Being a good fighter

[Tames D]

Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things, two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
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Welcome to Martialtalk Julian. I'm in category 3.

 

[JP3]

what if the person lacks the flexibility to do Taekwondo kicks?

Then, you'd be talking to me. Ha! 20 years in and 4 degrees later, and I put away all the flashy TKD kicking years ago as street-ineffective. Cool to watch, sure. Fantastic spectator Olympic sport, absolutely. Rules-driven and full of exploitable holes, you bet.

Any style can beat any other style. Anyone can get caught, just like anyone can get lucky.

These truths being self-evident to folks who have spent a few years in and around the fight game, certain things are real truth, however. The fighter who trains to fight, really, is a better fighter than the person who practices techniques but isn't actually in a fight won't do as well. This being said, the guy who trains and practices his/her stuff, even if not intending to get into a fight, ever, is way ahead than someone who has never trained (keep in mind, those folks who just go out and learn to fight the hard way, by doing it, are training...).

I've got this theory about fighting, physical conflict, whatever. The person who successfully applies his rule system to the other guy - while not allowing the reverse to take place, wins.

TKD guy wants you "over there" where he can unload that catalog of whipping, turning, smashingly feisty kick techniques and long-range hand striking they're known for. BTDT. Wrestler who is good gets past, slips, blocks or is just plain lucky ends up standing next to TKD guy and grabs him. Oops, no more long range, now you've got to have a tool in your bag to deal with this new problem. Issue is, wrestler already has that tool kit in his bag, and his "bag" is one of those rolling, professional mechanic style tool kits compared to the TKD guys pair of pliers. In this scenario, things are not going to go well for TKD guy.

But, we could just as easily flip-flop the roles, make it a hyped up collegiate wrestler out for a bash a geek night and Oops, he happens to pick on a skilled TKD guy (who has seen wrestling before, key point). Wrestler tries to close, TKD guy evades and sticks him with a simple kick or strike and lets him pass by, Ole! Wrestler (if as in my mental image of this story, loses his cool) and just goes nuts trying to get to the TKD guy, and IF the TKD guy is able to keep the slipping and distance (a key in every striking art) right where he wants it, and is also able to deliver energy on target, and continue to do so effectively, will eventually (it may only take one good technique) cause enough damage to end the situation, either by submission (I give up, take my ball and go home IS submission), or defeat.

So, to me, it's not style at all, it's practice.

Then, it's practice something else.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You guys have good points. I'm sure some of you could beat me and know much more than I do. I was just giving my opinions. I'm sure some of you are much older as well


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Which points do you think are good and bad? Why?

It helps to challenge everyone's beliefs once in a while, and a good way is to explain any issues with counterarguments if anyone has them

 

[FlamingJulian]

I'm assuming you're a taekwondo guy. and kicboxing is not mainly kicks at all hence the name kick boxing. It has kicks and punches and knees and elbows and no other techaisus that can be used in a fight? well fights are mainly punches kicks blocks knees elbows. fights arent prettu and choreograhped like movies you want to try a 360 tornado kick on the street theyll most likely be cleaning you up off the pavement and honestly this kind of post is definentely likely to cause some arguments. Also you say you wouldn't want to get close to someone but what if you have no choice what if someone pins you to a wall or gets up close to you in a crowded area like a nightclub what will you do then ask him to back up a bit?

You have a good point and that's why I posted my opinions. I wanted to see others points. A friend of mine took kickboxing and that's where I got that information from. No, fight aren't pretty. But yes knowing grappling never hurts.


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[FlamingJulian]

what if the person lacks the flexibility to do Taekwondo kicks?

Damn that would suck. I would tell them to stretch a lot or take something like ninjutsu which utilizes great hand techniques, grapples, joint locks, some kicks, throws, takedowns, dodges, and more


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[FlamingJulian]

Welcome to MT. There will be a varying degree of disagreement with what you posted. I'll try to walk to the gentle line here. I have background in several arts, though only significant time in karate (American freestyle and Shotokan) and Judo other than my primary art.

First, you may not want to get close to someone attacking you, but they probably want to get close to you. If you have no close-in responses, you'll find yourself in a world of trouble unless you see the attack early enough AND are far more skilled than the attacker. One of my students came to me specifically because his Shotokan training lacks any significant in-close work, and that leaves him vulnerable. Personally, if I can keep them away, I wil, but if they want to close that distance, I'll use that to my advantage.

Secondly, you seem to have an unclear picture of what grappling is. If you're referring to ground-grappling, you're right that it's really only likely to be usable against a single attacker. At the same time, if you're on the ground, you need some ground-grappling capability to get back up. With standing grappling, however, we have a different game, entirely. The ability to control an attacker is even higher with grappling than with striking (especially if they aren't feeling the pain of strikes).

An ideal self-defense training regimen should have answers to many ranges, should include striking and grappling (including ground work). Many arts don't include enough of at least one of those, so most of us cross-train.

In short, there is no one "the answer" to what's good. Nearly any art can be effective for self-defense, and most (perhaps all) of them aren't complete for any one person.

I completely agree


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[Chris Parker]

Damn that would suck. I would tell them to stretch a lot or take something like ninjutsu which utilizes great hand techniques, grapples, joint locks, some kicks, throws, takedowns, dodges, and more.

Hmm… not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but exactly what do you know of the make up of ninjutsu's curriculum?

 

[FlamingJulian]

Hmm… not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but exactly what do you know of the make up of ninjutsu's curriculum?

I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this. There's too much for me to write about. They study a lot of things and the emphasis can change depending on the school/dojo.


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[Chris Parker]

You're young. You're also new here. I'm going to recommend taking both those factors into consideration before stating anything about any art here… and especially against relying on wikipedia for accuracy. You may want to follow the links in my signature to understand why I asked about that particular comment of yours…

 

[Tez3]

I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this

or you could just ask an expert....oh that would be Chris Parker then.

I'm not being funny but you do know this site is for martial artists, one's who actually train as well as instruct and have been for decades?

 

[FlamingJulian]

or you could just ask an expert....oh that would be Chris Parker then.

I'm not being funny but you do know this site is for martial artists, one's who actually train as well as instruct and have been for decades?

If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho. I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well. I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.


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[Gerry Seymour]

I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this. There's too much for me to write about. They study a lot of things and the emphasis can change depending on the school/dojo.


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Wikipedia articles are often overly generic. They can be edited by anyone, and though they are supposed to be based on other sources, those sources are not vetted, so the information there may be based on bad information the original source. Wikipedia is often a good place to start research, but rarely a good place to end it.

 

[FlamingJulian]

Wikipedia articles are often overly generic. They can be edited by anyone, and though they are supposed to be based on other sources, those sources are not vetted, so the information there may be based on bad information the original source. Wikipedia is often a good place to start research, but rarely a good place to end it.

I agree with that. 24/7 I research about martial arts and Wikipedia seems pretty legit for the most part. It's legit about the styles I have taken.


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[Gerry Seymour]

If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho. I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well. I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.


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This is not combat. Take it easy. Tez was just pointing out that most of the folks on here have a lot of background knowledge in MA, so sources like Wikipedia will rarely carry much weight. When someone here makes the claim "I know a lot about..." it's usually backed up by a lot of personal experience, rather than what we've read. When it's second- or third-hand information, we're more likely to be asking than telling.

 

[FlamingJulian]

This is not combat. Take it easy. Tez was just pointing out that most of the folks on here have a lot of background knowledge in MA, so sources like Wikipedia will rarely carry much weight. When someone here makes the claim "I know a lot about..." it's usually backed up by a lot of personal experience, rather than what we've read. When it's second- or third-hand information, we're more likely to be asking than telling.

Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.


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[Chris Parker]

If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho.

Settle down, no one has suggested you don't train… the point was that the people you're discussing with here are well and truly ahead of you and your experience at this point, and to keep that in mind. With regards to the ninjutsu comment, I've been training in that art for two and a half decades, teaching for the past 10 years. I also train in a number of classical Japanese traditions, as well as having experience in many other modern, classical, and traditional (not necessarily the same thing) systems, ranging from boxing to BJJ to Aikido to TKD to Karate to Kyudo to RBSD systems and more over the past three decades or so.

I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well.

Yeah… the whole "my family members have taught me their techniques" thing rarely goes over well… but the point is that you are not them, they are not here putting themselves forth as informed persons, you are. So the question is, just how much understanding and knowledge do you actually have?

I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.

Sure. But the question is how informed those opinions are. If they're not actually based in anything beyond reading wikipedia, you'll find that you'll get called on them pretty quickly… we go well beyond wiki here…

I agree with that. 24/7 I research about martial arts and Wikipedia seems pretty legit for the most part. It's legit about the styles I have taken.

No, Wiki is not "legit"… but the more important question is, what are these styles you have taken? How long have you trained in them? That's part of why you were suggested to post an introduction on the Meet and Greet section…

You mention that your cousin "takes ninjutsu"… the same questions apply… who with, how long has he trained, what rank etc?

 

[Tez3]

Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.


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No one is getting upset, unless it's you, I wasn't suggesting you don't train martial arts rather it's you that seems to think that posters here need to be instructed which isn't upsetting just funny.

 

[Tgace]

 

[FlamingJulian]

Settle down, no one has suggested you don't train… the point was that the people you're discussing with here are well and truly ahead of you and your experience at this point, and to keep that in mind. With regards to the ninjutsu comment, I've been training in that art for two and a half decades, teaching for the past 10 years. I also train in a number of classical Japanese traditions, as well as having experience in many other modern, classical, and traditional (not necessarily the same thing) systems, ranging from boxing to BJJ to Aikido to TKD to Karate to Kyudo to RBSD systems and more over the past three decades or so.



Yeah… the whole "my family members have taught me their techniques" thing rarely goes over well… but the point is that you are not them, they are not here putting themselves forth as informed persons, you are. So the question is, just how much understanding and knowledge do you actually have?



Sure. But the question is how informed those opinions are. If they're not actually based in anything beyond reading wikipedia, you'll find that you'll get called on them pretty quickly… we go well beyond wiki here…



No, Wiki is not "legit"… but the more important question is, what are these styles you have taken? How long have you trained in them? That's part of why you were suggested to post an introduction on the Meet and Greet section…

You mention that your cousin "takes ninjutsu"… the same questions apply… who with, how long has he trained, what rank etc?

Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily. I'm not trying to say that I have decades of experience because that would be impossible. I'm just giving my opinions based on my knowledge that I currently have. I know that many of you guys think I'm just the average TKD guy who's going to say TKD is awesome but TBH I think JKD is much better. I put my opinions here for your guy's knowledge because I am looking to educate myself on this topic. I guess I should've just asked for opinions. Sorry.


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[FlamingJulian]

No one is getting upset, unless it's you, I wasn't suggesting you don't train martial arts rather it's you that seems to think that posters here need to be instructed which isn't upsetting just funny.

Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.


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