My son slowly losing interest in competition and sports MA.

[jasonbrinn]

Start a new topic if you want to keep on about Budo.

Start a new topic if you want to talk about me, otherwise don't critique how you "feel" my post addresses the subject or not. My thoughts are not subject to your understanding of them, or lack thereof.

I responded to the post, you tried and failed to make a backhanded attack at my personal character. When asked about the attack you tucked tail and started talking once again about the post. In short, you fail so troll along.

Why can't people just be nice?

 

[lklawson]

If I was going to make an "attack on [your] character" I'd be a little more forward about it. Probably link to your posts.

Look, I tried to be circumspect but I'm going to have to be blunt. If you want to keep stinking up this thread with petty chest thumping, irrelevancies, and romanticized misconceptions, you're going to do it without me. I'm not participating in further sidetracking this thread.

 

[Happy-Papi]

If one is not interested in Budo then they should more appropriately train boxing, wrestling or the walking stick.

I never said "Just add Budo" rather I said much more but when one skims topics Kirk they never get the real truth (just saying).

Dear Jason,

My honest answer to this is since my training was only very limited to our humble military CQC-FMA, and since I am a Filipino, I can only teach within the limitations of my small knowledge and that is why I encourage my son to learn other martial skills. My son being a half Filipino-Japanese, I passed him his Filipino roots through CQC-FMA but he has to learn his Japanese roots by himself since I cannot provide it for him. Most of my main teachers are or were military high ranking martial artists from different arts basically coming from Japanese Arts, Chinese Arts, Boxing, Silat, Philippine Kuntaw and traditional FMA but our main is CQC-FMA which we use for work. Just like the Israelis use Krav Maga and Russians use Systema... Yes I had a bit of training in boxing, wrestling and grappling, I am also trained in sticks and canes but my main love are knives, swords and firearms. Naturally I have passed him some boxing, wrestling and the walking stick since they are parts of CQC-FMA too but loves blades more. It will be hard for him to train in those studies/skills alone since he started from CQC-FMA. Yes he can learn whatever he likes but since I came from a fighting family (back from my grandpa, to my father, to my brothers and now to my son), he is just following our tradition. We are both nationalists and patriots and tend to follow our roots and now he has to follow his Japanese roots.

I believe that my son's school belongs to one of Japan's strong Karate schools since they have been producing very good students and lots of champions. As a father, I want my son to get the best training possible and to learn more of the "Japanese Budo Way". Based on what I know, Japanese higher ranking MAist are proud, nationalistic and doesn't easily accept other higher ranking MAist from another art especially coming from a foreign country unless they will study their arts. But in my case, I was instantly given a position of weapons instructor to their higher rankers after seeing me and my son playing with sticks, knives and CQC. They said that my humble skills are beneficial for them and can easily be adopted and mixed to their art. I also got comments that my ways are very old Budo though I came from another country and I don't even consider myself as a true Budo practitioner? I wonder why me and my son can easily go around to dojos and make many friends especially with higher rankers??? Maybe because we don't violate their ways and their arts or maybe we all have something very much in common???

I founded an art with one of its primary goals to completely strip my training from its cultural, religious and political trappings.

WoW! You must be a very good teacher and a very skilled martial artist. I hope that we can see videos of you and your students in training.

Peace and many thanks!

 

[Cyriacus]

Start a new topic if you want to talk about me, otherwise don't critique how you "feel" my post addresses the subject or not. My thoughts are not subject to your understanding of them, or lack thereof.

I responded to the post, you tried and failed to make a backhanded attack at my personal character. When asked about the attack you tucked tail and started talking once again about the post. In short, you fail so troll along.

Why can't people just be nice?

Life would be much less fun if noone had the nerve to tell someone else they disapprove of something theyve said.
Life would also be much less fun if everyone was nice.

Also, you may not have noticed this, but...
Lemme break it down.

Kirk said:
"Maybe he doesn't give a crap about "Budo" which tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway?

To be honest, your suggestion of "Just add Budo" doesn't actually address the man's question about whether or not he should force his son into martial arts competitions. It's actually a distraction from the topic."

You replied with:
"I never said "Just add Budo" rather I said much more but when one skims topics Kirk they never get the real truth (just saying)."

Kirk replied:
"Seriously, throwing "Budo" into this discussion is not only irrelevant but it actually distracts from the point. It is, at best, a distraction and, at worst, trolling. I'm, personally, hoping for the former rather than the latter."

To which you said:
"You assume too much once again Kirk."
Followed by,
"Thank God you are not the decider of what is relevant or not."

So Kirk said:
"Start a new topic if you want to keep on about Budo."

Then you came back with:
"My thoughts are not subject to your understanding of them, or lack thereof."
And;
"I responded to the post, you tried and failed to make a backhanded attack at my personal character. When asked about the attack you tucked tail and started talking once again about the post. In short, you fail so troll along."

---

Mate, youre the one making this personal, and whether you realize it or not youre provoking each other.
Take a word of advice from your own post:
"The modern budo has no external enemy, only the internal enemy, one's ego that must be fought."
Now go be a budo master and acknowledge that someone doesnt agree with your viewpoint.

And before you try and say that youre okay with having different opinions,
"My thoughts are not subject to your understanding of them, or lack thereof."

 

[jasonbrinn]

Life would be much less fun if noone had the nerve to tell someone else they disapprove of something theyve said.
Life would also be much less fun if everyone was nice....

And before you try and say that youre okay with having different opinions,
"My thoughts are not subject to your understanding of them, or lack thereof."

I appreciate where you are coming from I do. This is really me being sick and tired of people like Kirk pointing to crap spread on the internet about me falsely from over 2 years ago. He attacked me off the bat with the "irony" bit suggesting that I am not an honest person based on stuff he has read online. Then in PM conversations he confirmed this whole bit and suggested googling me was an easy way to know something about me. Truth be told I am overly sensitive to internet tough guys and self thought know-it-alls that support them when it is convenient. Sorry, but I lost my cool.

My post to the OP was not essentially about Budo even though I used it as a reference. It was really about martial arts being more than a good way to kick the crap out of people. Yes I believe that what one trains should be functional but if we are going for that only then why not just use firearms. Martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than fighting. More than competing, and I hoped this father and son could explore those things.

Thanks again.

 

[Cyriacus]

I appreciate where you are coming from I do. This is really me being sick and tired of people like Kirk pointing to crap spread on the internet about me falsely from over 2 years ago. He attacked me off the bat with the "irony" bit suggesting that I am not an honest person based on stuff he has read online. Then in PM conversations he confirmed this whole bit and suggested googling me was an easy way to know something about me. Truth be told I am overly sensitive to internet tough guys and self thought know-it-alls that support them when it is convenient. Sorry, but I lost my cool.

My post to the OP was not essentially about Budo even though I used it as a reference. It was really about martial arts being more than a good way to kick the crap out of people. Yes I believe that what one trains should be functional but if we are going for that only then why not just use firearms. Martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than fighting. More than competing, and I hoped this father and son could explore those things.

Thanks again.

For what its worth, i had no idea about any information about you online. In a way, that sort of worsens you position in this thread.

MartialTalk has an ignore feature. If you take issue to Lawson, or anyone else, just ignore them. And its not sticking your fingers in your ears or anything else derogatory, its just choosing not to mingle with everyone.

Besides: "The modern budo has no external enemy, only the internal enemy, one's ego that must be fought."
You dont have to prove yourself here. You dont need to defend your views. But youre gonna get called out on things you state or declare in any form of public discussion, and sometimes youre not going to enjoy having your views interrogated, especially if you have something against whoevers doing it.

In your original reply, you came across ALOT differently to what youre telling me you meant to say now. My advice is to just accept that, and make a revised version of your original reply. Or just leave it. Its up to you.

 

[Happy-Papi]

My post to the OP was not essentially about Budo even though I used it as a reference. It was really about martial arts being more than a good way to kick the crap out of people. Yes I believe that what one trains should be functional but if we are going for that only then why not just use firearms. Martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than fighting. More than competing, and I hoped this father and son could explore those things.

Thanks again.

Dear Jason,

First, we are very peaceful and we don't kick the crap out of people. Yes our skills can be very offensive and I wont deny it but is intended for a much-much higher cause than just bashing heads with punks... Yes our skills are basically designed for real combat but I'm sure that there are many Senior MAist here in MT who practices similar aggressive techniques as good MAist all have dangerously aggressive techniques somewhere hidden. The only difference with ours is that we start our training using weapons and extreme aggressiveness and then mellow down. This is very common especially in FMA.

About "why not just use firearms instead of using MA"??? Based on my experiences and training, there are times that simple weapons and even just hand to hand can be equal or even more effective than using firearms depending on proper application. FMA, Japanese arts, Chinese arts, Krav Maga, Sytema, TKD, BBJ, MMA, etc. and all martial arts knows about this. I'm sure that the art that you have founded have techniques for this same situation too. Naturally MAist who has limited skills may not share with our idea... Just look at Chinese Martial Arts... some have very peaceful, slow, dance-like movements but deep within are deadly techniques that are hidden in plain sight. In reality, those nice smiling grandmas and grandpops practicing at the park are peaceful but deadly living weapons and probably just don't have use for firearms.

Actually there is one technique that was in our video when my son gave me the knife attack and I simply used my thumb to control him and he couldn't do anything. That shows that how one finger can effectively control an assailant. That technique is basically designed for effectively eliminating the threat within a very short time but with proper use of the technique, it can be used for a more peaceful way but with maximum results. I am a heavy user of pressure point combat both for control and attack and though it may look aggressive, I use it more for control. Firearms are good but there are times that even the lowly finger can do the job. Plus it is illegal for us to have firearms in Japan.

Yes martial arts have always been more than just fighting, it's part of our tradition, culture and a way of living...

And as always, many thanks!

 

[lklawson]

I appreciate where you are coming from I do. This is really me being sick and tired of people like Kirk pointing to crap spread on the internet about me falsely from over 2 years ago. He attacked me off the bat with the "irony" bit suggesting that I am not an honest person based on stuff he has read online. Then in PM conversations he confirmed this whole bit and suggested googling me was an easy way to know something about me.

In a word: bullpucky.

You PMed,

"Would you care to explain your comment sir? How was what I replied ironic?"
​

I replied

"Our disagreements have been public and shouldn't leave much to guesswork."​

You then replied:

"Please forgive me if I don't remember some random interwebs squabble with someone I have never even met.
If you are trying to suggest by your statement that I in some way am not an honest person then please have the base standard of presenting how you have come to such a conclusion.
If you don't care to backup your digital feints then please refrain and cross swords with someone who takes character smears lightly.
If you are a man like I think you are then lets have this out here and a squash it, we are both much bigger than this."
​

To which I replied:

"Sorry pal. Don't feel like going over it again.
I applaud your subtle implications about my manhood and my low importance, though. "
​

It's all in my inbox and sent-items and Mods can verify and I hereby grant permission to any party to view those 4 PMs to verify or I can post screenshots or something. So stop playing the frick'n wounded victim. I said that I wasn't going to spar with you through PM and I meant it. That doesn't mean that you can just make up crap about what I wrote, particularly since, well, it's automatically saved.

Truth be told I am overly sensitive to internet tough guys and self thought know-it-alls that support them when it is convenient.

...and have distorted memory.

Sorry, but I lost my cool.

And made stuff up. And now the various readers who are interested (presumably because they're masochistic) know what "irony" means.

My post to the OP was not essentially about Budo even though I used it as a reference. It was really about martial arts being more than a good way to kick the crap out of people. Yes I believe that what one trains should be functional but if we are going for that only then why not just use firearms.

Which, as I have pointed out multiple times, doesn't answer the OP's question.

Martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than fighting.

Umm... NO THEY HAVEN'T. Martial Arts ALWAYS started out about hurting people and breaking their toys. That's what Martial Arts are for originally. It is only because of advances in technology and society that we have the option to expand martial arts into a recreation or personal growth opportunity. Heck, even in Japan martial arts were about hurting people all the way up until the Shoganate enforced a peace and Samurai were then able to explore other possibilities. That's when you start to see a treatises on Bushido as a near culture unto itself.

If we believe the oral history of Shaolin, we find that Siddhartha took Indian fighting arts and altered their purpose in order for the Monks to get exercise so they could endure the rigors of monastic devotion.

And don't even get me started on martial arts from Indonesia or the many Occidental based arts; most of which were always intended to be about hurting the opponent.

So, no, when the claim is made that, "martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than fighting," it's just not true.

 

[lklawson]

First, we are very peaceful and we don't kick the crap out of people. Yes our skills can be very offensive and I wont deny it but is intended for a much-much higher cause than just bashing heads with punks... Yes our skills are basically designed for real combat but I'm sure that there are many Senior MAist here in MT who practices similar aggressive techniques as good MAist all have dangerously aggressive techniques somewhere hidden. The only difference with ours is that we start our training using weapons and extreme aggressiveness and then mellow down. This is very common especially in FMA.

I always appreciated that approach in FMA. It always struck me as sort of a training paradigm which allows that one has to have the deadly, aggressive, martial skills first. Once that is mastered, then can the artist choose to moderate their response because only then does he have the skills to do so without endangering himself.

It reminds me of an old Spanish knife fighting custom. It was considered the greatest of insults to scar an opponent's face. This is because your just so much better than him that you can choose to scar him in a very specific area, visible to everyone, instead of being forced to kill him.

About "why not just use firearms instead of using MA"??? Based on my experiences and training, there are times that simple weapons and even just hand to hand can be equal or even more effective than using firearms depending on proper application.

Well, that and the fact that firearms are always available, or even legal, everywhere. You're currently in Japan, right? Civilian access to firearms is very restricted there, right? Can't carry one in Japan, can ya. Further, there are times that firearms are not necessarily the best option. They make noise and draw attention, which may be bad for what you're trying to accomplish. Then there's what us firearms enthusiasts call "The Tueller Drill." Sometimes it's just hard to get a firearm into action and you'd better have a back up plan or at least be able to do "something else until" which allows you to deploy your firearm.

Yes martial arts have always been more than just fighting, it's part of our tradition, culture and a way of living...

I'm not sure those two things are mutually exclusive.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Grenadier]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep this discussion civil, and on-topic. If you do not like what someone consistently says, then use the ignore feature that is part of the vBulletin software.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Assistant Administrator

 

[Happy-Papi]

I always appreciated that approach in FMA. It always struck me as sort of a training paradigm which allows that one has to have the deadly, aggressive, martial skills first. Once that is mastered, then can the artist choose to moderate their response because only then does he have the skills to do so without endangering himself.

My first two FMA teacher were grandpops who gave their share in WW2. They said that during the war, they get lessons from a the town's "Bastonero" (one who is good fighting with a cane) or with people who are good fighting with knives and bolos. Since that was a time of war, the lessons they got was more on hack and run. They were taught hand to hand combat skills that were to be used as a last option. Their main purpose was to bring home some of the enemies weapons, get supplies and food and do some damage to the enemies. Techniques taught to them are simple and straightforward. They said that the only time they got to study FMA deeper was after the war. They said that they didn't have the luxury of mastering their skills to the fullest because it was more of "pick up your weapon, train a bit and go and if they get lucky, then they can train some more"... Maybe this is why FMA teaches weapons first before unarmed combat.

Well, that and the fact that firearms are always available, or even legal, everywhere. You're currently in Japan, right? Civilian access to firearms is very restricted there, right? Can't carry one in Japan, can ya. Further, there are times that firearms are not necessarily the best option. They make noise and draw attention, which may be bad for what you're trying to accomplish. Then there's what us firearms enthusiasts call "The Tueller Drill." Sometimes it's just hard to get a firearm into action and you'd better have a back up plan or at least be able to do "something else until" which allows you to deploy your firearm.

Yes we don't have the luxury to own firearms in Japan and my study in firearms and CQC-FMA are basically useless here. The only time I can touch firearms is when I go to the Philippines for a vacation. Yes I agree that there are times when firearms are not necessary. Noisy, bulky, and can be expensive. As of now, I'll just stick with the "something else until"

Yes martial arts have always been more than just fighting, it's part of our tradition, culture and a way of living...
I'm not sure those two things are mutually exclusive.

This only applies to my family I guess. It's like my family's tradition, granpop fought, dad fought, I shared, my brothers are now fighting and my son stands as a reserve (he wont see action though...). About culture, My first and second wife freaked out when they visited my country because I was surrounded by "funky happy people" and weird faces keeps popping up unannounced... Very hard to explain sorry. Probably not culture but by group... but now I'm sweet as sugar, lol.

 

[superkizuna]

papi-sensei,

Your son is a warrior. He clearly understands martial arts. Him defending weaker kids getting bullied is beautiful. One of the ultimate expressions of martial arts; I can not express that enough!!!! In his youth he understands what most of these upstart, stuffy, text-book, dojo (dojang), 'masters' will never learn because it (martial disciplines) are more than technique and a bunch of drama on a forum! He didn't tell you directly about his fights in the streets because he respects what you have taught him and the truth of it. He may be new to karate but understanding skirts time, does it not Tell him to honor you and his style in competition and that may buy you some time Papi-san Good Luck. I walked a similar path to your son. I think if he finds a rival or a peer to have real competition with it will become interesting to him.

Recently I saw some signs that my son is slowly losing interest in competition and sports MA. He is 16 and have a black belt in Judo and and two black belts from me on CQC-FMA and is now doing Karate (full contact). Before he often joins competitions but nowadays seems to be passing a lot on the compes. He still goes from dojo to dojo to have fun but doesn't compete. I had a long talk with him and found out that he is skipping tournaments because he finds the rules restrictive and are not much useful for street fighting. He has been in several street fights and based on the reports that I got from his buddies and some from his school teachers that he really was effective but a bit brutal. Got a report from his friend how he pinned 3 older teens who were asking money (bullying) and how he sent them all crashing to the ground while being twisted. I also heard how he covered for a young girl who were being followed by two mature pervs and made their faces plow the ground. My son doesn't like talking about his fun experiences maybe because I'm his dad and he really hates bragging but since we are frequently visited by his friends, I do get reports from them. There are quite a bit but one of my favorite was when a group of older/larger punks came to our house to bully him on a fight. All 4 got their behind thrown to the creek beside my house and so were their bicycles. It was quite a high fall and must have been painful. Got several reports but since most of them were just stupid boys fights and he never really injures them so I think there was no big problem. I've heard that he never punches (so that he cannot be blamed on punching, sneaky cheat) but grabs them like CQC ala Crav Maga style and goes more on chokes, throws, locks and submission.

I don't doubt his skills on MA's point of view and as his senior but losing interest on competition is another thing. I'm a supporting instructor at his karate dojo and if he stops competing that will not be good. I think that he is one of the schools assets because he is a heavy hitter and really goes head to head with the black belts and brought home a trophy on full contact belt ignored compe and he is still a newbie. He is still very new to Karate (green belt) but have been promoted really fast and soon be promoted to brown. Since the white belt he seems to be a favorite of the instructors and were frequently sparring with them full contact. Fellow instructors said that he is a heavy hitter, brutal, skilled and doesn't mind receiving heavy hits unlike most of the kids nowadays. And because of his skills in Judo and CQC-FMA they can toss him around or get tossed without worrying if he'll get injured. To be honest he is really fun and a bit scary to spar with especially if there are not too many rules, the more less rules the more he shines.

Maybe the cause of the problem is that I've taught him military CQC-FMA when he was very young where we don't have many rules. Probably it is an irreversible process and I can't do much about it but I still would like him to go back to compete. His main love is CQC-FMA but I really like him to study more and compete more. He said last night that he wanted to go back training with me again but I'm really getting slow, fat and old and though it was ok for me to be his punching dummy before, he is a lot bigger, faster, and kicks like a mule especially those low Karate kicks, man they are painful! I'm thinking of doing it less contact to protect my skin because I really know that I'm obsolete but I'm sure he'll be expecting more from me which I think I'm really too old for. I'm thinking of ways to get him interested to go back in competition but I'm losing options. Though experienced he is still a kid (teenager) and it's really hard to read kids nowadays. If I push, maybe he'll freak out just like what kids do when parents pushes them???
Any help or suggestions would be nice especially coming from MA fathers.

By the way, he spends more time helping at a nearby nursery school (he really loves kids) than the dojos??? He wants to be a nursery teacher he said... I want him to be a policeman or join the military but... crazy ey!

 

[superkizuna]

No, you have no understanding of budo from your comment. You have no idea what a thug is. His an anti-bully. He just sees no honor in competition. Why do people with your opinion think that martial disciplines are only theory for debate? If you saw a person getting assaulted in the alley what would you do? Walk away and blog on martial talk about how you struck a blow for budo by mentally imagining what you 'could' do but didn't? That is not strength.

Ok Happy-Papi - I want you to know that I am a VERY honest person and that I mean no harm in my words although they might come across harsh. Just know that what I am about to write I do so in love and respect.

When I read this at first I thought it was a joke (troll job) and I am still HOPING that it is. Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...??? What he is doing is not something to be respected it is something that I would hope would be strongly addressed. In all of that training he has had didn't anyone ever teach him how NOT to get into a fight. He is lucky he hasnt killed anyone yet or seriously injured someone or even run into the "wrong" person yet. I pray you will think this over. It is a very poor representation of what martial arts should be about (coming from an old dinosaur RBSD guy). It sounds like his training has turned him into a honest thug.

But there is hope. It seems like he wants to spend time and connect on another level with his father in a search for something more than becoming a death dealing fighting machine (thank God!). Its cool he like teaching kids, I know of few things more worthwhile or rewarding. Please just train with your son and enjoy each other and think of ways to take your training and do something positive through the lessons learned form it besides fighting and acting like hooligans.

Sincerely,

Jason Brinn