Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[dvcochran]

You initially viewing them as sad, and now regretting calling them “sad” certainly appears to be you changing your mind. Yes, narrow minded fanboys are a sad bunch, but dishonest people are an even sadder bunch.

How am I being dishonest? You pointed out something I said. I apologized for it. So in your world that is being dishonest? That is some strange viewpoint. C'mon man.
Make sure your next picture is of you walking on water.

 

[Mitlov]

I wasn't talking about the picture particularly, but yeah you can tell the top pic is a group of people who don't pressure test.

I'm not sure if they're TKD or TSD, but either way, sport competition is pretty darned common in the Korean arts, including WT TKD being in the NCAA and Olympics. Holding up a photograph of TKD and TSD as an example of people who don't engage in competitive sports is an odd choice.

You seem to be equating "sport" with "fighting to KO or submission and nothing else." That's not what sport means. TKD is sport. Point karate is sport. Fencing is sport. You don't have to look like a UFC heavyweight to be an athlete on a sport.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not sure if they're TKD or TSD, but either way, sport competition is pretty darned common in the Korean arts, including WT TKD being in the NCAA and Olympics. Holding up a photograph of TKD and TSD as an example of people who don't engage in competitive sports is an odd choice.

You seem to be equating "sport" with "fighting to KO or submission and nothing else." That's not what sport means. TKD is sport. Point karate is sport. Fencing is sport. You don't have to look like a UFC heavyweight to be an athlete on a sport.

Well keep in mind, I didn’t say they weren’t competitive, I said that they look like a group who aren’t pressure testing their art. There’s a big difference.

Beyond that, they could be a TKD or TSD group who doesn’t compete as well. Those also exist. They tend to be participants in videos such as these;

Notice the similar uniforms....

 

[Mitlov]

Well keep in mind, I didn’t say they weren’t competitive, I said that they look like a group who aren’t pressure testing their art. There’s a big difference.

Pressure testing your abilities in your sport, and pressure testing your style versus other styles in multi-style competition, are two entirely different issues. And this thread, I thought, was about sport styles where athletes pressure test their abilities in sport, versus noon-sport styles where they don't.

Beyond that, they could be a TKD or TSD group who doesn’t compete as well. Those also exist. They tend to be participants in videos such as these;

Notice the similar uniforms....

If you don't know what the style the people in the photo do, and whether they compete in sport, and whether they compete in multi-sport open tournaments, what's the point in posting their picture at all? Shaming teenage girls and 50-somethings for not looking like a group of 22-year-old male heavyweights?

 

[Hanzou]

Pressure testing your abilities in your sport, and pressure testing your style versus other styles in multi-style competition, are two entirely different issues. And this thread, I thought, was about sport styles where athletes pressure test their abilities in sport, versus noon-sport styles where they don't.

Yes, and the person I was responding to with that picture was talking about non-sport styles being more applicable in more scenarios than styles that have a sport element. Also Bjj athletes tend to compete against other Bjj athletes.

If you don't know what style they do and whether they compete in sport, and whether they compete in multi-sport open tournaments, what's the point in posting their picture at all? Shaming teenage girls and 50-somethings for not looking like a group of 22-year-old male heavyweights?

Again, to be fair, the Bjj people in that pic are all middle aged, and they're not heavyweights. They just look like 22-year olds because they're competitors in a martial art that revolves around pressure testing. The guy in the front with the white gi was in his mid 30s when that pic was taken, and he's a welterweight, not a heavyweight.

Also there's a female in the Bjj picture.

 

[RTKDCMB]

No, but far too many are deluded like you.

There's nobody as deluded as you.

 

[RTKDCMB]

They tend to be participants in videos such as these;

There's something to be said for cherry picking. The content of that video bears little resemblance to how most competent traditional martial arts training looks like. Most TMA schools would agree that those practitioners were of poor quality.

 

[dvcochran]

Again, to be fair, the Bjj people in that pic are all middle aged, and they're not heavyweights. They just look like 22-year olds because they're competitors in a martial art that revolves around pressure testing. The guy in the front with the white gi was in his mid 30s when that pic was taken, and he's a welterweight, not a heavyweight.

So, someone in their 30's are middle aged? Yea, that answers a lot about your posts.
And you think All those guys do is train BJJ. Gotta call BS on that one.
Look, up until I was 38 I was that guy. I get it and I Love the driven feeling to be 'that guy'. It is a good thing. Is is Everything? No, of course not. But from your ranting that seems to be the case for you. So has BJJ done enough for you to put you in that picture? What other training are you doing?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Except....

Which group do you think will be better able to handle themselves if something were to go down?

To be fair, the top group looks like a typical group of hobbyist martial artists and the bottom group is a bunch of world class professional athletes who would easily dominate not only an average hobbyist BJJ black belt, but also most competitive BJJ black belts.

 

[Steve]

To be fair, the top group looks like a typical group of hobbyist martial artists and the bottom group is a bunch of world class professional athletes who would easily dominate not only an average hobbyist BJJ black belt, but also most competitive BJJ black belts.

Good point. Though if you go to google, do a search for BJJ schools (or MMA, or Muay Thai, or Boxing, etc), and look at the pictures of the students, they tend to look competent (and usually also sweaty). Even the kids. Don't take my word for it.

Note, that this is not a BJJ-centric post.

 

[Hanzou]

To be fair, the top group looks like a typical group of hobbyist martial artists and the bottom group is a bunch of world class professional athletes who would easily dominate not only an average hobbyist BJJ black belt, but also most competitive BJJ black belts.

Well that was the point. The person I was originally responding to was saying that hobbyists like those would be more prepared for a violent encounter than those BJJ athletes.

 

[Hanzou]

So, someone in their 30's are middle aged? Yea, that answers a lot about your posts.

Well life expectancy in the US is about 75-78, so yeah someone in their mid to late 30s would be (on average) halfway to the cemetery.

And you think All those guys do is train BJJ. Gotta call BS on that one.
Look, up until I was 38 I was that guy. I get it and I Love the driven feeling to be 'that guy'. It is a good thing. Is is Everything? No, of course not. But from your ranting that seems to be the case for you. So has BJJ done enough for you to put you in that picture? What other training are you doing?

Hey, I'm just saying that athletes like that have an advantage on hobbyist who train once or twice a week.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well that was the point. The person I was originally responding to was saying that hobbyists like those would be more prepared for a violent encounter than those BJJ athletes.

Yeah, but the meme image in question is clearly aiming to identify BJJ with the pro athletes and other arts (in this case KMA practitioners, judging from the uniforms) with the casual hobbyists. If the meme was just aiming to celebrate the prowess of pro athletes vs casuals in general then the top image could be BJJ hobbyists or the bottom picture could show Olympic TKD gold medalists.

 

[drop bear]

It is

To be fair, the top group looks like a typical group of hobbyist martial artists and the bottom group is a bunch of world class professional athletes who would easily dominate not only an average hobbyist BJJ black belt, but also most competitive BJJ black belts.

Yeah. So for example Kelly Sief here is traditionally a TKD guy. And has a stable of terrifying monsters.

 

[Mitlov]

Well life expectancy in the US is about 75-78, so yeah someone in their mid to late 30s would be (on average) halfway to the cemetery.

Hey, I'm just saying that athletes like that have an advantage on hobbyist who train once or twice a week.

But you were posting about style versus style, not intensity versus intensity.

If Rafael Aghayev (professional karate athlete) was compared to a 50-year-old office worker or 14-year-old kid who did BJJ two hours per week for fun and fitness, it'd be a night-and-day difference too.

 

[Steve]

Well life expectancy in the US is about 75-78, so yeah someone in their mid to late 30s would be (on average) halfway to the cemetery.

Hey, I'm just saying that athletes like that have an advantage on hobbyist who train once or twice a week.

Some folks are bringing a lot of emotional baggage to this discussion that doesn't need to be here.

But you were posting about style versus style, not intensity versus intensity.

If Rafael Aghayev (professional karate athlete) was compared to a 50-year-old office worker or 14-year-old kid who did BJJ two hours per week for fun and fitness, it'd be a night-and-day difference too.

Interestingly, in a thread about competitive sport martial artists, you provide an excellent case in point.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, but the meme image in question is clearly aiming to identify BJJ with the pro athletes and other arts (in this case KMA practitioners, judging from the uniforms) with the casual hobbyists. If the meme was just aiming to celebrate the prowess of pro athletes vs casuals in general then the top image could be BJJ hobbyists or the bottom picture could show Olympic TKD gold medalists.

Tony, a similar picture of competitors (at any level) in any bjj school, not just black belts, would illustrate the same contrast. Even in the same school, frankly, a picture of the competitors and non-competitive athletes, though to a lesser degree.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, but the meme image in question is clearly aiming to identify BJJ with the pro athletes and other arts (in this case KMA practitioners, judging from the uniforms) with the casual hobbyists. If the meme was just aiming to celebrate the prowess of pro athletes vs casuals in general then the top image could be BJJ hobbyists or the bottom picture could show Olympic TKD gold medalists.

It could be. However that meme was harder to find.

 

[drop bear]

But you were posting about style versus style, not intensity versus intensity.

If Rafael Aghayev (professional karate athlete) was compared to a 50-year-old office worker or 14-year-old kid who did BJJ two hours per week for fun and fitness, it'd be a night-and-day difference too.

Yeah but what would his core group photo look like?

Do fighters look like fighters?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Tony, a similar picture of competitors (at any level) in any bjj school, not just black belts, would illustrate the same contrast. Even in the same school, frankly, a picture of the competitors and non-competitive athletes, though to a lesser degree.

But then that should be what's used to illustrate the point. When you can easily find a picture of BJJ competitors and BJJ hobbyists (or TKD or kickboxing), there's no reason to complicate the point by adding in cross-style to the picture.