Belt Rank Progress

[Dirty Dog]

If your instructors don't let people test until they're ready, than why even test them in the first place? If your instructors know that a student is ready than they can promote them right then and there and a test wouldn't be necessary.

We test them for a number of reasons.
The "test" gives them a chance to show off for family and friends.
The "test" lets them show the other students (who, especially at lower ranks, are focused on their OWN performance) their progress.
The "test" puts them in front of the group, which puts a new and different level of stress on the student.
Testing is fun.
I bet you can think of a few other obvious reasons on your own...

 

[TKDTony2179]

Usually the Junior year is the hardest and that's the year when students start applying for college. Although I don't personally know of anybody doing this, I've heard stories of people taking only English and Gym during their senior years. And a senior in high school is hardly a youngster, but that's beside the point.

Yea, I knew some students while back in high school would have enough credit to graduate and they was already taken college course. Not everyone is that good.

The rank under my black belt is red belt and below that is our brown. I would think regardless of color that what ever the requirments at that level should be addressed and if practice your techinques and get those requirements down in 3-4 months then when time for testing is brought up you should know that you are ready. If you hare having trouble ask an instructor or the head instructor so you can fix it. If not, then test. The instructor should know you are ready for the black belt when he passes you. The myth thing sounds crazy because yes he/she should know if you are ready and say you may test but wait for he/she to say you may test is crazy to me.

If the curriculm is right and the months feel right then yes you should test on your own when testing time comes about. Also the myth thing sounds like something that pleagues the martial arts. Like they are holding on to something to prevent you from succeeding. That is just my opinion.

 

[TKDTony2179]

It still bemuses me that black belts and other advanced ranks are expected to be teachers.

Martial arts are a specific skill. Teaching is a different skill which (typically) requires instruction to learn. An effective teacher of martial arts must have two skill sets: Martial arts and Teaching.

If I were to go enroll in a Welding school, would I be expected to teach Welding to less experienced students?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I would agree on that. Although you have learn something, getting it across properly is harder than what it seem. Especially certain age groups. I always suggest to new instructors to tutor first and help out in class so they will see how the head teacher does things so they will learn what say that allow them to be good teachers.

 

[RTKDCMB]

It still bemuses me that black belts and other advanced ranks are expected to be teachers.


Martial arts are a specific skill. Teaching is a different skill which (typically) requires instruction to learn. An effective teacher of martial arts must have two skill sets: Martial arts and Teaching.


Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Martial arts are voluntary, a black belt may be expected to teach but they have a choice. Not everybody is cut out to be an instructor and not everybody wants to be.

 

[EddieCyrax]

You must have some very long grading nights.

My Green Belt test lasted 4 hours, with this being the beginning of Brown......

 

[EddieCyrax]

Tests identify areas of deficiency in the student. How well does the student know the material, How well do they know the material under pressure, how well do they know the material when they are tired, etc.

Tests assist in the learning process. Even if there were no belt colors, I would still see tests as a valuable tool in one's training.

Just my $.02

 

[PhotonGuy]

We've all seen black belts who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and we've all seen white belts who step on the mat already a handful. Skill is more important than the color of the obi. I stopped caring about about belts at some point. To the point that I'd kinda opted to be a "professional brown belt" ...that is, until, the one of the instructors at that dojo got tired of it and I got an "ambush test."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yes I agree that belt color can be sometimes over-rated just like grades in academics (A,B,C,D,F) can also be over-rated. I believe that the belt color that the student wears should be the result of the student's skill level and abilities, not the other way around. To say that a student is good because they wear a particular belt color would be putting the cart before the horse. While I do think some people can get over obsessed with belt color just like some people can get over obsessed with academic grades I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting to get a certain belt color just like there is nothing wrong with wanting to get a certain GPA. Some people are obsessed with getting straight As in academics and while as I said before, grades can be overrated, there is nothing wrong with wanting to get As. There is also nothing wrong with wanting to get a black belt. Getting a black belt is just like getting an A except that a black belt is for martial arts and an A is for academics. Aside from that there is no difference.

 

[WaterGal]

It still bemuses me that black belts and other advanced ranks are expected to be teachers.

Martial arts are a specific skill. Teaching is a different skill which (typically) requires instruction to learn. An effective teacher of martial arts must have two skill sets: Martial arts and Teaching.

If I were to go enroll in a Welding school, would I be expected to teach Welding to less experienced students?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Agreed. Having a black belt alone definitely doesn't qualify you to be a teacher. It's one thing to know how to do a technique, and another thing entirely to break it down and explain it clearly and effectively. Not to mention running a class, presenting with authority and keep the students active and engaged. Those are whole other skill sets that have to be learned.

I do think that martial arts can be a good place for people to learn how to be teachers and leaders, though, if they wish. If you know how to do the techniques, then you can assist your teacher (warming up the class, helping a student with their new form, etc), and gradually take on more responsibility as you build your teaching and leading skills. And I think that's a really valuable skill for people, especially young people getting ready to enter the workforce, to learn.

But just throwing someone in after their dan test and expecting them to run a class by themself is not a good way to ensure good teaching at your school.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Agreed. Having a black belt alone definitely doesn't qualify you to be a teacher. It's one thing to know how to do a technique, and another thing entirely to break it down and explain it clearly and effectively. Not to mention running a class, presenting with authority and keep the students active and engaged. Those are whole other skill sets that have to be learned.

I do think that martial arts can be a good place for people to learn how to be teachers and leaders, though, if they wish. If you know how to do the techniques, then you can assist your teacher (warming up the class, helping a student with their new form, etc), and gradually take on more responsibility as you build your teaching and leading skills. And I think that's a really valuable skill for people, especially young people getting ready to enter the workforce, to learn.

But just throwing someone in after their dan test and expecting them to run a class by themself is not a good way to ensure good teaching at your school.

This became the norm at a place I used to train. GM was burned out and stopped hiring actual instructors. Worst part is that they were all under eighteen.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Agreed. Having a black belt alone definitely doesn't qualify you to be a teacher. It's one thing to know how to do a technique, and another thing entirely to break it down and explain it clearly and effectively. Not to mention running a class, presenting with authority and keep the students active and engaged. Those are whole other skill sets that have to be learned.

I do think that martial arts can be a good place for people to learn how to be teachers and leaders, though, if they wish. If you know how to do the techniques, then you can assist your teacher (warming up the class, helping a student with their new form, etc), and gradually take on more responsibility as you build your teaching and leading skills. And I think that's a really valuable skill for people, especially young people getting ready to enter the workforce, to learn.

But just throwing someone in after their dan test and expecting them to run a class by themself is not a good way to ensure good teaching at your school.

That's why you start out as an assistant instructor. You have to be an assistant instructor before you can be the head instructor of a class. A new black belt might not be at the level where they can lead a class but I see no reason why a black belt can't be an assistant instructor. At my dojo you're sometimes expected to do some assistant teaching when you're a brown belt.

 

[RTKDCMB]

We've all seen black belts who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag

Like these guys:

 

[RTKDCMB]

Agreed. Having a black belt alone definitely doesn't qualify you to be a teacher. It's one thing to know how to do a technique, and another thing entirely to break it down and explain it clearly and effectively. Not to mention running a class, presenting with authority and keep the students active and engaged. Those are whole other skill sets that have to be learned.

Some people are good at teaching others, some are good at building a school, some have good skill and knowledge and some have good character.

A person can have good knowledge and skill, be good at building a school and good at teaching others and be a complete meat head and some can have good knowledge and skill and good character and still not be good a teaching.

 

[MJS]

No, the student signs up when they feel they're ready. Its the student who takes the test at his or her own discretion. Of course, just because a student thinks they're ready doesn't mean they are ready and if that's the case than it will show in the test and they wont pass.

IMHO, that is a poor policy to have. Why? Because during my years teaching, I've had more than one student come up to me, and ask to learn more, after supposedly learning what I had just taught them, only to watch them perform, and well, to be blunt, they sucked! Sorry, but I couldn't feel good about myself, if I allow someone to test, when they're really not ready.

 

[MJS]

Yes I agree that belt color can be sometimes over-rated just like grades in academics (A,B,C,D,F) can also be over-rated. I believe that the belt color that the student wears should be the result of the student's skill level and abilities, not the other way around. To say that a student is good because they wear a particular belt color would be putting the cart before the horse. While I do think some people can get over obsessed with belt color just like some people can get over obsessed with academic grades I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting to get a certain belt color just like there is nothing wrong with wanting to get a certain GPA. Some people are obsessed with getting straight As in academics and while as I said before, grades can be overrated, there is nothing wrong with wanting to get As. There is also nothing wrong with wanting to get a black belt. Getting a black belt is just like getting an A except that a black belt is for martial arts and an A is for academics. Aside from that there is no difference.

Of course, the difference is, out of all those people who 'want' to get a certain GPA or certain belt, how many actually apply themselves, and really bust their *** both in and out of the dojo? Yes, I understand we all have lives outside of the dojo. However, if the only time you actually do any practice, is during class, well...the results are going to speak for themselves.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Of course, the difference is, out of all those people who 'want' to get a certain GPA or certain belt, how many actually apply themselves, and really bust their *** both in and out of the dojo? Yes, I understand we all have lives outside of the dojo. However, if the only time you actually do any practice, is during class, well...the results are going to speak for themselves.

That is why lots of your training you do at home or on your own outside of class. At this point, as a matter of fact, I would say most of my training I do on my own and not at the dojo.

 

[MJS]

That is why lots of your training you do at home or on your own outside of class. At this point, as a matter of fact, I would say most of my training I do on my own and not at the dojo.

My point was...everyone wants something, but if they don't put in the time and effort, aka: the blood, sweat and tears, then no, they won't get it. If someone trains in and out of class, the odds are higher for those people vs. the ones that only train in class, never train much outside of class, and rarely show up to class.

 

[KELLYG]

A couple of thought on testing. Where I train the black belt test is an event. It is a physical test that lasts anywhere from 3 to 7 hours, and is a one day event. Testing from high red to black, all the poomse, blocking, kicking, techniques are gone over as well as endurance, breaking, sparing with a single opponent or multiple opponents. The test is designed to add pressure, mental exhaustion, and physical exhaustion. Some times it is not about what you know, but how it is used while the pressure is on. I have seen people that I thought would never pass excell and I have seen people that I thought would pass, hands down no problem, give up on themselves or crumble under pressure. These tests are given from first to third degree blackbelts. The higher belt testing is more of a demonstration...

 

[PhotonGuy]

My point was...everyone wants something, but if they don't put in the time and effort, aka: the blood, sweat and tears, then no, they won't get it. If someone trains in and out of class, the odds are higher for those people vs. the ones that only train in class, never train much outside of class, and rarely show up to class.

Yes, you're right that you do need to work hard to get what you want be it in the martial arts or anything else. However, you also have to know what you're doing and make sure you're working the right way. You don't want to work hard at doing things the wrong way, if you do you will only get better at doing it the wrong way. You do need to train hard but you need more than that, you also need to train smart.

 

[PhotonGuy]

IMHO, that is a poor policy to have. Why? Because during my years teaching, I've had more than one student come up to me, and ask to learn more, after supposedly learning what I had just taught them, only to watch them perform, and well, to be blunt, they sucked! Sorry, but I couldn't feel good about myself, if I allow someone to test, when they're really not ready.

Every dojo has its own system and its own way of doing things. I once went to this dojo that didn't even have regularly scheduled belt tests, rather when you thought you were ready for the next belt you would tell your sensai that you wanted to test and he would schedule a test for you. You actually had to be the judge of your own progress in that you had to tell the sensai when you wanted to test if you thought you could pass. It doesn't mean you will pass but as I said, each place has its own ranking methods and testing methods.

 

[MJS]

Yes, you're right that you do need to work hard to get what you want be it in the martial arts or anything else. However, you also have to know what you're doing and make sure you're working the right way. You don't want to work hard at doing things the wrong way, if you do you will only get better at doing it the wrong way. You do need to train hard but you need more than that, you also need to train smart.

I agree. Did my posts that I've made imply otherwise?