Are ITF and WTF the only notable styles?

[ETinCYQX]

Actually, General Choi was greatly responsible for TKD in the Korean military before he moved to Canada.

At this time, though, since the South Korean government runs the Kukkiwon, it's safe to say that their schools are KKW affiliated.

Yes, with the Oh Do Kwan, before the Kukkiwon existed and predating Choi's North Korean connection

 

[miguksaram]

I believe the story behind tukong musul is that some captured North Korean soldiers and tested their hand to hand combat ability. Hapkido, Judo, Taekwondo trained people went up against them, and the result of these experiments was the creation of tukong musul. I think.

It was my understanding that this was developed in the mid to late 70's within a specific SK military unit called Tukgong as a counter measure to the N.K. commando unit. The martial arts practiced was developed by 5 men and taught specifically to the Tukgong unit and not to the whole SK army.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Although I'm not sure I'd bet anything that the South Korean army trains in Kukkiwon Taekwondo, not ITF. Choi aligned himself with North Korea early on.

At the risk of causing massive thread drift and starting some people off on yet another Gen. Choi bashing, the bolded part of your statement is incorrect.

As for what kind of Taekwon-Do the ROK army trains in, it started out as Oh Do Kwan. Now? Well, since CISM first recognized the WTF and Gen. Choi exiled himself from South Korea in the early 70's if they have any sort of official program it would be WTF/KKW Taekwon-Do.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

As for what kind of Taekwon-Do the ROK army trains in, it started out as Oh Do Kwan. Now? Well, since CISM first recognized the WTF and Gen. Choi exiled himself from South Korea in the early 70's if they have any sort of official program it would be WTF/KKW Taekwon-Do.

If I remember correctly, wasn't Oh Do Kwan simply the military gym? I had thought that the bulk of the members, the General included, were CDK.

 

[chrispillertkd]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Oh Do Kwan simply the military gym? I had thought that the bulk of the members, the General included, were CDK.

Yes, the Oh Do Kwan was the military gym. Many of its members were Chung Do Kwan members because the CDK was the largest civilian gym and thus had the most recruits. Gen. Choi was a member of the CDK in the sense that he was the honorary Kwan Jang at one point. This meant that CDK members didn't have to re-test of they already were yudanja. Members of other Kwans did have to be re-evaluated. But anyone training in the army was part of the Oh Do Kwan.

Edit: It should be noted that there were some civilian Oh Do Kwan schools, too.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I believe the story behind tukong musul is that some captured North Korean soldiers and tested their hand to hand combat ability. Hapkido, Judo, Taekwondo trained people went up against them, and the result of these experiments was the creation of tukong musul. I think.

I completely missed this part of the discussion before posting. When I saw Miguksaram's post quoting you, I thought that maybe it was from another thread. Then I went back and sure enough, it was there on the first page of this one.

One of my former sabeom (still a good friend) had trained in this in the ROK special army.

 

[terryl965]

So the claim that it is taught to the South Korean army is legit?

I do not know if I would say legit, but they certainly by some accounts had alot to do with it. It is how one would look at a half glass of water- is it half full or half empty. That is how much of TKD is.

 

[mastercole]

Yes, the Oh Do Kwan was the military gym. Many of its members were Chung Do Kwan members because the CDK was the largest civilian gym and thus had the most recruits. Gen. Choi was a member of the CDK in the sense that he was the honorary Kwan Jang at one point. This meant that CDK members didn't have to re-test of they already were yudanja. Members of other Kwans did have to be re-evaluated. But anyone training in the army was part of the Oh Do Kwan.

Edit: It should be noted that there were some civilian Oh Do Kwan schools, too.

Pax,

Chris

Yes, at that time all military members were members of the Oh Do Kwan and for a time many had to re-test. However, not all of them practiced the Oh Do Kwan curriculum. My Jidokwan seniors told me that they never learned the Oh Do Kwan curriculum, they spent their Taekwondo time sparring, just as they did at their Jidokwan Dojang. I was told that only if you were stationed in Wonju the main Oh Do Kwan HQ base, or one of the other few locations that were considered Oh Do Kwan Jidoja centers would you have to practice the Oh Do Kwan curriculum.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, with the Oh Do Kwan, before the Kukkiwon existed and predating Choi's North Korean connection

You keep trying to make a connection between General Choi and North Korea that doesn't exist. The claims have been disproven several times, and continued efforts to bring that nonsense into the thread has resulted in at least one thread closure. Please stop it.

 

[mastercole]

I do think there is a difference in technique, what you learn, and what you are supporting by your involvement with a Taekwondo organization.

I trained in various Taekwondo groups, from Chang-hon/ITF to Kukkiwon. I found that I preferred Kukkiwon, for technical reasons at first, then other reasons later on. I saw some skilled people in other organizations that had impressive skill, but not to the level I encountered in Kukkiwon Taekwondo. That said, I have seen unskilled people in all Taekwondo organizations, including Kukkwion, but I never thought everyone had to be perfect, but I did expect to see some impressive black belts at least.

However, I have never seen a pure ATA black belt that impressed me with their fighting skills, not that some might not exist, over the past 4 decades, I just never saw one and there are a lot of ATA schools around me and across the country.

 

[mastercole]

You keep trying to make a connection between General Choi and North Korea that doesn't exist. The claims have been disproven several times, and continued efforts to bring that nonsense into the thread has resulted in at least one thread closure. Please stop it.

Wrong, CHOI Hong Hi's "connections" to North Korea have never been disproved, where did you get that at? CHOI Hong Hi's own son, former ITF senior members, North Korean news papers, North Korea and their United Front Department disagree with you. But that can be a thread of it's own if you want, not need to get into details in this thread.

 

[ETinCYQX]

You keep trying to make a connection between General Choi and North Korea that doesn't exist. The claims have been disproven several times, and continued efforts to bring that nonsense into the thread has resulted in at least one thread closure. Please stop it.

I think you're incorrect since I don't remember ever mentioning Choi's connection with NK.

You're also not right about his connection with NK but that's another topic.

 

[puunui]

I wouldn't particularly like to call any Taekwondo 'traditional', nothing to do with it's history, more to do with the fact that it is a martial art based on modern scientific principles. Theory of power generation comes from body mechanics in place of something like Ki/Qi/Chi. Also, it should evolve around what is proven to work, that's why the KKW change things, it's why you have some people in the ITF trying to change things, to fit in with modern knowledge of what works and what doesn't, how to train and fight for longevity, not training to a point where you reach 40 years old and your news are gone and you can't make a fist through arthritis. To me, the true essence of Taekwondo, regardless of organisation, is evolution.

The traditional part of taekwondo for me is the culture and values, showing respect to our teachers and seniors, taking care of our students and juniors, the building of relationships. But you are entirely correct that taekwondo is based on science and biomechanics, which should include methods which do not lead to injury. Everyone should be able to practice taekwondo, regardless of their age. If you are always suffering from injuries, then that is a sign that something is wrong.

 

[puunui]

Yes, the Oh Do Kwan was the military gym. Many of its members were Chung Do Kwan members because the CDK was the largest civilian gym and thus had the most recruits.

The Moo Duk Kwan was the largest civilian kwan, not the Chung Do Kwan.

 

[puunui]

You keep trying to make a connection between General Choi and North Korea that doesn't exist. The claims have been disproven several times, and continued efforts to bring that nonsense into the thread has resulted in at least one thread closure. Please stop it.

The connection between General Choi and North Korea is established fact. General Choi is buried in North Korea.

 

[puunui]

I don't know if it is taught to the south korean army. Perhaps in some specialized units today, maybe. I think the only art that is taught to south korean soldiers is taekwondo. I think I have a book on it at home, let me go see what it says. Hopefully it is in english.

I looked at the tukong mu sul book that I have. It is in english and korean, but for some strange reason, the history section is only in hangul. Irrespective of that, there are a lot of photos in the book with huge group photos with people who look to be wearing military uniforms. The techniques demonstrated to me look like kuk sool won, which isn't a bad art.

 

[dancingalone]

I looked at the tukong mu sul book that I have. It is in english and korean, but for some strange reason, the history section is only in hangul. Irrespective of that, there are a lot of photos in the book with huge group photos with people who look to be wearing military uniforms. The techniques demonstrated to me look like kuk sool won, which isn't a bad art.

Thank you for looking.

The local group have a variety of soft forms they claim descends from the Shaolin temple. They are practiced with an emphasis on fluidity like KSW forms likewise are.

 

[jks9199]

Folks,
I don't quite see what the connections between General Choi and North Korea have to do with the various taekwondo organizations. If you want to talk about that, you may wish to take it to a new thread. Keep this one to sorting out the general differences of the organizations, OK?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Not interested in going through your nonsense about the ITF being a terrorist org again. Enjoy yourselves.

 

[mastercole]

Not interested in going through your nonsense about the ITF being a terrorist org again. Enjoy yourselves.

Then why did you bring it up? I told you to go make another thread if you want to start that discussion.