Are titles that important?

[Pacificshore]

Nope, because standing behind it is another human being.

 

[47MartialMan]

Even with the politics of one particular style, there are those whom still will acknowledge another for abilities or instruction.

 

[BruceCalkins]

I think Adept and MartialMan have great points here. One saying to get rid of the ranks except for Basics. And the difficulty between styles. But we need to remember the reason some schools use the ranks. My school not only uses them to show progress but the help teach Mini Goal Setting Skills.
What dives me crazy is these Schools that Charge Belt test Fees and then add. 3-5 stripes per rank. That just looks like a way to get more money out of our students. My students don't pay belt test fees. Thay have already paid me for my time. I find it an honor to test them when they are ready. and the only cost is I have them pay for the cost of their Belt from our supplier.

 

[Paul B]

Rank is ...well...rank. I tend to look at it as "What can you do?" rather than "What rank are you?"

It's a very school subjective matter,and it really doesn't say anything to me unless it's on the mat.

I do have respect for the time and effort put in to learning the system,however. But...I'm not going to be all star-struck because someone says they're a great grand poo-bah of the Nth degree...I say.."Show me."

Nowadays with so many self aggrandized Soke and such it really comes down to what you can teach and show.

 

[BruceCalkins]

Goes back to my favorite T-Shirt...

"Don't Respect the Belt... Respect the One That Earned It"...

Aslo Done

"Don't Fear The Belt.. Fear The One That Earned It...."

Personally I like the first one Better.. :samurai:

 

[MJS]

The way I look at it is - You are only ever as good as you are. Strapping a coloured piece of cloth around your waist wont make you any better at learning, fighting/sparring, training or instructing.

Right on!!! IMO, I think its much more important to focus on your training, making yourself the best you can be, rather than focus on the title of this person or the rank of that person.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

What dives me crazy is these Schools that Charge Belt test Fees and then add. 3-5 stripes per rank. That just looks like a way to get more money out of our students. My students don't pay belt test fees. Thay have already paid me for my time. I find it an honor to test them when they are ready. and the only cost is I have them pay for the cost of their Belt from our supplier.

This is exactly my approach. I dont have belt-testing fees either. My train of thought is how can I charge for abilities learned?

 

[Aegis]

"Don't Respect the Belt... Respect the One That Earned It"...

"Don't Fear The Belt.. Fear The One That Earned It...."

I've not seen those on t-shirts before... Are they common in america?


In any case, I would prefer a slogan like "Respect skill, not rank" Which Gracie said "A belt only covers 2 inches of your ***, the rest is up to you", or something along those lines at least!

 

[47MartialMan]

AegisI do like the link to "the Guide Chosing A Martial Art Instructor.

 

[Aegis]

47: that's a real blast from the past, I made that site back when MT still had its chatroom! Myself, Master of Blades and another member I can't even remember fromt he abbreviation stuck it together as a joke, and I've kept a link to it in the profiles of so many sites that I never really think about it any more....

Cheers though!

 

[47MartialMan]

47: that's a real blast from the past, I made that site back when MT still had its chatroom! Myself, Master of Blades and another member I can't even remember fromt he abbreviation stuck it together as a joke, and I've kept a link to it in the profiles of so many sites that I never really think about it any more....

Cheers though!

Is there a "home" page?

 

[AikidoCal]

I am sorry I am catching up late on this topic. I often wonder the importance of titles, and rank. What is concrete for me lately is we know both can be great marketing tools. Both can impress people around the water-cooler to being great icebreakers at parties, and gatherings. Let's not forget rank and titles can be used to intimidate others. What is the real importance? Titles and ranks and their importance have been distorted because they can be easily use incorrectly and for other purposes then intended.

I think martial art rank originally is based in a military structure, and titles are simply administrative within an organization. We all know things can shift away from their original purpose. This is all compounded by the fact that the ranks and titles come for many archaic origins foreign in nature, language, and culture and that doesn't translated well and provides an opportunity for abuse and fraudulent use. This sadly deteriorates the genuineness of rank and titles. On the upside, skill still speaks louder then words.

 

[47MartialMan]

I am sorry I am catching up late on this topic. I often wondered the importance of titles. We know it is a great marketing tool. It impresses people around the water cooler to great icebreakers at parties. Let's not for get titles can intimidate others.

I just think that titles and ranks in importance have been distorted. I think rank is used in a military sense, and titles are simply administrative within an organization. Some self-appointed titles are acceptable and others are not. This is all compounded by the fact that the ranks and titles come for many archaic origins that don't apply today. And that they are for many foreign in nature, language, and culture and that doesn't translated well and provides an opportunity for abuse and fraudulent use. This sadly deteriorates the genuineness of rank and titles. On the upside, skill still speaks louder then words.

Bt in the course/subject of martial art titles, they're not so archaic.

 

[AikidoCal]

Opps....Sorry, I am still new to the button locations here when composing a post, and I hit send instead of preview. Result, I posted by accident a post I was editing. :xtrmshock

 

[Aegis]

Is there a "home" page?

I'm afraid not. I thought about making a home page about martial arts at some point, with a repository of information about my own art, and anyone else's who wanted to send me information, but then I found that it's been done before by a lot of people, so the humour page is the only martial arts related page that I have.

It just seemed pointless when there are some great resources out there already, most of them found through various online fora


Back to titles again...

I find it quite interesting to think that I've actually trained with (at a seminar, not regularly!) a 6th or 7th dan Judoka who won a gold medal at the Olympics... No grandmaster title, no 10th dan, she didn't even wear the red and white striped belt she was entitled to, just a plain black belt. Great character.

 

[AikidoCal]

Sorry again...Opps... I've O.D.ed on Star Wars today...
:jedi1::jedi1::jedi1::barf:

Correction:

archaic should be replaced with ancient. Meaning rank wasn't something someone decided to whip up in the kitchen to fit a need. Military ranking isn't anything new, it is well established and a respected system.

Sorry about the confusion, by bad.

 

[Paul B]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.....Rank...Dan/Kyu was pretty much whipped up in the kitchen. The licensing system however, is an older and more exclusive (harder to obtain) bit of wallpaper than the run-of-the-mill Dan certificate. I think that's what you were referring to,yes?

 

[The Kai]

Goes back to my favorite T-Shirt...

"Don't Respect the Belt... Respect the One That Earned It"...

Aslo Done

"Don't Fear The Belt.. Fear The One That Earned It...."

Personally I like the first one Better.. :samurai:

I guess the operative term would be earned it

 

[DavidCC]

The dangers of attaching too much importance to titles is clearly demonstrated in Annaken's feelings of betrayal by the Jedi council when they refused to award him the rank of Master. They seated him on the council, which is in itself an acknowledgment of his ability and talent (especially at such a young age) and if Obi-Wan had been any kind of decent mentor, Annaken would have realized that this was in fact the most important way that the Jedi could acknowledge him. But, his ego was hung up on the title, and so what should have been a very proud event in his life becaem instead another slip down the slope to the dark side.

 

[The Kai]

Maybe he could have called himself Soke Walker and saved use a lot of trouble!!