Belt Rank Progress

[Daniel Sullivan]

As for my plans that I had in life that involved getting a black belt before I turned 20 I will get into that later but for now I would like to say this. This thread started out in the wrong direction. From the beginning this thread was going into a debate over whether a sensei should tell a student when they test for rank or if the students should decide for themselves to sign up for belt tests. The fact of the matter is every sensei has their own system for rank advancement and as to which system works the best or which one is the proper one to use is a matter of opinion. I didn't intend this thread to be a debate on how rank advancement should work but rather that, whatever system a sensei uses a student should know how the system works and they should know what they need to do to get to the next rank. The same thing is true with just about any other goal in life. When you start college and work on getting a degree, you get a program that tells you what you need to do to get the degree, it tells you the courses you must take, the GPA you must maintain, how many credits you need, ect. That is just one example of many when it comes to knowing what you need to do to reach a goal. The martial arts is no different.

Now, has anybody seen the movie Best of the Best 2?

Threads that go for eighteen pages tend to broaden in scope. People respond to what others post. Sometimes, this results in illuminating discussion, sometimes not, but it does happen.

As for discussing life plans and such, it's part of the conversation, not a debate.

No, I haven't seen any of the Best of the Best sequels, though I do own the original.

 

[Balrog]

Of course, then you have to quantify what the mental aspect is. Is is academic? Is it an understanding of philosophy? Is it loyalty? Or something nebulous?

Yes. :lol:

Joking aside, it's hard to explain. The best that I can come up with is an internalization of all the life skills that are taught in conjunction with martial arts training. There is a mental growth, a maturity so to speak, that only comes from time and training. And it winds up being the difference between someone who has earned a Black Belt and someone who has become a Black Belt.

 

[Balrog]

But what if someone went from one style to another that was similar but unrelated? For example someone with black belts and years of training in karate and aikido switching to Hapkido. That person would be cooked through on the inside and requiring just a little icing on the outside.
:asian:

That is correct. I should have been clearer and said that I was referring to new students who have no prior training that go into accelerated programs.

I get transfers into my school all the time from different styles. They do accelerate through the colored belt curriculum because they have already "paid their dues" (or "been baked" to use the previous analogy) elsewhere. Once they reach a level in our style that is equivalent to where they were in their previous style, they then slow down to a normal pace and proceed onward from there.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Got it...Hook up with a sensei who agrees with you...many don't, and those schools won't work for you...
Most teachers will agree with you and make your ranking requirements perfectly clear... You, and most, will do well in that sort of environment.
If you don't like the environment, find another... Ultimately, we must take responsibility for ourselves and move on...blaming others or holding on to resentments is useless...
It was the "ruined my life" thing that may have thrown everyone off...
Also, don't be too hard on yourself - you were a kid when this all originally went down... Chalk it up to another life lesson - something to learn from...
Good luck.

Well do you agree with me? About making ranking requirements clear? Personally I think they should be made clear and if they're not clear to a student, than the student should talk to the sensei about it. After all, thats how it is with most other things. With college degrees, the requirement to get a degree is made very clear with the program you get when you declare a major. When a student has a test coming up in class, a smart student who wants to do well will talk to the teacher and ask what they need to study to get a good grade on the test. While the teacher probably wont tell them exactly what will be on the test, the teacher will at least tell the student all the material they need to study and so forth.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes. :lol:

Joking aside, it's hard to explain. The best that I can come up with is an internalization of all the life skills that are taught in conjunction with martial arts training. There is a mental growth, a maturity so to speak, that only comes from time and training. And it winds up being the difference between someone who has earned a Black Belt and someone who has become a Black Belt.

Incidentally, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

However, when people talk about the non physical aspects of an art, I find that there is seldom a lot of agreement as to what those consist of, even within the same art and sometimes the same organization.

I do like the way that you contrast earning with being. Though I've made my view on belts fairly clear, the concept of being a black belt, or more specifically, the kind of person that a black belt represents is worthy.

Personally, I don't feel that I 'became' until long after I had my first black belt.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Ok, so the reason why you didn't get to test, is because you thought someone would tell you, when in reality, you could've just signed up, right? In the majority of dojos that I know of, the teacher tells the student when they're ready, but anyways...my point was, even if you took the test and failed, and new the reason why, it's very possible that you still wouldn't have been able to test within this timeframe that you so desperately set for yourself.

Yes but at least I would've known why, and that would've brought me some peace. Its much better to fail and know why than to fail and not know why.

 

[MJS]

Yes but at least I would've known why, and that would've brought me some peace. Its much better to fail and know why than to fail and not know why.

But whether you sign up in advance or the teacher tells you, bottom line...you can still fail, and you'll still know the reason why. I'm not sure I'm following you as to why you think that you'd be in the dark about why you didn't pass.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes but at least I would've known why, and that would've brought me some peace. Its much better to fail and know why than to fail and not know why.

So.....why not ask? Your teacher works for you. You pay him so if you have a problem or concern knock on the door and ask.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes but at least I would've known why, and that would've brought me some peace. Its much better to fail and know why than to fail and not know why.

It occurs to me that perhaps you need to consider that the problem is closer to home...

 

[PhotonGuy]

But whether you sign up in advance or the teacher tells you, bottom line...you can still fail, and you'll still know the reason why. I'm not sure I'm following you as to why you think that you'd be in the dark about why you didn't pass.

What don't you understand?

 

[PhotonGuy]

So.....why not ask? Your teacher works for you. You pay him so if you have a problem or concern knock on the door and ask.

Yes you're absolutely right. I should've asked and the fact of the matter was that I didn't and that was my fault. This is one of the points I've been trying to make all along, that students need to ask their teachers about what they need to do to advance in whatever field of study the teacher is teaching, and the martial arts are no exception.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes you're absolutely right. I should've asked and the fact of the matter was that I didn't and that was my fault. This is one of the points I've been trying to make all along, that students need to ask their teachers about what they need to do to advance in whatever field of study the teacher is teaching, and the martial arts are no exception.

Or you can just train and be happy and not worry about a belt or promotion. If all you care about is a black belt I'll mail you 3 tomorrow.

 

[ballen0351]

Your goal was black belt by 20. OK 1st was that a realistic goal? When did you start training? How often did you train and how much time did you miss? Did you tell your teacher about your goal? Did you ask him if he thought it was realistic? Did you ask him for a plan to reach your goal?

 

[lklawson]

Or you can just train and be happy and not worry about a belt or promotion. If all you care about is a black belt I'll mail you 3 tomorrow.

Very few people expend the money and effort of going to University but not caring about getting that sheepskin at the end of it. Of course they could simply go online and find a Diploma Mill. Some do that. But it's not the Diploma, per se, it's what the Diploma recognizes about the student.

 

[ballen0351]

Very few people expend the money and effort of going to University but not caring about getting that sheepskin at the end of it. Of course they could simply go online and find a Diploma Mill. Some do that. But it's not the Diploma, per se, it's what the Diploma recognizes about the student.

MA training is hardly college. Its a hobby for a majority of people. Nothing more no matter how much you want to believe your a human weapon. BUT if you keep training and not worry about the rank well guess what the rank will come on its own in due time regardless

 

[Dirty Dog]

Very few people expend the money and effort of going to University but not caring about getting that sheepskin at the end of it. Of course they could simply go online and find a Diploma Mill. Some do that. But it's not the Diploma, per se, it's what the Diploma recognizes about the student.

Most people go to University with the (occasionally misguided...) intent of graduating with a degree that will aid them in their quest to Put Food On The Table and occasionally Go On A Vacation.

Having the same expectations of earning a 1st degree black belt is hardly reasonable...

 

[PhotonGuy]

Or you can just train and be happy and not worry about a belt or promotion. If all you care about is a black belt I'll mail you 3 tomorrow.

Well in that case, why go to school and care about getting an A? Just study and be happy, who needs grades anyway.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Your goal was black belt by 20. OK 1st was that a realistic goal? When did you start training? How often did you train and how much time did you miss? Did you tell your teacher about your goal? Did you ask him if he thought it was realistic? Did you ask him for a plan to reach your goal?

I started at the age of 12 and I was a high level brown belt, the rank right before black belt, shortly after I turned 18. So my goal was very realistic, I had almost 2 years to go that one extra rank.

 

[PhotonGuy]

MA training is hardly college. Its a hobby for a majority of people. Nothing more no matter how much you want to believe your a human weapon. BUT if you keep training and not worry about the rank well guess what the rank will come on its own in due time regardless

Its a hobby for some people, and than there's those who want to make a career out of it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Very few people expend the money and effort of going to University but not caring about getting that sheepskin at the end of it. Of course they could simply go online and find a Diploma Mill. Some do that. But it's not the Diploma, per se, it's what the Diploma recognizes about the student.

Amen. Same thing with the black belt. Its not the black belt per se but what the black belt represents about the martial artist.