Bad wallstreet occupyer behavior

[Monroe]

It was government involvement that caused the depression we're in, and it's government involvement that is causing it to last past the normal 2-3 year period.

They have
1 flooded the economy with more money, trillions of dollars. Result, higher prices.
2 bailed out 'cant fail' businesses. Result, higher debt, businesses still screwing up.
3 Allowed other businesses to fail. Result, displaced workers.
4 2 + 3 equals interference in the normal righting process, delaying the redistribution of resources needed to right the economy naturally.
5 paid out multiple 'stimuluses'. Result, short term ease, long term debt.
6 taken control of numerous companies. Result, government is now in the banking, investment, loan and auto industries. Unconstitutional. Further interference delaying the normal correction.


As to CEO earnings, here's a few questions:
- Why is no one marching on the NFL to bring Quarterback pay into line too? I think it's ridiculous too. Did any quarterbacks expect a bailout?
- Does a CEO earning $1B mean there is $1B less for you? Absolutely not.
- How many of those CEO's make a pittance in salary, but earn nice bonuses if the company does well? I don't mind those bonuses until they get bail outs or their company goes under and they still get a bonus.
-- Would you want to work under the same terms? (Note, I do. My salary is $1 per year.) Are you going to still going to be rewarded if your company lays off thousands of employees because it's going under?
- Do you really think that the 'rank and file' who 'works 9-5' deserve the same compensation as a CEO who may work 7 days a week and put in 12+ hour days? No. I expect them to be more in line with the average worker as I see in Canada and the UK.
- Should the US limit peoples ability to earn because other countries do too? I don't see CEO's earnings being legally limited in Canada. Just being reasonable.

I didn't agree with government bailing out businesses in the first place.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Did any quarterbacks expect a bailout?

No clue. Not a football fan.

I don't mind those bonuses until they get bail outs or their company goes under and they still get a bonus.

Unless you understand the particulars of those cases, and each is different, you can't keep them in perspective.
In some of those cases, there were contractual requirements. In some, it was greed.

Are you going to still going to be rewarded if your company lays off thousands of employees because it's going under?

Nope, just the 1 employee gets canned, and I don't get a reward for he is me.

No. I expect them to be more in line with the average worker as I see in Canada and the UK.

Average people don't become CEO's. Or Quarterbacks in the NFL for that matter.
Average people muddle along in the 20-50k range, work 9-5, live modestly and half the time don't bother to vote.

I don't see CEO's earnings being legally limited in Canada. Just being reasonable.

What is 'reasonable'?
I say, if someone can earn it legally, let them. Sky's the limit.

 

[Monroe]

No clue. Not a football fan.


Unless you understand the particulars of those cases, and each is different, you can't keep them in perspective.
In some of those cases, there were contractual requirements. In some, it was greed.

I know about the contractual agreements. It shouldn't be allowed.


Nope, just the 1 employee gets canned, and I don't get a reward for he is me.

I'd be a lot more happy if CEO's were actually held responsible for their failures.

Average people don't become CEO's. Or Quarterbacks in the NFL for that matter.
Average people muddle along in the 20-50k range, work 9-5, live modestly and half the time don't bother to vote.

I didn't say they should earn the same as the average person. When there are such extreme differences between the average person and CEO's income, it starts to make the US look like pre-revolutionary France.

What is 'reasonable'?
I say, if someone can earn it legally, let them. Sky's the limit.

I say, if the people are struggling to get by and the rich grow in wealth at these extremes, a divide between rich and poor becomes hostile. Social mobility is falling in the US and you're looking more and more like old Europe. If something isn't done, America is going to burn and I'd hate to see that happen.

 

[Flying Crane]

But right now, if I want to put the time in, and do what I need to do, I can make a few million by Christmas.

no, you couldn't. If it's that easy, then do it. Prove me wrong.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

no, you couldn't. If it's that easy, then do it. Prove me wrong.

Ok, MartialTalk is now paid-member only.
That will be $22 * 13,000 = $286,000.
I shoot 1 wedding a day for the rest of the year, that's another $100-120k
So $400k.
Max out all forum ad space, there's the rest.
Work in some quick flips, some fast payoff investments, and it's doable.
I'd be dead by New Years from 20 hr days, stress and too much caffeine.

I never said it was easy.
I said " if I want to put the time in, and do what I need to do".

Hey, go put 40 hours a week in, every week, looking for a job. Walk miles, put in applications -everywhere-, look your best, make sure each resume you put in is optimized to that particular employer, research the company, practice your interviewing skills, get a suit coat and have it cleaned and pressed ($7 at 2nd hand shop, $5 at dry cleaners. $12 you look 100% better). Cut your hair, lose the earings, cover the tats, learn how to speak english, realize that you might have been a mid-level manager before, but now that burger needs to be flipped and you win too good to do it.
You'll have a job in a short period of time.

Know what the biggest complaint of retail managers is?
Dumb *** lazy employees who think they are owed some special treatment for showing up only 20 minutes late.
I've worked retail next to too many of these 'specialists', who think mopping a floor is below them, that wiping a table means smearing it, and that their texting their friends is more important than doing the job they are being paid to do.

See FC, here's the rub.
I don't have to prove you wrong.
Right now, somewhere, someone else is doing just that.
It's not me, sorry, not 'hungry' enough right now to do that. Not focused enough.

 

[Flying Crane]

See FC, here's the rub.
I don't have to prove you wrong.
Right now, somewhere, someone else is doing just that.
It's not me, sorry, not 'hungry' enough right now to do that. Not focused enough.

You claimed you could do it. So do it. I don't believe you can. Not for a minute. It's not that easy.

 

[Empty Hands]

Ok, MartialTalk is now paid-member only.
That will be $22 * 13,000 = $286,000.
I shoot 1 wedding a day for the rest of the year, that's another $100-120k
So $400k.
Max out all forum ad space, there's the rest.
Work in some quick flips, some fast payoff investments, and it's doable.

There are some truly massive assumptions built into those calculations. How many weddings occur in October or January from Monday-Thursday? How many of those 13,000 MT members would actually pay instead of just going somewhere else that is free? And so on.

 

[Steve]

Being serious, Bob. Of the 13,000 "members" of MT, how many post regularly? I'm guessing fewer than 5%. I'd actually not be surprised if it was closer to 1%.

Secondly, is it realistic to suggest that you could shoot a wedding every single day for the rest of the year? Presuming people get married during the week (which is atypical), could you even book these gigs?

I can just as easily throw out some unrealistic figures, throw in some grossly hyperbolic overtime numbers and get them to equal $1,000,000, but that's not really what's being discussed.

Regarding retail, I'll tell you what my opinion is. Poor management. Actually, I take that back. No management. That's the problem with many retail stores. You can tell within seconds of walking into a retail store whether it is well managed or not. It is reflected in everything from the tidyness of the store to the displays to the behavior and demeanor of the employees.

Well managed stores develop good employees. We've all been in McDonalds that have been well run and poorly run. You know the difference. Same product. Same process. Vastly different results. It's not rocket science. Good managers are invisible, quietly keeping things running smoothly. Bad managers complain... but never about themselves.

If you're a retail manager and you're complaining about lazy employees, you have only yourself to blame. You're hiring the wrong people. Or more likely, you're failing to develop the right people.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You claimed you could do it. So do it. I don't believe you can. Not for a minute. It's not that easy.

What part of "I never said it was easy" is not coming through here?

Here, let me help.

Its Not Easy!

There are some truly massive assumptions built into those calculations. How many weddings occur in October or January from Monday-Thursday? How many of those 13,000 MT members would actually pay instead of just going somewhere else that is free? And so on.

Yes. I said possible. I did not say probable.

Being serious, Bob. Of the 13,000 "members" of MT, how many post regularly? I'm guessing fewer than 5%. I'd actually not be surprised if it was closer to 1%.

Secondly, is it realistic to suggest that you could shoot a wedding every single day for the rest of the year? Presuming people get married during the week (which is atypical), could you even book these gigs?

I can just as easily throw out some unrealistic figures, throw in some grossly hyperbolic overtime numbers and get them to equal $1,000,000, but that's not really what's being discussed.

I'm being sarcastic. Dealing with people with reading comprehension issues as a means to obscure a dozen solid points brings it out in me.
5% is your answer. It's about the same on most large forums. Most are lurkers, occasional, etc. This site has thousands daily.

2- no, it's not. Possible vs probable.

So $1M is unreasonable/unrealistic. Fine. How about something less lofty, say $10,000.
That's 10 weddings at $1k each, spread out over 12 weeks. Doable, IF I push that market, which I'm not currently doing. That's 5-10 websites, which is a market I'm pushing. Which I will do btw, minimally.
Even IF I only say shoot 1 more wedding, and only get 5 site jobs, that's still $6k more than I'd have sitting on my *** in a park with a bunch of irate confused people who think that my having $5 means theres $5 less for them.

My point, which was missed because of the reading comprehension issues previously noted, is that you need to work to get ahead. It's not the governments job to take care of you. It's your responsibility.

Regarding retail, I'll tell you what my opinion is. Poor management. Actually, I take that back. No management. That's the problem with many retail stores. You can tell within seconds of walking into a retail store whether it is well managed or not. It is reflected in everything from the tidyness of the store to the displays to the behavior and demeanor of the employees.

Well managed stores develop good employees. We've all been in McDonalds that have been well run and poorly run. You know the difference. Same product. Same process. Vastly different results. It's not rocket science. Good managers are invisible, quietly keeping things running smoothly. Bad managers complain... but never about themselves.

If you're a retail manager and you're complaining about lazy employees, you have only yourself to blame. You're hiring the wrong people. Or more likely, you're failing to develop the right people.

This is why it's the teachers fault when students fail to show up for class, because they are poor teachers right?

 

[Flying Crane]

So $1M is unreasonable/unrealistic. Fine. How about something less lofty, say $10,000.

What you said was, "a few million by Christmas". Not $1M.

The problem here is that you are very cavalierly throwing out numbers like this and pretending that it's just easy as pie to make money here in the good ole U.S of A., hell, the money just falls out of the sky if you hold your hands out and grab for it.

That attitude is total BS, when we are talking about people who are struggling to make ends meet.

You made a BS statement. I called BS.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

What you said was, "a few million by Christmas". Not $1M.

The problem here is that you are very cavalierly throwing out numbers like this and pretending that it's just easy as pie to make money here in the good ole U.S of A., hell, the money just falls out of the sky if you hold your hands out and grab for it.

That attitude is total BS, when we are talking about people who are struggling to make ends meet.

You made a BS statement. I called BS.

Just because you, or I can not do it, does not make it impossible.

You are being an *** and intentionally skewing my meaning.

Again, for the reading impaired.

I Never Said It Was Easy!

I said it was possible.
I didn't say it was probable.
I said possible.

Do I need to start posting links to dictionary.com along with disclaimers?

[h=3]U.S. millionaires population expanded by 8% in 2010 - Mar. 16, 2011[/h]

The number of U.S. households worth at least $1 million rose to 8.4 million in 2010, compared to 7.8 million the prior year, according to a report by Spectrem Group.

2010 "marked the second consecutive year of increases, the group said, following a 16% surge in the millionaire population in 2009."

Now, "expand" means "grew". This means that there were more.
"millionaire" is defined as someone with an income and assets are more than one million dollars. (Noun:A person whose assets are worth one million dollars or more.)
8% is this many * * * * * * * *
2010 is last year. Not this year. But the year before this one.

Are we clear yet? Do I need to be more clear?

Google "companies expanding in 2011"
Read a bit.

[h=3]Meet the New Young Millionaires - AOL Small Business[/h][h=3]Number of millionaires is projected to rise rapidly - May. 5, 2011[/h]
But you're right. It sucks out there. All these people out of work, struggling, hoping that someone will throw them a bone, because there's no chance the little guy can get ahead. No hope. No chance in hell for someone to start with nothing, and make it. Nope. So hard.
(That's more sarcasm, so I'm clear here, since it's been so confusing and all.)


Now if you'll excuse me, I have actual work that involves paying clients to deal with.

One last time though.
For the reading impaired.

I Never Said It Was Easy!

 

[Flying Crane]

You are being an *** and intentionally skewing my meaning.

no sir. You are.

 

[Makalakumu]

It's interesting to read the texts and messages I'm getting from the people I met while out at the Occupy event. If you go out and share your opinion and are respectful about it, it makes a difference, even if you disagree.

 

[Steve]

This is why it's the teachers fault when students fail to show up for class, because they are poor teachers right?

Very different. Teachers don't have the power to hire or fire their students. Teachers don't pay their students for their work. While I do often use employment as a metaphor with my kids, the metaphor breaks down when it comes to expectations. In the context of this discussion, I am much closer (though there are some key differences) to being my kids' manager, not their teacher.

Some key mistakes that poor managers make. 1: They don't set clear expectations. 2: They don't hold the employees accountable. 3: They don't document poor performance until AFTER they've decided an employee should be fired. 4: They are afraid to make unpopular decisions. 5: They are inconsistent and play favorites. 6: They don't understand their role. 7: They don't understand or can't distinguish between performance issues and conduct issues (ie, can't do vs won't do) and so they mismanage the situation.

There is a HUGE difference between a well run business and a well run classroom. Biggest difference is that much of what happens in a business is within the managers DIRECT control. Not so in a classroom.

 

[Twin Fist]

Where is my $500 million if that's how it's supposed to work?

do something worth 500 million and you will get it.

PS

your envy and jealousy are showing

 

[Makalakumu]

do something worth 500 million and you will get it.

PS

your envy and jealousy are showing

Oh, you mean like open a bank, fail, and get bailed out by the government?

This is not a Free Market or a Meritocracy. We live in a crony corporatist state that masquerades as capitalist, but is more akin to a Mafia. Serve it or defend it at your own peril.

That's what these protests are about.

 

[Steve]

Oh, you mean like open a bank, fail, and get bailed out by the government?

This is not a Free Market or a Meritocracy. We live in a crony corporatist state that masquerades as capitalist, but is more akin to a Mafia. Serve it or defend it at your own peril.

That's what these protests are about.

Do you think I could get the VA to help me get a business loan for my new bank? I think, Makalakumu, you have stumbled upon a fool proof way to get rich.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

It's interesting to read the texts and messages I'm getting from the people I met while out at the Occupy event. If you go out and share your opinion and are respectful about it, it makes a difference, even if you disagree.

When'd you get to NYC?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Very different. Teachers don't have the power to hire or fire their students. Teachers don't pay their students for their work. While I do often use employment as a metaphor with my kids, the metaphor breaks down when it comes to expectations. In the context of this discussion, I am much closer (though there are some key differences) to being my kids' manager, not their teacher.

Some key mistakes that poor managers make. 1: They don't set clear expectations. 2: They don't hold the employees accountable. 3: They don't document poor performance until AFTER they've decided an employee should be fired. 4: They are afraid to make unpopular decisions. 5: They are inconsistent and play favorites. 6: They don't understand their role. 7: They don't understand or can't distinguish between performance issues and conduct issues (ie, can't do vs won't do) and so they mismanage the situation.

There is a HUGE difference between a well run business and a well run classroom. Biggest difference is that much of what happens in a business is within the managers DIRECT control. Not so in a classroom.

And some people are just lazy slackers who do just enough to stay employed.
Some are 'union' which means it's hard to remove the biggest losers in the crew. (See how hard it is to fire a teacher for poor performance in NYC).
Some teachers DO pay students.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

no sir. You are.

I'm not the one with the reading comprehension problem.