Assist instructor requirement

[Tez3]

A second question: if your martial arts school includes a teacher training program for those interested in becoming an instructor, upon what is it based? Has the school owner/head instructor undertaken a formal university-level course of study in coaching/teaching etc., and is your program based on that? Is it required for an aspiring teacher to take such university courses, in addition to your school’s program?

This is one reason I think we don't say here that martial arts have teachers but instructors or coaches. We are talking about martial arts as a sport or a physical activity just the same as horse riding is, another activity that is as least as old as martial arts and where most instruction, methods and practice is based on military forms and language. I have my assistant instructor qualification from the British Horse Society without which I wouldn't be able to instruct. The course you take in sporting activities aren't academic courses, they shouldn't be confused with 'teacher training' which is what those wishing to teach in academic schools do involving university. the coach/instructor courses are specifically for sports and are remarkably similar. They aren't courses of study but practical courses showing how best to teach physical activities and how to get the best from your students.

So I ask: how many of you instructors have actually done so?

The instructors including myself have, as have many instructors I know, our conditioning coach is a military physical training instructor in the Royal Military Physical Training Corps. (Royal Army Physical Training Corps)

Here in the UK we can attend Sport England coaching courses as well as those of the associations we belong to, nearly all hold them. We also have sports coach national qualifications, BTECs, City and Guilds and NVQs. These aren't done in university and aren't academic as such, that's a different line altogether.

 

[donald1]

Personally I enjoy being an assistant instructor and learning stuff too. Usually being an assistant instructor means often times helping lower belts with the belt requirements. Which isn't always stuff I want to go over ,but I don't mind. Being an assistant instructor is more than just a rank requirement. Your also helping your instructor. I personally like helping my instructor given the opportunity. It's my way of showing appreciation. If other people don't like assisting I guess that's fine. Some people would rather focus on their own rank requirements and stuff. However for me I'm more than happy to help other students.

 

[Gweilo]

I ask a question to the group at large, and particularly those who champion the pursuit of formal training in coaching and teaching: if you are a teacher, have you yourself taken a formal academic course of study in coaching/teaching/kinesiology/physiology, at a university level? If not a complete program, then have you done any such courses at all?

Here is my problem with your question, I am a Horticulturalist by trade, I could if I wanted to have letters after my name, I do educational talks all over the uk on Horticultural subjects to gardening societies etc, I even attend the uk Horticultural trade show, and do presentations to other professionals on how to make hanging baskets, containers, and point of sale for which I get paid stupid money for imo, I have no qualifications in teaching, but I do in Horticulture, so if your opinion is correct, I am not qualified to teach Horticulture, because I have no qualifications in teaching, yet I am fully booked for 2020, and the free time I have in 2021, and a few bookings for 2022, I am good at what I do, because I know what I am doing in Horticulture and I maintain quality. I also have several qualifications in ma (2x 3rd Dan in different arts), so as long as the quality is there, why do I need a teaching degree or qualification to teach ma? Do my qualifications mean nothing?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am of a mixed mind about this. I agree that this kind of training can be beneficial, but I do not believe it is absolutely essential, at least not for everyone, not in every case.

Martial arts were historically, in many cases, a folk art that was taught from one generation to the next, from elders to juniors. This was done without the benefit of modern Western academic studies of coaching and physiology and kinesiology and teaching. Young students were taught by parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents, neighbors/village members, etc. I suspect they taught largely from the example of how they were taught by the previous generation.

Certainly some of them were better at it than others. Some people have a knack for teaching, without any formal teaching training.

Certainly some of them were worse at it than others.

But my point is, this stuff was successfully passed along for many generations, without the benefits of Western formal education on teaching and coaching and related fields of study.

It can certainly continue to do so.

I ask a question to the group at large, and particularly those who champion the pursuit of formal training in coaching and teaching: if you are a teacher, have you yourself taken a formal academic course of study in coaching/teaching/kinesiology/physiology, at a university level? If not a complete program, then have you done any such courses at all?

A second question: if your martial arts school includes a teacher training program for those interested in becoming an instructor, upon what is it based? Has the school owner/head instructor undertaken a formal university-level course of study in coaching/teaching etc., and is your program based on that? Is it required for an aspiring teacher to take such university courses, in addition to your school’s program?

It is often suggested in these forums that such a course of study should be done. So I ask: how many of you instructors have actually done so?

Most of my career has been built on training and learning. My college education in Psychology was heavy on the topic, and I’ve continued learning - both from scientific sources, and from what others find useful and effective. My instructor prep program is built on some of the same task-learning principles I teach in my consulting/training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here is my problem with your question, I am a Horticulturalist by trade, I could if I wanted to have letters after my name, I do educational talks all over the uk on Horticultural subjects to gardening societies etc, I even attend the uk Horticultural trade show, and do presentations to other professionals on how to make hanging baskets, containers, and point of sale for which I get paid stupid money for imo, I have no qualifications in teaching, but I do in Horticulture, so if your opinion is correct, I am not qualified to teach Horticulture, because I have no qualifications in teaching, yet I am fully booked for 2020, and the free time I have in 2021, and a few bookings for 2022, I am good at what I do, because I know what I am doing in Horticulture and I maintain quality. I also have several qualifications in ma (2x 3rd Dan in different arts), so as long as the quality is there, why do I need a teaching degree or qualification to teach ma? Do my qualifications mean nothing?

I think his point was more that academic-style teacher training isn't necessary for effective teaching of MA. There's a reasonable argument that anyone purporting to teach others how to teach ought probably to have more than the "normal" qualifications - either they have an academic background in the topic, or they've produced an unusual number of unusually good instructors.

 

[Tez3]

I do educational talks all over the uk on Horticultural subjects to gardening societies etc, I even attend the uk Horticultural trade show, and do presentations to other professionals on how to make hanging baskets, containers,

We could argue though that you don't actually teach but demonstrate and lecture but personally my point is ...do you know Monty Don and if so is he as nice as he seems?

I think that if you are teaching such a physical activity as martial arts or any other sport a qualification in coaching would be good for instructors. It enhances their classes, I don't mean academic courses but vocational ones where the emphasis is on the actual coaching not the martial arts. It gives people confidence in their teaching, covers things like first aid for sports injuries, how to deal with disruptive students, how bring out the best in students, how to use the class time constructively, and gives a lot of very practical advice so you leave with a lot more understanding of the mechanics of instructing.

I know you'll understand what I say when I write that some martial arts and instructors are very up themselves, they think martial arts are some higher calling than other sports and/or hobbies, they get very airy fairy about things like 'discipline', morals, historical values ( mostly mythical) etc etc. I think those types need to come down to earth, take coaching courses and stop thinking martial arts is some kind of church or temple that has to be revered. I also don't think writing essays on the history of your style or about discipline etc is neccessary for grading, which some places do. It has no bearing at all on the quality of a person's martial arts. You aren't bestowed with mythical abilities to pass on your learning when you first tie your black belt on.

 

[Gweilo]

I think his point was more that academic-style teacher training isn't necessary for effective teaching of MA. There's a reasonable argument that anyone purporting to teach others how to teach ought probably to have more than the "normal" qualifications - either they have an academic background in the topic, or they've produced an unusual number of unusually good instructors.

So in your opinion (which I do respect), is 2nd Dan, not worthy to teach upto 1st Dan?

 

[Gweilo]

We could argue though that you don't actually teach but demonstrate and lecture but personally my point is ...do you know Monty Don

No but I do know Joe Swift, and he buys certain perennials from me, but here is my point, to teach certain techniques in horticulture, the quality of knowledge and technique is paramount, and passing on this knowledge is fundamental to good practice or results, the same is true of ma, or do we now say, well done you just got your 2nd Dan, but you need to go to night school for 3 years and get an nvq in teaching, otherwise your teaching rubbish?

 

[Buka]

I've known some really skilled Martial Artists who couldn't teach to save their life. Others who aren't anywhere as skilled in the Arts, but have an incredible knack for teaching.

I suppose that's true for most things, but maybe more so in Martial Arts.

On a personal note, having been in classes in more different places than most, my least favorite type of instructor are the "talkers".....three minutes of drilling then a ten minute pontification on one thing or another. Inside you're all cocked and locked and saying to yourself "stop talking and start counting already!"

 

[dvcochran]

it may be a regional/east or west/country thing, I've always addressed instructors as 'Sensei' which of course is neither teacher nor instructor, and we've always called them instructors to outsiders. If I said 'my teacher' to others they'd think 'school' not martial arts as teacher would be a much more academic title.
I'm not sure about calling different groups or styles 'sects' though. That is an emotive word lol

Yea, I looked up the definition and did not realize it had such a religious connotation. Just always thought of it as a word to categorize people.

 

[Tez3]

No but I do know Joe Swift, and he buys certain perennials from me, but here is my point, to teach certain techniques in horticulture, the quality of knowledge and technique is paramount, and passing on this knowledge is fundamental to good practice or results, the same is true of ma, or do we now say, well done you just got your 2nd Dan, but you need to go to night school for 3 years and get an nvq in teaching, otherwise your teaching rubbish?

We aren't talking about NVQs in 'teaching', these are coaching courses usually run over a weekend or two which enhance instructors knowledge and demonstrate how to use best practice. As I said these aren't academic courses, most sports instructors and coaches go on them. This is what one martial arts couching course offers... "role of martial arts coaches. Nutrition and hydration, physical and mental demands of sport or physical activity, safe coaching and duty of care, communication with participants and inclusive practise, planning an delivering martial arts sessions with feedback on how to develop your coaching practice." this isn't saying that the martial arts you teach is rubbish at all it's improving and enhancing your abilities to coach.
Judo is very keen on coaching and the British Judo Association does courses starting with basic right up to top level so you can coach a national team. How to get started in coaching - British Judo

EKF Coaching
Courses | Product categories | BCCMA

 

[Tez3]

I've known some really skilled Martial Artists who couldn't teach to save their life. Others who aren't anywhere as skilled in the Arts, but have an incredible knack for teaching.

That's the same in many sports, the amazingly talented footballer who then tries to manage a club and fails dismally, the fighter who has no patience or can't explain how to make a technique work, he can only do it himself. some of the best manages, instructors and coaches aren't top level players themselves but as you say can really pass on their knowledge so it benefits those they teach.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is one reason I think we don't say here that martial arts have teachers but instructors or coaches. We are talking about martial arts as a sport or a physical activity just the same as horse riding is, another activity that is as least as old as martial arts and where most instruction, methods and practice is based on military forms and language. I have my assistant instructor qualification from the British Horse Society without which I wouldn't be able to instruct. The course you take in sporting activities aren't academic courses, they shouldn't be confused with 'teacher training' which is what those wishing to teach in academic schools do involving university. the coach/instructor courses are specifically for sports and are remarkably similar. They aren't courses of study but practical courses showing how best to teach physical activities and how to get the best from your students.



The instructors including myself have, as have many instructors I know, our conditioning coach is a military physical training instructor in the Royal Military Physical Training Corps. (Royal Army Physical Training Corps)

Here in the UK we can attend Sport England coaching courses as well as those of the associations we belong to, nearly all hold them. We also have sports coach national qualifications, BTECs, City and Guilds and NVQs. These aren't done in university and aren't academic as such, that's a different line altogether.

Horse riding is an interesting example. There are certainly teaching protocols that are descended from military traditions, but there were also many many people throughout history who learned to ride from their elders, not connected to military. Before the automobile, horse riding was extremely common, including those who never had connection to the military. Everyone learned to do it.

This is my point: these can be folk traditions that were passed along from elder to junior, without any formal coaching training. This would include teaching horseriding. You say that you could not teach without your certificate. I hold that anyone who knows how to ride can teach anyone willing to learn from him/her. Passing these skills along within a family setting is likely still a common activity within families who keep horses today.

I personally don’t make a distinction between the terms teacher and instructor. With coach, I tend to affiliate with sports, but I see a lot of the terminology as interchangeable. But I have no interest in debating those definitions. My point being that these skills can certainly be taught without formal instruction on being a coach or teacher or instructor.

 

[dvcochran]

In the US, it's the school (normally) that has insurance, not the instructor. So an assistant leading class should still be covered. I've never asked about it, because I've never had a program with an assistant instructor to worry about it.

That is the way my insurer explained it to me. Just the same as insuring the car, not the driver.
I was told it could be an issue if someone can prove someone was teaching who was not qualified. I was also told this would be near impossible to prove and not to worry about it.
As a rule, I do not allow color belts and not many 1st/2nd Dan's to lead hard contact drills or full gear sparring.

 

[Flying Crane]

Here is my problem with your question, I am a Horticulturalist by trade, I could if I wanted to have letters after my name, I do educational talks all over the uk on Horticultural subjects to gardening societies etc, I even attend the uk Horticultural trade show, and do presentations to other professionals on how to make hanging baskets, containers, and point of sale for which I get paid stupid money for imo, I have no qualifications in teaching, but I do in Horticulture, so if your opinion is correct, I am not qualified to teach Horticulture, because I have no qualifications in teaching, yet I am fully booked for 2020, and the free time I have in 2021, and a few bookings for 2022, I am good at what I do, because I know what I am doing in Horticulture and I maintain quality. I also have several qualifications in ma (2x 3rd Dan in different arts), so as long as the quality is there, why do I need a teaching degree or qualification to teach ma? Do my qualifications mean nothing?

Go back and re-read what I wrote. I hold that you do NOT need that formal course of study to be able to teach these things.

For those who suggest that you do, I ask them if they have done so.

 

[Tez3]

otherwise your teaching rubbish?

No, far from it but are you teaching safely so are protected against accusations of various types, are you communicating effectively, are you aware of the duty of care or what the law regards as reasonable self defence?

I hold that anyone who knows how to ride can teach anyone willing to learn from him/her. Passing these skills along within a family setting is likely still a common activity within families who keep horses today.

It however is a totally different thing when teaching someone to ride for money, it's then a business whether you are making a profit or not. the rules change then. I taught my daughter to ride which is fine but to take a class is a very different kettle of fish.
Thanks for the lesson on horse-riding though, I've been riding for over 60 years doing many eventing comps along the way as well as dressage.

 

[Tez3]

For those who suggest that you do, I ask them if they have done so.

I don't suggest instructors must do coaching courses but I highly recommend they do especially in this day and age.

 

[Tez3]

I was told it could be an issue if someone can prove someone was teaching who was not qualified. I was also told this would be near impossible to prove and not to worry about it.

You could still be taken to court though and end up paying for lawyers even if it wasn't proven plus your reputation could be damaged. It may not get to court but you'd still have legal fees.

 

[Gweilo]

That is the way my insurer explained it to me. Just the same as insuring the car, not the driver.
I was told it could be an issue if someone can prove someone was teaching who was not qualified. I was also told this would be near impossible to prove and not to worry about it.
As a rule, I do not allow color belts and not many 1st/2nd Dan's to lead hard contact drills or full gear sparring.

We aren't talking about NVQs in 'teaching', these are coaching courses usually run over a weekend or two which enhance instructors knowledge and demonstrate how to use best practice. As I said these aren't academic courses, most sports instructors and coaches go on them. This is what one martial arts couching course offers... "role of martial arts coaches. Nutrition and hydration, physical and mental demands of sport or physical activity, safe coaching and duty of care, communication with participants and inclusive practise, planning an delivering martial arts sessions with feedback on how to develop your coaching practice." this isn't saying that the martial arts you teach is rubbish at all it's improving and enhancing your abilities to coach.
Judo is very keen on coaching and the British Judo Association does courses starting with basic right up to top level so you can coach a national team. How to get started in coaching - British Judo

EKF Coaching
Courses | Product categories | BCCMA

I dont wish to be rude, but you let an advisory body, that has no experience in your art, dictate your teaching credentials?
Because health and safety recommend it, the same people who are trying to ban contact sports, because of the contact element, dont get me wrong, I am all for the best practice for sports injury, and recovery, but I use a term you used recently, snowflakes

 

[Gweilo]

Ooh ecky thumped, so when do we decide, what is quality, and what is formality