from Russian Mafia or English gangster families. They have grown up with violence as a way of life. In my son´s last school he was bullied by the English and the Russians. He is only eight now but one English boy held glass to his throat when he was 6! He won respect from two very violent Russians by kicking them in the head. For the first time it´s a Spanish boy! He has hit him back quite a few times which in the past worked but this particular boy doesn´t seem to be backing down which is a problem. There are private schools here but they don´t seem to be free from the bullying problems principally because they are full of English kids from bad backgrounds. The education is really bad in them too. Apart from the bullying problems the state education in Spain is really good. I shall just have to see how things go from day to day. My thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

If I were a parent this (the above) would concern me more than my child's education and the quality of education. You're giving us more information about the environment and each time it changes the dynamics quite a bit. Not blaming you or coming down on you for it. I understand the guarded answers/replies and you're giving a bit more insight with each passing reply/advice.
Personally, I fear no man, but again I'm not stupid or a fool. There are certian people that just don't give a damn and those are the ones not to be stupid around. I ought to know I used to hang out with those idjits.
Anyway, the concern here is for the kid and the environment he's thrust in each day (you're not doing the thrusting the Spanish school system is by not eradicating the problem). A child should not have to walk into a combat zone between each class and classes shouldn't be land mines and time-bombs.
I attended North Dallas High School during the early 80's and it was a racially diverse school. The hallways were literally combat zones each time class bells rang. I've seen bullies lie in wait outside one classroom to grab a particular target as they emerge. Scary stuff.
His life threatened when he was six... I'd been out looking for heads among the school administration were that my kid. Grr grr grr.
Your boy's karate instructor should provide an insight to how the adage "bigger they are harder they fall" line really works. Eventually he'll be able to manage (not necessarily beat) but manage bigger kids.
If your son is holding his own and isn't being distracted from his studies then again I wish him the best of luck.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I understand, but that is a totally different goal than learning to defend onself. Getting belts is nice, but if your getting your lunch money stolen, your going to have to tighten that pretty belt a bit tighter until you can figure out how to stop that from happening.

Agreed, belts only show you know the system, not that you can defend yourself. In the words of Bruce Lee, belts are only good for holding your pants up! And I reckon you should go for the BJJ as Danjo said, Karate isnt the best for this kind of thing. Unless you have a good Karate Instructor of course, who does hands on fighting, and actually has contact not like the one in my area!

Regards

 

[someguy]

Back in my day...
The way I handled bullies may or may not work. First get a friend named bubba. Well actually Monster was my big friend. It works wonders to have a person thats bigger than you around.

 

[OC Kid]

Wow, I breezed through some of the answers and was amazed at the different attitudes toward this problem.

My son had a simular problem with kids on his old soccer team. I told him to first:

Actually talk to the kid that was causing him grief. Ask him why is he picking on him. What did he do to him to cause this. What can he do to make up whatever offended him to start this. I also told my son to get the boy alone to do this. Bullies seem to like the lime light and are more reasonable alone.

If that dont work, have him talk to the teacher, elevate it to the principal. Then you do the same.

Talk to his parents

Call the police assault is assault.

If worse comes to worse no other options have him catch the boy alone and literally beat the crap out of him using any means necessary. Even if it means picking up a bat. This is survival mentality survival of the fitest. Unfortunately I seem no other peaceful means other than taking him out of that school.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Wow, I breezed through some of the answers and was amazed at the different attitudes toward this problem.

My son had a simular problem with kids on his old soccer team. I told him to first:

Actually talk to the kid that was causing him grief. Ask him why is he picking on him. What did he do to him to cause this. What can he do to make up whatever offended him to start this. I also told my son to get the boy alone to do this. Bullies seem to like the lime light and are more reasonable alone.

If that dont work, have him talk to the teacher, elevate it to the principal. Then you do the same.

Talk to his parents

I agree

Call the police assault is assault.

If worse comes to worse no other options have him catch the boy alone and literally beat the crap out of him using any means necessary. Even if it means picking up a bat. This is survival mentality survival of the fitest. Unfortunately I seem no other peaceful means other than taking him out of that school.

I agree! Theres literally nothing else you can do unless you move, and thats not really can option. I dont believe it will escalate to this though!

If Spanish police are anything like those over here, then your principle should be *&^**&^* himself if the police get involved. Means an investigation and all the boards come flying straight to the principle. Could mean he/she gets fired!

Regards

 

[Adept]

I dont think anyone here fully understands the situation, and I know I dont. So primarily, take all advice from this thread with a grain of salt.

It sounds to me like you have exhausted all non-violent options. If this is the case, then all that is left is violence.

You do not win fights by being good at martial arts. Changing him into BJJ instead of Karate will not work. You win fights by sneaking up behind the other guy, and belting him in the head with a really big rock before he knows you are there.

If violence is the only answer left (and I recommend you revisit all the non-violent options first) then making sure your actions are decisive is critical. Give your son a baseball bat, tell him to wait outside this bullies house in the morning, and when he comes out to go to school, have your son belt the ever-living crap out of him.

Okay, the above paragraph is simply hubris, to illustrate my point.

My point is that given the situation (as I uderstand it), one cannot be concerned with the niceties of social interaction. Your son needs to escalate the level and intensity of the violence, and do so before the other boy even realises its happening. He needs to hit first, and hit so hard that the bully stands no chance of hitting him back. Your son needs to put that bully in hospital. Once we make the decision to commit to violence, we should not be concerned with half measures.

 

[someguy]

There surely is another way than a base ball bat.
Find another way.
Good old ignoring him if possible.
resolve don't escalate.

 

[Sin]

Well, sadly, it appears that you only have 2 options:

1- Tell your child to do what he has to do to survive, and be prepared to accept the end results.

2- Move

IMO, I'd go with option 2.

Mike

If a samari warrior did that then hw woul have to take his own life. That is the cowardly way out.

something I learned in my life is to keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Personal opinon is that your son should gain the bullies respect, a lot of bullies are like that, if they don't respect something then they treat it like crap. Anywho one of the ways is that your Son should beat the bully up the next time the bully picks a fight, tell your son not to be afraid to go on the offensive. Please everyone reading this don't get me wrong but WE ONLY FIGHT WHEN WE MUST. and this is one of those situations. I would rather fight the guy once all out instead of him making my life a living hell until a graduated. Once you son gains his respect then your son can control the bully without anyone even knowing it. I.E. the bully trys to find someone else to pick on, your son speaks up wile the bully has his new victum(sp) in his grasp, saying things like "Dude you scared the crap outta him, come on lets get out of here" things like that eventually the bully will change his ways. i have used this tech. many times in my high school life, guys I fought with last school year are pretty good buddies of mine.

 

[someguy]

We are not Samurai or at least I am not.
Coward fine don't care. I'd rather avoid a fight who cares about my honor or what ever. It's just a word. People who know me know me.
I only fight if it is the only choice for myself or for some one who it would help.
A big friend named monster is the best solution. Bubba works too.

 

[MJS]

If a samari warrior did that then hw woul have to take his own life. That is the cowardly way out.

something I learned in my life is to keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Personal opinon is that your son should gain the bullies respect, a lot of bullies are like that, if they don't respect something then they treat it like crap. Anywho one of the ways is that your Son should beat the bully up the next time the bully picks a fight, tell your son not to be afraid to go on the offensive. Please everyone reading this don't get me wrong but WE ONLY FIGHT WHEN WE MUST. and this is one of those situations. I would rather fight the guy once all out instead of him making my life a living hell until a graduated. Once you son gains his respect then your son can control the bully without anyone even knowing it. I.E. the bully trys to find someone else to pick on, your son speaks up wile the bully has his new victum(sp) in his grasp, saying things like "Dude you scared the crap outta him, come on lets get out of here" things like that eventually the bully will change his ways. i have used this tech. many times in my high school life, guys I fought with last school year are pretty good buddies of mine.

Are you comparing a samurai of long ago, to a child of today?? I, as well as many others here, have said that fighting should be the last resort. In addition, a child should not, no matter where they live, have to go to battle every day when they go to school.

Not quite sure what you're saying with that initial statement..maybe you can clarify that for me.

It is apparent that this child has no other option but to fight. I just find it hard to believe that nobody in that country seems to care what happens to their children.

Mike

 

[MJS]

We are not Samurai or at least I am not.
Coward fine don't care. I'd rather avoid a fight who cares about my honor or what ever. It's just a word. People who know me know me.
I only fight if it is the only choice for myself or for some one who it would help.
A big friend named monster is the best solution. Bubba works too.

Well said! :asian:

Mike

 

[Sin]

If you do not have honor than you have nothing. As a child you learn to have honor or not to. I am not saying to go pick a fight but if you have to fight then do so.

not camparing a child to a samuri, only saying that to move to a new town just because of one person is EXTREAMLY cowardly.

 

[someguy]

Honor bah I have my integrity. I have my morals. Fleeing from a fight heck yeah I do that before fighting for my self. Unfortuanatly I'm not exactly world class at running so it wouldn't take much to catch me.
Moving is avoiding the conflict. There are times to crush the opponet and there are times to run.

 

[MA-Caver]

Baseball bats not-withstanding is wrong. Lying in wait is wrong. Fighting back when fought upon is honorable. Oh wait! We're not talking about honor here are we? Or aren't we?
We're not there so we don't know the entire story. All of these advice are based on speculation and assumption (including mine). Fighting back til you win does mark you in many ways.
One bully I was confronted with, I fought back and he was at the school nurse for the rest of the day til his parents picked him up. Did this leave me free and clear for the rest of the school year? No, only for about two or three weeks then someone else came up and "challenged" me. We had a lot of bullies in the school(s) I went to. There's never just ONE guy dominating the scene. There's usually one (or more) in every grade level. King of the hill mentality was what it all boiled down to. "King of the hill I got more testosterone than you do boy!"
I dunno what drunken mistress' goals for her son to grow up as. If she's like many parents, she'd want her boy to be the best man he can be. How can he do that if he resorts to such a violent act that it puts people into the hospital?
Think of the long term effects. Keep that up and he'll end up in jail and may just end up being a bully himself because he can and will kick your ***.
Defense. De-fense is (one of) the primary reason(s) we all (here) took up a Martial Art. To prevent that which would hurt us or the ones we love. Sometimes yes, the best defense is a good offense, but I don't think so in this case.
I resisted fighting for a long time at my schools. Running like hell whenever I can... even after I started studying MA. When I was trapped then I fought and fought best as I could. I lost most of them (mainly due to inexperience) and won a couple (mainly due to lucky punches/kicks/whatever!). It was a rough road for me trying to complete my growth process to being a man, but I like to think that I did complete the process, and have built up a confidence to stand up to any man who threatens me and the ones I love.
If he has to fight then fight and fight hard, fight to win. If anything it'll garner him respect from the other students, sometimes that's hard to come by.
He can do as what I did after any fight (win or lose) went to the principal and told him what happened. At least if anything it could motivate the man to do something about the violence at his school. The draw back on that action is that the other students may see him as a snitch/tattletale... that makes one VERY unpopular... as it did me for a time. I couldn't be trusted.
No one, I'm sure likes the idea of their child in a violent situation or resorting to violence. We all know it's wrong, it's uncivilized. But taking that mentality and applying it in the right context... "I am a civilized person, anyone who attacks me without provocation is uncivilized and thus must be dealt with." Convienent I'm sure.

Again I wish the boy (and his mom) luck.

 

[Zepp]

From my own experiences with peer violence in elementary school (particularly in the 3rd and 4th grades) I can tell you that you can't always look at bullies from such a rational perspective as many people on this thread do. Some kids may become bullies because they want to be hurt, as sad and crazy as that sounds. Fighting back, even if you win decisively, will not always make the bully(ies) go away. But it may cause the bully to seek revenge.

If drunken mistress's son does beat the living shiznit out of a bully, there's still a chance that that the next time, it will be the bully sneaking up behind him with a heavy rock in hand.

Looking into legal options is highly recommended here, especially based on what we've been told about the situation.

 

[MJS]

If you do not have honor than you have nothing. As a child you learn to have honor or not to. I am not saying to go pick a fight but if you have to fight then do so.

not camparing a child to a samuri, only saying that to move to a new town just because of one person is EXTREAMLY cowardly.

You seem to be missing the point here. First, while it appears that this is an isolated problem with one child picking on her son, the fact remains that the environment that this child is in is extremely violent. Go back and read some of the posts on the last few pages. You have people who should be there to learn, trying to cut peoples fingers off! IMO, you go to school to learn, not to fight. There are always going to be fights. However, as I said before, you should be getting an education, not lessons on how to survive in the hallways.

Mike

 

[DarrenJew]

Actually I don't think pride and honor are the same thing. When I think of "Honor" I feel a sense of loyalty, honesty, trustworthiness. In most cases with honor I feel I must provide a service to someone else. If someone insults you they hurt your pride not your honor, though they may do you a dishonor by the act.

As for the bully in school. What is the possibility the situation may escalate, how many children are prepared to die from a knife wound or gun shot in retaliation for beating in a fist fight? How would you feel as a parent... after teaching them how to fight... having them die because of pride. Your child may not have the choice to decide once the confrontation is made. You have to teach them to evaluate the situation... if they suspect it will move to a level they are unprepared to handle... live in shame or die with "honor". Teach them to observe their environment, stay out of situations which may lead to trouble. If the bully is waiting for them after school, maybe have them stay in a study hall or library till you have time to pick them up after school.

Sun Tzu--
"One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes be victorious, sometimes meet with defeat. One who knows neither the enemy nor himself will invariably be defeated in every engagement."

 

[OC Kid]

If you guys read my post I laid it out to where fighting and doing it decisively was the only option left other than taking him out of that school.

Bullies for one prey on what they percieve is the weak. They usually have friends and its there friends that they are showing off for. That is why I suggested that the boy go and talk to the bully first, get the bully alone so his friends arent there to influence him. Then talk to parents and teachers ect.

But if it has to boil down to a physical altercation the boy has to do such a number on the bully that his friends will leave him alone. Some times one fight is all it takes to get a reputation.

I remember this guy in high school "Willie" nicest quietess,polite guy in the school. he had a rep. " Dont mess with Willie". It came from one altercation in something 7th grade 3 years earlier.

As far as using the bat. That was meant as a metaphor so to speak meaning use what ever means necessary to win.

To tell a bully I will meet you in the handball courts after school and expect a fair fight...
You think that you go to a bully bow to each other get into fighting stance and someone screams "hajime" no way

He'll be there with all his buddies and they may blind side him. Do what ever they to . After all the boy is their "Entertainment" plain and simple.

Remember "Mr. Myagi" "Myagi hate fighting..someone always getting hurt"

Dude I know people who were in the bathroom sitting on the throne and some guys kicked the door open and beat the snot out of them..guys who were getting books out of their lockers and someone slammed the door on their head/hands from behind and got the snot beat out of them. Guy in the locker room getting dressed after gym class and a bully with a bunch of his freind block him in the isle between locker naked and beat the snot out of them.

Never fight a bully on his terms. Fight to win, fight to survive. If the boy takes the bully out hard fast and quick.

The only thing some people understand is pain. So as a last resort, a very last resort when all options have run out.. You have no choice but to defend your self in any means possible.

 

[Sin]

You seem to be missing the point here. First, while it appears that this is an isolated problem with one child picking on her son, the fact remains that the environment that this child is in is extremely violent. Go back and read some of the posts on the last few pages. You have people who should be there to learn, trying to cut peoples fingers off! IMO, you go to school to learn, not to fight. There are always going to be fights. However, as I said before, you should be getting an education, not lessons on how to survive in the hallways.

Mike

I understand and agree with you that you shouldn't have to watch your back at school and learn to survive because your studies are VERY important and being in school myself I know this. But If I told my parents that we should move or change schools every time I ran into a bully, they would laugh at me. now my parents are very loving people and they only want the best for me, but there is nothing they can do besides talk to the principal and/or the childs parent(s). Outside of that its all up to me. I have had many problems with a bully, but if you run the bully has more fun, and also has bragging rights to his fellow bully friends, and thats just going to make things worse for you.

What i am saying is that you should fight if you must, never turn your back to a potental threat. And always use the least force necessary to disable your opponet/attacker. Honor will come from this.