Being a good fighter

[Gerry Seymour]

Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, nobody has gotten upset yet. Everyone has simply provided input (and some correction) to help you understand your audience here and to point out where you might be making mistakes. We do this for each other all the time - frankly, it's one of the reasons I keep coming back. Chris has certainly corrected me on points where I was in error (just go look back at some of my posts about koryu arts). Now I know better and Chris doesn't have to dope-slap me when I mis-speak.

 

[Tez3]

Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily

You might want to think about the 'beating up bit', it's not how we think.
Actually you don't know what we think, I think you are a new poster here so are being given some slack while you find your feet. That's it, nothing more.

Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch

Now you see that's easy for you to say and think, easy for you to do as well I bet but many people aren't flexible and all the stretching in the world will only make a moderate difference, age and injuries as well as different types of bodies come into it. It's naïve of you to get annoyed because you think someone is being sarcastic and they really aren't. I can't stretch much due to my knees being damaged by far too much martial arts, horse riding and parachuting, to stretch makes them worse, I can do brilliant low kicks though.

I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.

When you say good fighters what do you mean? Good at sparring, good in competitive fights, good at self defence? Do you mean points fighting, full contact, MMA, Muay Thai, K1 or able to thug it out 'on the street' ( or carpark)?

 

[Chris Parker]

Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily. I'm not trying to say that I have decades of experience because that would be impossible. I'm just giving my opinions based on my knowledge that I currently have. I know that many of you guys think I'm just the average TKD guy who's going to say TKD is awesome but TBH I think JKD is much better. I put my opinions here for your guy's knowledge because I am looking to educate myself on this topic. I guess I should've just asked for opinions. Sorry.

It has nothing to do with anyone "beating you up", so I recommend getting that idea out of your head… it's really the least important aspect of anything here. The question remains exactly what your experience is. Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.

Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.

The question is a very valid one (what if someone lacks the flexibility), but your answer was that of a teenager (yeah, I know… hardly surprising!). What I mean by that is that, when you're young (as you are), your body is still highly malleable… you can simply stretch more, and have a reasonable expectation of some progress in most cases… however, what if that person is older, and has issues with their hips? Maybe they've had a hip replacement? Maybe they're just not that flexible naturally? Maybe there's a genetic reason?

When taken in that light, it's more apparent that, while TKD might suit your preferences and personality, it is not automatically a good choice for everyone… and much of your assumptions in your original post were more about the limitations of your experience, combined with your personal preferences. Asking you the question was to get you to think beyond yourself… hopefully you will be able to do that from now on.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Just stretch" will never get some of us to high-kick range. That's a lesson learned through years of experience. Flexibility is not just about how long a muscle is (what can be effectively lengthened), but also about how the joints work, the connective tissue, etc. I could probably have stretched to be competent at those high kicks back in my 20's or 30's, but it would have taken so much time as to make it inefficient.

I think the point of the original question was that there's no one art that's right for everyone. Someone who doesn't have the flexibility for those high kicks will develop faster by seeking something they are well-suited to, unless they are young enough to gain flexibility quickly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.

This.

Don't look for conflict and attack in most people's questions and responses. We challenge each other here, ask questions to understand who audiences are, and use that knowledge of their experience to help interpret their responses.

You are among friends.

 

[FlamingJulian]

You might want to think about the 'beating up bit', it's not how we think.
Actually you don't know what we think, I think you are a new poster here so are being given some slack while you find your feet. That's it, nothing more.



Now you see that's easy for you to say and think, easy for you to do as well I bet but many people aren't flexible and all the stretching in the world will only make a moderate difference, age and injuries as well as different types of bodies come into it. It's naïve of you to get annoyed because you think someone is being sarcastic and they really aren't. I can't stretch much due to my knees being damaged by far too much martial arts, horse riding and parachuting, to stretch makes them worse, I can do brilliant low kicks though.





When you say good fighters what do you mean? Good at sparring, good in competitive fights, good at self defence? Do you mean points fighting, full contact, MMA, Muay Thai, K1 or able to thug it out 'on the street' ( or carpark)?

Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand. If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions. Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys. What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlamingJulian]

It has nothing to do with anyone "beating you up", so I recommend getting that idea out of your head… it's really the least important aspect of anything here. The question remains exactly what your experience is. Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.



The question is a very valid one (what if someone lacks the flexibility), but your answer was that of a teenager (yeah, I know… hardly surprising!). What I mean by that is that, when you're young (as you are), your body is still highly malleable… you can simply stretch more, and have a reasonable expectation of some progress in most cases… however, what if that person is older, and has issues with their hips? Maybe they've had a hip replacement? Maybe they're just not that flexible naturally? Maybe there's a genetic reason?

When taken in that light, it's more apparent that, while TKD might suit your preferences and personality, it is not automatically a good choice for everyone… and much of your assumptions in your original post were more about the limitations of your experience, combined with your personal preferences. Asking you the question was to get you to think beyond yourself… hopefully you will be able to do that from now on.

Okay, well I'm just going to admit that you're 100% correct on that statement. But I misunderstood because I'm new here and still don't really know a lot about the people on here. And when he asked that question about flexibility I thought he legitimately had a question because I am new here and I gave my opinion because anyone who here is probably opinion seeking.?.?.. But sorry I didn't mean to like get everyone worked up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tez3]

Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand.

No one was 'accusing' you, they were pointing out the obvious that you don't understand the subject because if you had you wouldn't have assumed the question was sarcastic and you wouldn't have answered 'stretch' in a dismissive way. There is no reason why you should understand the subject by the way, you aren't required to be an instant expert or even an expert, that comes with experience and being under good instruction. Just though have a think before deciding an answer is sarcastic just because it seems to you an easy answer and are mentally going 'doh' at us.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand. If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions. Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys. What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do wish "make millions" was an option.

No, you won't get "accused of trying to instruct people" when you answer a question here. You may (often will) get some disagreement with statements - it happens with all of us, so that's somethign bad not about you - but when you answer a question we understand the context.

The "fighting" definition is an important one, since there are many sport-oriented martial artists here, as well. To them, a "fight" might mean a match, and that's a different (overlapping) skill-set from self-defense. Depending upon the competition, it may be more or less indicative of one's ability to fight off an attacker (to keep the "fight" terminology). Knowing your definition of "fight" helps us make sure we're responding to what you meant, rather than what we thought you meant.

You'll also find some folks here who get picky about the word "fight", asserting that fights don't happen in self-defense. I'm not in that crowd, but I thought I'd warn you about that ongoing debate over the definition of "fight".

 

[Tez3]

But sorry I didn't mean to like get everyone worked up.

LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.

 

[FlamingJulian]

"Just stretch" will never get some of us to high-kick range. That's a lesson learned through years of experience. Flexibility is not just about how long a muscle is (what can be effectively lengthened), but also about how the joints work, the connective tissue, etc. I could probably have stretched to be competent at those high kicks back in my 20's or 30's, but it would have taken so much time as to make it inefficient.

I think the point of the original question was that there's no one art that's right for everyone. Someone who doesn't have the flexibility for those high kicks will develop faster by seeking something they are well-suited to, unless they are young enough to gain flexibility quickly.

That is true that there is no right art for everyone. I was generally talking about people who could do hand strikes and some kicks. But yes I agree with you now that I understand the point you're making.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Parker]

Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand.

To help you out there, you've come along to an established community, where the majority of the membership have been here for years, and we all know each other fairly well (our strengths, weaknesses, training backgrounds, personalities, and more). We know who is reliable in terms of information, and who is more, shall we say… questionable. And many of us are well and truly experienced in, at the very least, our own arts. As I indicated earlier, I'm three decades deep in my training… and I'm far from the longest-serving practitioner here.

So, when someone comes along and starts a post by telling us how many types of "good" martial artists there are, followed by an essay on what makes someone a good fighter, and what they should do to be one ("do a striking art") in an informative manner, with the air of being a thought out take from someone who's experience should be listened to and given weight, we're going to want to know who it's from. And, whether intended or not, by presenting in that way, you're aiming to be informative… or educational. Which is why you are seen as trying to instruct (educate) the membership here.

If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions.

HA!!!!

No.

Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys.

Cool. Can you go back and either make an introduction thread, or answer the questions as to your background then? Just so we know something about you, other than the fact that you're 16 years old?

What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now.

Okay, so that's your context. Remember that others will have different contexts.

 

[FlamingJulian]

I do wish "make millions" was an option.

No, you won't get "accused of trying to instruct people" when you answer a question here. You may (often will) get some disagreement with statements - it happens with all of us, so that's somethign bad not about you - but when you answer a question we understand the context.

The "fighting" definition is an important one, since there are many sport-oriented martial artists here, as well. To them, a "fight" might mean a match, and that's a different (overlapping) skill-set from self-defense. Depending upon the competition, it may be more or less indicative of one's ability to fight off an attacker (to keep the "fight" terminology). Knowing your definition of "fight" helps us make sure we're responding to what you meant, rather than what we thought you meant.

You'll also find some folks here who get picky about the word "fight", asserting that fights don't happen in self-defense. I'm not in that crowd, but I thought I'd warn you about that ongoing debate over the definition of "fight".

Right I understand. I am just new to this whole thing and didn't really understand that everyone (most) people on here is extremely skilled way beyond my level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlamingJulian]

LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.

Okey, good. I'm honestly very confused right now because I'm just reading and I can't hear so it's not like I can pick up on the tone in your voice or anything so I wouldn't know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.

@Flaming-Julian Some of us enjoy debates - both correcting and being corrected, because we learn from them - so we can get energetic when we find someone worth engaging with. That energy is a compliment to you - you immediately seemed worth discussing with. Not everyone does, and frankly some don't respond as well to conflict as you seem to.

Because of your lack of experience (remember, we all were there at one point, so that's not a bad thing), you'll likely have some notions we want to help you correct. That's the same thing (hopefully) your instructor is doing with your techniques. This is a great place to learn and share with others. You will find some who are just starting in MA, some who are around your level, some a bit ahead of you, some with decades of experience, and then the Really Old Guys™ (you know who you are ) who worked out with people like Bill Wallace.

 

[Chris Parker]

Right I understand. I am just new to this whole thing and didn't really understand that everyone (most) people on here is extremely skilled way beyond my level.

It's not about the skill level, it's more about the experience and education levels… but again, the important thing is to understand your own level… we're happy to have you here… and, hopefully, if you can engage well, you're going to learn a lot. The internet is fantastic for sharing information, so you have access to a hell of a lot more information than any of us had at your stage… however it is also true that it's very easy to get a highly false sense of how much you genuinely know.

 

[FlamingJulian]

To help you out there, you've come along to an established community, where the majority of the membership have been here for years, and we all know each other fairly well (our strengths, weaknesses, training backgrounds, personalities, and more). We know who is reliable in terms of information, and who is more, shall we say… questionable. And many of us are well and truly experienced in, at the very least, our own arts. As I indicated earlier, I'm three decades deep in my training… and I'm far from the longest-serving practitioner here.

So, when someone comes along and starts a post by telling us how many types of "good" martial artists there are, followed by an essay on what makes someone a good fighter, and what they should do to be one ("do a striking art") in an informative manner, with the air of being a thought out take from someone who's experience should be listened to and given weight, we're going to want to know who it's from. And, whether intended or not, by presenting in that way, you're aiming to be informative… or educational. Which is why you are seen as trying to instruct (educate) the membership here.



HA!!!!

No.



Cool. Can you go back and either make an introduction thread, or answer the questions as to your background then? Just so we know something about you, other than the fact that you're 16 years old?



Okay, so that's your context. Remember that others will have different contexts.

Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Parker]

Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them.

Cool, I look forward to meeting you there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One of the things Martial Talk's forum provides is a place to learn something most of us didn't have to learn unless we were in a science-based program in school at some point: how to make statements that are properly backed by evidence (whether experiential or scientific) and how to challenge those kinds of statements.

It's a great place to challenge your own thinking, learn how others think, and explore common assumptions.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No ones upset but you are talking bad about a lot of martial arts and then stating you know a lot about one because you've read about it on wikipidea...so yeah people here will call you out on stuff like that because you may have read about it but that means nothing. Unless you've actually trained it you really don't know anything not an insult but just the truth have a nice day