Why is it taekwondo do NOT go well with Okinawan karate or Kenpo karate

[Tez3]

Does the uke need to know how a choke or other technique works? I think it would just be a nice surprise when it was put on.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I had some hopes for this one but it was quickly dashed. The worst of it was the knife and baseball bat defenses. Stabbed and/or smashed in skull. Dropping to the floor and kicking at a ballbat attack? <boggle> If it's just a demo to look spiffy, then it's all good. Whatever. Everyone wants to look cool and flashy in demos. But as bona fide self defense? No way.

In fairness, most unarmed vs weapons material is low-percentage at best and dangerous nonsense at worst. I'll bet money the scissors takedown vs the bat was just tossed in there to be entertaining and flashy for the demo. The second bat defense (use one attacker's body to block the attack, then snatch the bat while the wielder is trying not to hit his buddy) is probably higher percentage than a lot of stuff that's taught out there. I couldn't see the second knife defense clearly. The first one (block an overhand stab and apply a figure-four armlock) is very low percentage, but it appears in martial arts traditions all over the world. Makes me think that someone must have made it work at some point or it wouldn't keep showing up.

The real break from self-defense reality is the basic setup - defender standing in the middle and staying there disposing of each attacker as they take turns rushing in. I guess that's what you need for an entertaining demo. I guess the audience isn't as entertained by seeing the defender heading full speed for the exit when facing 4-to-1 odds.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Does the uke need to know how a choke or other technique works? I think it would just be a nice surprise when it was put on.

If the uke is the one supposedly applying the choke which tori is demonstrating a defense against, then yes, it is a good thing if they have at least some vague idea of what they are doing.

 

[Tez3]

If the uke is the one supposedly applying the choke which tori is demonstrating a defense against, then yes, it is a good thing if they have at least some vague idea of what they are doing.

Ah but 'vague' adds that bit of the unknown into it. It always looks good if the technique is not being done properly and the one it's being done to has to correct it by moving the 'attacker's' arm a bit! Yep, I've seen that at demo's.

 

[lklawson]

Does the uke need to know how a choke or other technique works?

Yes. If you're going to learn how to defend against an attack, don't learn how to defend against something that kinda sorta looks like it but isn't really. Defend against a punch, not against a weak stick-the-arm-out-break-his-own-wrist.

And it's not as if this is secret deep knowledge or anything. Heck, "Professional Wrestlers" have been using "The Sleeper Hold" since before I was born.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

Heck, "Professional Wrestlers" have been using "The Sleeper Hold" since before I was born.

Just twenty one years then?

My comment was more tongue in cheek though. As I said before I have seen in demos the tori adjust the uke's hold so that it looked better on the demo, thought it was really funny. it's on par with those that tell you how to attack them...so you come at me with a front roundhouse kick and leave your left arm out for me to grab...........

 

[geezer]

...The first one (block an overhand stab and apply a figure-four armlock) is very low percentage, but it appears in martial arts traditions all over the world. Makes me think that someone must have made it work at some point or it wouldn't keep showing up.

Yep. It shows up everywhere. Check out .55 to about 1:05. BTW I stole this clip from a post by Argus down on the FMA forum. European dagger:

Seminar Ausschnitte

Maybe if it was done right... and very aggressively, maybe even pre-emptively, it could work. At the very least raising your arm is better than getting stabbed in the face, neck or chest. I knew a kid who flipped out in junior high and attacked another kid with a pencil stabbing downward like this. The kid being attacked tried to parry raising his arm this way. The pencil stuck deep into his forearm and broke off. Nasty, but nothing compared what could have happened if he hadn't parried in time.

 

[lklawson]

Just twenty one years then?

I like you.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[O Saru]

What if I told you...Okinawan Karate has more throws than strikes?

 

[Touch Of Death]

What if I told you...Okinawan Karate has more throws than strikes?

I would have a conniption.

 

[Tez3]

I would have a conniption.

You can get cream for that.

 

[Koshiki]

As a TKD practitioner, I can say that most of my fighting is very close, upright grappling range. Do I kick? Yup. Mostly to the knees, hips, feet, etc...

Do I throw fancy high kicks, yeah, as you can tell by my profile pic, but only when I'm being goofy. They're really more of an occasional playing around thing in our style, like really fancy grappling or locks, etc, definitely not a staple or included in our serious training...

 

[Star Dragon]

Why shouldn't Taekwondo go well with Okinawan or Hawaiian Kenpo? It's the perfect marriage - Yang and Yin, long and short range, feet and hands...

Now to get a child, consider to add some grappling style...

That's somewhat simplified, but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Why shouldn't Taekwondo go well with Okinawan or Hawaiian Kenpo? It's the perfect marriage - Yang and Yin, long and short range, feet and hands...

Now to get a child, consider to add some grappling style...

That's somewhat simplified, but I'm sure you get the idea.

No. Whole told you that?

 

[Star Dragon]

No. Whole told you that?

Hmm... I guess it must have been Sun Tzu, the author of The Art of War. His main principle: In order to win, complement Yang with Yin, and vice versa.

It has been said that it's best to fight a kicker in a phone booth. How is your typical Tae Kwon Do practitioner going to cope? The only problem with that, of course, is that there are hardly any phone booths left nowadays...

By the same token, I once watched a full contact match between a Kyokushinkai and a Wing Chun fighter. The WC man's aggressive flurry of punches put the former under a lot of pressure, so he stepped away and fired one devastating front kick to the mid section which sent Mr. Kung Fu to the mat immediately.

These examples illustrate that it's good to have different kinds of tools in your tool box, so you can adapt better to the job at hand (or foot).

 

[TSDTexan]

What if I told you...Okinawan Karate has more throws than strikes?

What if I told you I have been the recipient of more oki throws than strikes?
But which Oki Te? There are several.

 

[TSDTexan]

Hmm... I guess it must have been Sun Tzu, the author of The Art of War. His main principle: In order to win, complement Yang with Yin, and vice versa.

It has been said that it's best to fight a kicker in a phone booth. How is your typical Tae Kwon Do practitioner going to cope? The only problem with that, of course, is that there are hardly any phone booths left nowadays...

By the same token, I once watched a full contact match between a Kyokushinkai and a Wing Chun fighter. The WC man's aggressive flurry of punches put the former under a lot of pressure, so he stepped away and fired one devastating front kick to the mid section which sent Mr. Kung Fu to the mat immediately.

These examples illustrate that it's good to have different kinds of tools in your tool box, so you can adapt better to the job at hand (or foot).

A turning heel kick to the liver will do it just like a shovel punch. Drop em like a 50 lb sack of potatoes.

But a conditioned Toe-point front kick is murderous.

 

[Koshiki]

It has been said that it's best to fight a kicker in a phone booth. How is your typical Tae Kwon Do practitioner going to cope?

Well, your typical advanced TKD practitioner can probably get a foot up to the side of the head of the person they're grappling with in a phone booth, either an inverted kick, inside, or outside crescent.

Not that I'd recommend it.

If that practitioner's TKD is like this practioners TKD, they'll probably cope by being happy that they can work at their favorite range, really close but still upright.

My point being that although the super federation-ized forms of TKD got fancier and fancier with their kicks, some of the older split offs, many of which call themselves TKD, are a lot more like karate with a penchant for stomping at knees...

In other words, TKD is not all WTF. And what's left isn't all ITF. And what's left after those two really isn't all ATA...

 

[Dirty Dog]

It has been said that it's best to fight a kicker in a phone booth. How is your typical Tae Kwon Do practitioner going to cope?

By using any of the myriad non-kicking techniques we teach. Knees. Elbows. Even (dare I say it???) hands. Headbutts. Joint locks. Chokes. Eye gouges. Nerve strikes. Stabbing you. Shooting you. Wrapping the phone cord around your neck. Using the handset as an improvised flail. Using the phone to call 911. Opening the change slot, and when you put your finger in to retrieve the quarter, slam it shut.

It's even possible that it might occur to us to step out of the phone booth.

 

[Koshiki]

It's even possible that it might occur to us to step out of the phone booth.

I like the phone booth idea. Everyone has there comfort zone. For some people, it's distance kicking range. For some, it's on the ground. I suck at both those ranges. The range I'm good at is the range forced on you by the proverbial phone booth, as I understand it. I haven't actually seen one since I was a child, that I recall...