Belt Rank Progress

[K-man]

The only issue that I have with "accelerated" programs is that they ignore an important aspect of training. Yes, it is possible to learn all the techniques and memorize the forms, etc. and perform them well enough to physically pass a Black Belt testing. But there is the mental aspect of training as well, and IMNSHO, one year isn't anywhere near long enough to become a Black Belt.

It's like baking a cake. If the recipe says mix up the ingredients, then put in an oven at 225 degrees for two hours, what would be the result of turning the heat up to 450 but only leaving the cake in for one hour? You'll wind up with something that might look okay on the outside, but is still raw and unfinished on the inside.

My $0.02 worth.....

But what if someone went from one style to another that was similar but unrelated? For example someone with black belts and years of training in karate and aikido switching to Hapkido. That person would be cooked through on the inside and requiring just a little icing on the outside.
:asian:

 

[jks9199]

Photonguy, you've talked in circles around this, and I'm just confused. What exactly led to your failure to obtain your black belt, and how did it so greatly impact your life? I'm at a loss to see the connection, or what it has to do with talking to the right people or being given the right information. For several years, I was repeatedly asked by various people within my art when I was testing for black belt. My answer was always the same; when my teacher said I would.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Photonguy, you've talked in circles around this, and I'm just confused. What exactly led to your failure to obtain your black belt, and how did it so greatly impact your life? I'm at a loss to see the connection, or what it has to do with talking to the right people or being given the right information. For several years, I was repeatedly asked by various people within my art when I was testing for black belt. My answer was always the same; when my teacher said I would.

Like I said, part of the goal of obtaining black belt was to do it in a certain time period, before I turned 20. The reason I didn't obtain black belt before I turned 20 was because I erroneously thought that I had to wait for my sensei to tell me I could test when in fact, I could've signed up for it at my own discretion. So I had the wrong information. My mistake was that I didn't talk to my sensei about the black belt test, I didn't think to ask my sensei if I had to wait for him to tell me I could take the black belt test or if I could sign up for it on my own. If your teacher has to tell students when they will test for their black belt before they can test for it than that is how your teacher runs his dojo, it is not how my teacher runs his.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think that the major intellectual hurdle that people face in this is how it nearly ruined your life. Do you mean literally or are you employing hyperbole?

 

[MJS]

Like I said, part of the goal of obtaining black belt was to do it in a certain time period, before I turned 20. The reason I didn't obtain black belt before I turned 20 was because I erroneously thought that I had to wait for my sensei to tell me I could test when in fact, I could've signed up for it at my own discretion. So I had the wrong information. My mistake was that I didn't talk to my sensei about the black belt test, I didn't think to ask my sensei if I had to wait for him to tell me I could take the black belt test or if I could sign up for it on my own. If your teacher has to tell students when they will test for their black belt before they can test for it than that is how your teacher runs his dojo, it is not how my teacher runs his.

I'm still confused as to what the big deal is. If you had signed up and failed, you still might not have received the belt by the time you were hoping, so again, what's the big deal??

I think that the major intellectual hurdle that people face in this is how it nearly ruined your life. Do you mean literally or are you employing hyperbole?

Hopefully it's the latter.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I'm still confused as to what the big deal is. If you had signed up and failed, you still might not have received the belt by the time you were hoping, so again, what's the big deal??

If I failed I would've known why. At my dojo when you fail a belt test they tell you why you failed. So therefore I would know what I needed to work on and so if I worked hard enough I would be able to pass the next time around. So I should've been able to do it within my time limit since I had close to two years to go from high level brown to black.

 

[jks9199]

Like I said, part of the goal of obtaining black belt was to do it in a certain time period, before I turned 20. The reason I didn't obtain black belt before I turned 20 was because I erroneously thought that I had to wait for my sensei to tell me I could test when in fact, I could've signed up for it at my own discretion. So I had the wrong information. My mistake was that I didn't talk to my sensei about the black belt test, I didn't think to ask my sensei if I had to wait for him to tell me I could take the black belt test or if I could sign up for it on my own. If your teacher has to tell students when they will test for their black belt before they can test for it than that is how your teacher runs his dojo, it is not how my teacher runs his.

OK -- I get how you didn't test when you wanted to. But why did it have such a negative impact on your life? Since you failed to meet one goal, did you give up on everything for years and years? If so -- you need(ed?) therapy, not a black belt. Tell us more about why it had such a powerful impact on your life; I think everyone can sense your bitterness about it.

 

[David Lader]

At this point, perhaps we have enough information to know that he is, in fact, employing hyperbole...
There is, in the story, no mention at all of a life in actual ruins... He seems to have recovered from his very significant frustration and disappointment just fine...
He is also very young and, apparently, plenty resilient. I am optimistic that he'll be ok.
Peace to him and all of us...

 

[MJS]

If I failed I would've known why. At my dojo when you fail a belt test they tell you why you failed. So therefore I would know what I needed to work on and so if I worked hard enough I would be able to pass the next time around. So I should've been able to do it within my time limit since I had close to two years to go from high level brown to black.

Ok, so the reason why you didn't get to test, is because you thought someone would tell you, when in reality, you could've just signed up, right? In the majority of dojos that I know of, the teacher tells the student when they're ready, but anyways...my point was, even if you took the test and failed, and new the reason why, it's very possible that you still wouldn't have been able to test within this timeframe that you so desperately set for yourself.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

At this point, perhaps we have enough information to know that he is, in fact, employing hyperbole...
There is, in the story, no mention at all of a life in actual ruins... He seems to have recovered from his very significant frustration and disappointment just fine...
He is also very young and, apparently, plenty resilient. I am optimistic that he'll be ok.
Peace to him and all of us...

That is my impression.

 

[PhotonGuy]

At this point, perhaps we have enough information to know that he is, in fact, employing hyperbole...
There is, in the story, no mention at all of a life in actual ruins... He seems to have recovered from his very significant frustration and disappointment just fine...
He is also very young and, apparently, plenty resilient. I am optimistic that he'll be ok.
Peace to him and all of us...

Im not quite as young as you might think.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I was exaggerating a bit, perhaps, when I said it ruined my life about not making black belt before I turned 20. I didn't become an alcoholic or a drug addict or anything of that nature. It really did, however, hurt my self esteem and self confidence and there were certain situations I could've dealt with much better if I had made black belt before I turned 20. I did have plans in life and those plans depended on me getting a black belt before I turned 20 or at least somewhere in that time frame. Also, getting a black belt before I turned 20 was a really big deal for me because it was something I wanted to do when I was a teenager. There were certain things that I had the goal of doing while I was still a teenager and getting a black belt was one of them. To this day, had I made black belt before I turned 20 things would probably be different for me now.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I was exaggerating a bit, perhaps, when I said it ruined my life about not making black belt before I turned 20. I didn't become an alcoholic or a drug addict or anything of that nature. It really did, however, hurt my self esteem and self confidence

I can see that.

and there were certain situations I could've dealt with much better if I had made black belt before I turned 20.

Like what? I'm not being flippant; I'm genuinely curious.

I did have plans in life and those plans depended on me getting a black belt before I turned 20 or at least somewhere in that time frame.

What kind of plans required a black belt at this time? Again, I'm not being sarcastic or flippant.

Also, getting a black belt before I turned 20 was a really big deal for me because it was something I wanted to do when I was a teenager. There were certain things that I had the goal of doing while I was still a teenager and getting a black belt was one of them.

I can see that.

To this day, had I made black belt before I turned 20 things would probably be different for me now.

You should watch the movie, Mr. Destiny. Jim Belushi agonizes over how different his life would have been if he'd hit a home run in the championship game. An encounter with Michael Caine causes his speculation to take an interesting turn. It was an interesting movie.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I can see that.

Like what? I'm not being flippant; I'm genuinely curious.


What kind of plans required a black belt at this time? Again, I'm not being sarcastic or flippant.


I can see that.


You should watch the movie, Mr. Destiny. Jim Belushi agonizes over how different his life would have been if he'd hit a home run in the championship game. An encounter with Michael Caine causes his speculation to take an interesting turn. It was an interesting movie.

Yes I did see Mr. Destiny. It was a good movie but what I thought was one of the flaws was that if he had hit the home run his memories would've been different. He would've had no memory of meeting the girl that he was married to in the beginning of the movie because they would've never met. His memories would be of him marrying the CEO's daughter and whatnot since that's what happened in the alternate timeline. So that was how I think the movie was flawed. I think a better representation of time travel and changing your past would be the Butterfly Effect movies.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Furthermore, as I posted before, I saw the movie Best of the Best part 2. I would assume at least some of the people on this board have seen it since its a martial arts movie. Early in the movie there is this scene where a boy fails his black belt test because he is not able to break a cinder block which is one of the things you have to do to get a black belt at the dojo he goes to. While he did fail, at least he knew why he failed. He knew what he needed to work on so he could hopefully pass the next time around.

Not making black belt is one thing, not knowing why you aren't making black belt is something else.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes I did see Mr. Destiny. It was a good movie but what I thought was one of the flaws was that if he had hit the home run his memories would've been different. He would've had no memory of meeting the girl that he was married to in the beginning of the movie because they would've never met. His memories would be of him marrying the CEO's daughter and whatnot since that's what happened in the alternate timeline. So that was how I think the movie was flawed. I think a better representation of time travel and changing your past would be the Butterfly Effect movies.

It's been a couple of decades since I've seen the movie, and I'm sure that it has flaws. It was pertinent because the main character dwelt on what might have been if he had only hit that ball, and truly believed that if he had, it would have made his life better. Which is what you have done with regards to not meeting that MA goal.

But that more importantly, what situations would having earned a black belt by twenty helped you to deal with more effectively?

And what life plans were dependent upon earning a black belt specifically by the age of twenty (as opposed to simply earning one)?

 

[jks9199]

I was exaggerating a bit, perhaps, when I said it ruined my life about not making black belt before I turned 20. I didn't become an alcoholic or a drug addict or anything of that nature. It really did, however, hurt my self esteem and self confidence and there were certain situations I could've dealt with much better if I had made black belt before I turned 20. I did have plans in life and those plans depended on me getting a black belt before I turned 20 or at least somewhere in that time frame. Also, getting a black belt before I turned 20 was a really big deal for me because it was something I wanted to do when I was a teenager. There were certain things that I had the goal of doing while I was still a teenager and getting a black belt was one of them. To this day, had I made black belt before I turned 20 things would probably be different for me now.

Sorry for being a little late in responding; work interfered in staying current on every post.

I started college straight out of high school, and ended up financially unable to return. Had I been able to return, and graduated that school, my career would likely have been very different. I considered enlisting, and had the recruiter had some of the information that they commonly do today, I probably would have signed up. Again, my life and career would have been quite different. I can continue down a list, had I taken that assignment or job, not taken this one...

But here's the thing. I look at who I am today, at the life and family I have, and it's the sum total of all the choices, good and bad, made to get here. I'm reasonably happy with it -- so I'm not going to spend my life looking back and saying I wish... Things happened, I rolled with them, made the best choice I could at the time. And as life goes on, it continues. I've probably made choices in the last month that I might think differently of in 10 years. But they've been the best I choice I could make at the time.

Regarding not knowing why... That's life. Why didn't I qualify for financial aid? Did I not play the game right, or were my parents unfairly expected to pay more? Don't know. Don't care. IT'S ONLY MINIMALLY RELEVANT to what's happened. If you know why, and can fix it -- then fix it. Otherwise, get on with life. I know this sounds blunt, but really, that's what it amounts to. And that's the "message" of Mr. Destiny, It's a Wonderful Life, and lots of similarly themed movies and stories. If you spend your life looking back at things that never happened or didn't happen the way you wanted -- you'll miss what's right in front of you. If having a black belt is so important to you, and you haven't done so yet -- go back and earn one now. Robert Asprin's character Skeeve the Magnificent said something along the lines of "If you spend too much time looking at what happened in the past, you'll trip over what's happening now." in one of the Myth Adventures books.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As for my plans that I had in life that involved getting a black belt before I turned 20 I will get into that later but for now I would like to say this. This thread started out in the wrong direction. From the beginning this thread was going into a debate over whether a sensei should tell a student when they test for rank or if the students should decide for themselves to sign up for belt tests. The fact of the matter is every sensei has their own system for rank advancement and as to which system works the best or which one is the proper one to use is a matter of opinion. I didn't intend this thread to be a debate on how rank advancement should work but rather that, whatever system a sensei uses a student should know how the system works and they should know what they need to do to get to the next rank. The same thing is true with just about any other goal in life. When you start college and work on getting a degree, you get a program that tells you what you need to do to get the degree, it tells you the courses you must take, the GPA you must maintain, how many credits you need, ect. That is just one example of many when it comes to knowing what you need to do to reach a goal. The martial arts is no different.

Now, has anybody seen the movie Best of the Best 2?

 

[David Lader]

Got it...Hook up with a sensei who agrees with you...many don't, and those schools won't work for you...
Most teachers will agree with you and make your ranking requirements perfectly clear... You, and most, will do well in that sort of environment.
If you don't like the environment, find another... Ultimately, we must take responsibility for ourselves and move on...blaming others or holding on to resentments is useless...
It was the "ruined my life" thing that may have thrown everyone off...
Also, don't be too hard on yourself - you were a kid when this all originally went down... Chalk it up to another life lesson - something to learn from...
Good luck.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As for my plans that I had in life that involved getting a black belt before I turned 20 I will get into that later but for now I would like to say this. This thread started out in the wrong direction. From the beginning this thread was going into a debate over whether a sensei should tell a student when they test for rank or if the students should decide for themselves to sign up for belt tests. The fact of the matter is every sensei has their own system for rank advancement and as to which system works the best or which one is the proper one to use is a matter of opinion. I didn't intend this thread to be a debate on how rank advancement should work but rather that, whatever system a sensei uses a student should know how the system works and they should know what they need to do to get to the next rank. The same thing is true with just about any other goal in life. When you start college and work on getting a degree, you get a program that tells you what you need to do to get the degree, it tells you the courses you must take, the GPA you must maintain, how many credits you need, ect. That is just one example of many when it comes to knowing what you need to do to reach a goal. The martial arts is no different.

Now, has anybody seen the movie Best of the Best 2?

Actually, I think this is not correct. What started all this was two ideas.

1 - Students sign up for tests when THEY think they're ready, not when the instructor does,
and
2 - Not getting a belt by some arbitrary time you picked could somehow "ruin [your] life".

Both concepts are pretty widely viewed as ranging from silly to ludicrous. I've not seen anything here to change those opinions.

However,
1 - Students who think they're ready should talk to their instructor and instructors with students who are ready should talk to their students.
and
2 - Not making a random arbitrary goal can be disappointing.

Are concepts that few will disagree with.