Bad wallstreet occupyer behavior

[Bob Hubbard]

Oh, you mean like open a bank, fail, and get bailed out by the government?

This is not a Free Market or a Meritocracy. We live in a crony corporatist state that masquerades as capitalist, but is more akin to a Mafia. Serve it or defend it at your own peril.

That's what these protests are about.

I didn't realize I was so limited in the US.
Where do I go to see what businesses I'm allowed to open?
Who is the "Don" I need to ring kiss to get permission?
When will I be executed for daring to think for my self?

Sorry, but if the country is as bad as you paint it, we'd all be in camps and most of us would have been shot years ago.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put in my request to requisition a travel permit so that I can obtain gas for my car. The line is only 4 hours long Tovarich, so I may be back tonight, unless I can't afford the signature tax on top of the breathing tax. /sarcasm.

 

[Steve]

And some people are just lazy slackers who do just enough to stay employed.
Some are 'union' which means it's hard to remove the biggest losers in the crew. (See how hard it is to fire a teacher for poor performance in NYC).
Some teachers DO pay students.

Bob. Come on. You're arguing just to argue. You made a sweeping statement regarding retail. I completely disagree and explained my position. Now you're talking about teachers, unions and paid students? Come on, Bob.

While unions make it more difficult, the reason unions gain more power than they should is typically ineffective management. But most retailers are not unionized. You're throwing out a red herring grenade.

In retail, the epidemic is poor management. Particularly in this economy, there is a large pool of potentially great employees out there. If you don't recognize them when you see them, and can't develop them when you have them, you deserve the lazy, entitled employees you have.

Let me put it this way. I won't blame any manager for having poor employees today. But if, in 6 months, you have the SAME poor employees, you have some kind of problem with expectations and accountability. If, in 6 months, you have DIFFERENT poor employees, you have hiring issues and should examine your interviewing process or really think about your hiring criteria. You are probably also failing to develop your employees.

People are people, whether kids or adults. Most of the common sense things we do as parents also work in management. Setting clear expectations. "Son, be back by 9pm." "Bob, I need you to use the cover sheet on the TPS reports."

Hold them accountable. "Son, you weren't home by 9pm. Next time you ask to go out, I'm going to say no." "Bob, I've asked you three times to use the cover sheet. I'm going to document this conversation in your file, and consider this a direct order."

Understand the difference between can't do and won't do: "Son, you came home at 10pm." "Yeah. Dad. About that. Take your 9pm and shove it up your ***." (That's won't do ) "Yeah, dad. I know, and I'm sorry, but I get caught up at work. I know I'm supposed to get off at 8:30, but the boss keeps asking me to stay late." Or even, "Dad, I don't know how to tell time." Those are both "can't do" situations...a little silly, admittedly.

If you work with unions, I'll up that to 2 years. Even within the most oppressive bargaining environment, if management is competent, it wouldn't take more than 2 years to terminate an incompetent employee. In that list I wrote previously, in a union setting, numbers 3, 5 and 7 are the death knell of management and provide, often justified, grievances and ULPs filed by labor.

I'll also add that even with an under performing crew, a good manager will make an immediate impact. Morale will improve, performance indicators will improve, and some "lazy" employees will turn out to be excellent ones.

Bottom line is that I disagree completely with the validity of your claim that "lazy employees" are the biggest problem in retail now. I believe that the only managers who would say this are ones who should be replaced.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob. Come on. You're arguing just to argue. You made a sweeping statement regarding retail. I completely disagree and explained my position. Now you're talking about teachers, unions and paid students? Come on, Bob.

I can't. Gotta wait in this line for my permit to request a requisition form to walk down the street.

While unions make it more difficult, the reason unions gain more power than they should is typically ineffective management. But most retailers are not unionized. You're throwing out a red herring grenade.

That's a fishy statement.

In retail, the epidemic is poor management. Particularly in this economy, there is a large pool of potentially great employees out there. If you don't recognize them when you see them, and can't develop them when you have them, you deserve the lazy, entitled employees you have.

Agree/Disagree. Poor management and poor employees. Rest, yes.

Let me put it this way. I won't blame any manager for having poor employees today. But if, in 6 months, you have the SAME poor employees, you have some kind of problem with expectations and accountability. If, in 6 months, you have DIFFERENT poor employees, you have hiring issues and should examine your interviewing process or really think about your hiring criteria.

Agree

If you work with unions, I'll up that to 2 years. Even within the most oppressive bargaining environment, if management is competent, it wouldn't take more than 2 years to terminate an incompetent employee. In that list I wrote previously, in a union setting, numbers 3, 5 and 7 are the death knell of management and provide, often justified, grievances and ULPs filed by labor.

My opinion on unions is quite negative. What I've heard from those who deal with them, disputes your finding.

I'll also add that even with an under performing crew, a good manager will make an immediate impact. Morale will improve, performance indicators will improve, and some "lazy" employees will turn out to be excellent ones.

Agree

Bottom line is that I disagree completely with the validity of your claim that "lazy employees" are the biggest problem in retail now. I believe that the only managers who would say this are ones who should be replaced.

I did not say "biggest problem". I said it's hard (not impossible, just hard) to remove the "biggest losers".

 

[Steve]

Okay. I'll just agree to disagree. Where employees are involved, I believe that no one wakes up in the morning and says to themselves, "Today, I'm going to be the suckiest, lousiest, laziest employee ever." And if they do, they can be dealt with.

Same goes for managers.

Let me try this from a different direction. Bob, if you care to know, my personal opinion is that the biggest problem we face in any industry right now is a leadership vacuum. It's not poor employees. It's leadership being promoted too soon and mentors retiring before they can pass on their tacit knowledge and experience.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm not the one with the reading comprehension problem.

that's OK Bob. You tell yourself whatever lie you need to, to get thru this difficult moment.

 

[Empty Hands]

do something worth 500 million and you will get it.

PS

your envy and jealousy are showing

You missed the point, yet again. FWIW, I passed on a job with a very high, guaranteed income to go into science because the guaranteed job would have made me miserable. How can I be envious when I'm the one to choose to give it up? I was countering Bob's point with the observation that many people work very hard. Working hard doesn't guarantee a thing.

 

[Makalakumu]

I didn't realize I was so limited in the US.
Where do I go to see what businesses I'm allowed to open?
Who is the "Don" I need to ring kiss to get permission?
When will I be executed for daring to think for my self?

Sorry, but if the country is as bad as you paint it, we'd all be in camps and most of us would have been shot years ago.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put in my request to requisition a travel permit so that I can obtain gas for my car. The line is only 4 hours long Tovarich, so I may be back tonight, unless I can't afford the signature tax on top of the breathing tax. /sarcasm.

Apparently you haven't tried open any lemonade stands lately. Whose ring do you kiss to do that?

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[Makalakumu]

When'd you get to NYC?

I didn't. It's a smaller, local, Occupy event. Going to NYC would be awesome, though!

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[Bob Hubbard]

that's OK Bob. You tell yourself whatever lie you need to, to get thru this difficult moment.

What difficult moment is that?
Dude, seriously, I run 2 businesses. They are doing fine.
I own the best car I've ever owned (Prius). My wife owns the best she's ever had (Highlander).
My pantry and fridge are full. My quality of life has -never- been higher in 41 years.
My debt is minimal, well under control and being regularly reduced. (should be debt free in 1-2 years, unless we buy a house)
So, no, I'm afraid my life isn't having a 'difficult moment'.
Sorry.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I didn't. It's a smaller, local, Occupy event. Going to NYC would be awesome, though!

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It's not the same thing then. My ire isn't directed at the 'lite' versions, just the originals.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Apparently you haven't tried open any lemonade stands lately. Whose ring do you kiss to do that?

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In most of the US, no ones if you're a kid.
In most of the US, if you're an adult, you need a tax ID, some health dept inspections and a DBA and you're good to go.
Most businesses, at most you'll need a tax ID and a DBA.

In WNY, that's like under $50 and obtainable in under 24 hrs most days. (I had my tax ID within minutes online)

Like I said, it's hard. Real hard.

 

[Twin Fist]

it like the old saying "practice makes perfect"

its horse ****

practice wrong and it doesnt matter how hard you practice, it will still look like crap

PERFECT practice makes perfect

it doesnt matter how hard you work if you are doing it in an area that wont pay well

DUH

anyone that wants to succeed, and is willing to put in the time and effort CAN achieve success.

I am doing it.

being a nurse is no small shakes, and i got here through hard work

after i graduate, i will make a damned good living, and never be out of work

working hard and working SMART is as close to a guarantee as there is in this world

You missed the point, yet again. FWIW, I passed on a job with a very high, guaranteed income to go into science because the guaranteed job would have made me miserable. How can I be envious when I'm the one to choose to give it up? I was countering Bob's point with the observation that many people work very hard. Working hard doesn't guarantee a thing.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Are there a lot of good people having a hard time of it though no fault of their own?

Yes.

But the difference between the winners and the whiners is a simple one.

The winner keeps fighting, keeps searching, keeps digging, keeps running, keeps getting up.

The whiner keeps quiting, keeps making excuses, keeps stopping, keeps complaining.

I could list my challenges. A couple weeks ago I almost died. Spent the night in the ER, my blood pressure 250/185 and higher, it didn't want to come down. (TF-John, how bad is that number?) A local disgruntled photographer who is going above and beyond to defame me and damage my business, some issues on the family side that are quite concerning (relatives health concerns of the bad kind). Etc.

It's easy to quit, it's easy to make excuses. Nah. I'm where I'm at because I made decisions, some of them the wrong ones, some the right ones, that have put me right where I'm at. I deal with it. I work on it. As long as I'm alive, I've got a chance.

And no excuse riddled, math-poor, economics-blind protester is going to dissuade me that hard work, perseverance, smart decisions, and a willingness to take some gambles isn't better than walking about waving a sign protesting something vague and confused in a park.

This site exists, Kenpotalk exists, my hosting company existed, my photography business exists, despite countless people telling me they can't work, the deck is stacked against me, that I can't win, that "they" won't let me.

I make a living -doing- the very things that so many people tell me won't work.

So, please, make your signs, sip your tea or coffee or rally against people with money, I don't really care.
But never say you represent me.
And never tell me it can't be done.
I already did it.

 

[billc]

Correct me if I'm wrong Bob, did you say it was easy?:bangahead:

 

[Makalakumu]

This thread is officially the Twilight Zone. Conservatives are defending government regulation and wasteful spending!

This is how nationalism skews reason. Principles don't matter as long as we're waving the flag!

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[Twin Fist]

my blood pressure 250/185 and higher, it didn't want to come down. (TF-John, how bad is that number?)

thats just this side of your heart actually exploding in your chest. Thats as high as i have ever seen.

 

[Omar B]

I couldnt zgree with you more Bob. I had a pan, in fact I had several overlapping 5 year plans. I owned my own 3 bedroom house in NY y the time I was 20 waiting tables with the occasional freelance writing gig and studio session thrown in. I did not earn much money but I lived frugally and supported myself, my ex finacee and sister quite well. Now I have 2 homes (including my condo in Fort Lauderdale), it's not like I'm rich or anything, just keeping an eye on my spending and aways working.

Hard to get a job? How about being Indian in NY after 9/11 with a very Indian last name like my own. I couldn't get a job for crap! People just assume, dark skin, eastern name, must be a terrorist. Yet I kept at it for more than a year while waiting and busing tables and caddying at a country club, working 3 jobs, every day of the week. All this on a college degree. Work is out there, people don't wanna do it because of pride because of their big degrees. It's as if they are not given a CEO job out of high school or if they see it as beneath them then there are no jobs.

 

[billc]

I hope you are feeling and doing better Bob.

 

[elder999]

I'm gonna disagree with you here man. Your statement seems to assert that because he's white it may not be Brooklyn. As if the NY population is neatly segregated. It could be anywhere in the city. Oh, and most of the people I know from Brooklyn are white, ike my bud Sal who owns a pizza place in Bed Stuy.

I bet Sal doesn't live in Bed-Stuy.

No worries, though. I just think that if the dude is a homeless dude, the likelihood of his actually being in Bed-Stuy is diminished.

I think it's a homeless dude. THere's a crowd in the background, but they seem to be confined to the sidewalk. It's hard to tell anyhthing else, but I'm betting this is from that photograpber's archive, and it's in Brooklyn-or a homeless dude who had nothing to do with the demonstraters.

You may now resume the polarization process towards ultimate corporate take over....

 

[Big Don]

How would one tell one of the unwashed protesters from a homeless guy?
IMHO, a homeless guy, isn't nearly as likely to do something as intentionally provocative to a police car, no matter where it is located.