Anyone with me on this?

[Kacey]

There are too many websites, instructors, organizations, etc., that spend time telling their students "train here, we're the best", without thinking about the other side of that coin: by telling people they are the "best", they are, perforce, implying that all others are worse, and, by implication, flat out bad. This attitude is, IMHO, an outgrowth of the advertising theories that leads products to tout themselves as "new", "improved", "better than ever", etc. - even when they haven't changed, or the change has been insignificant - often leading to a decrease in quantity to make up for the supposed increase in quality.

Personally, I'm not convinced by claims of greatness; I'm convinced by my experience over time. I have been a regular poster on other MA sites, and MT is consistently the most polite, and the most likely to remain on topic - even on smaller sites, where the people all know each other, and moderation is generally simple, the threads often wander aimlessly from topic to topic, making it difficult to actually get information. The type of experience I get here is why I joined MT as a supporting member, and why I recommend the benefits of membership to you as well - let's keep supporting the best site of it's type - because I've seen the competition...

 

[matt.m]

You know, I have found MT to be more positive for folks than not. It seems that those who do train or are enthusiasts whatever the case may be are generally positive.

It has been my own experience that people are good natured and give good responsive hand, help, or take the venting just fine. I have enjoyed this webboard and have found others like me who are open to other styles and want to know more about what the other arts are doing and have shown interest in others and the comings and goings of what they are doing, going on etc. etc.

Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do are horrible when it comes to the whole banner, patch, flag discrimination. However, over the summer we had kids from karate schools that were staying with a parent from joint custody etc. we welcomed them, let them train and treated them no differently, we have a kuk sool won hapkido practitioner learning our system now. We have a sorted background with He-Young Kimm who trained with Jim West. Jim taught the doctor that trains with us once a week, he has always been nice and considerate. Our dans call him Mr. out of consideration, he follows along and has been a great and reputable student. He always follows technique after me, I outrank him in our system but we feed off each other. It is all about being good partners, period........No ego, if you have one then that is no good.

Just my .02

 

[Hand Sword]

Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do are horrible when it comes to the whole banner, patch, flag discrimination.

A few things:

1. So is the Kem/npo family. The worst comes from "siblings" from the same father too. Very sad!

2. I thank all of you greatly for the responses. My "belt" is off to all of the Moderators, for the tireless watch, and keeping MT positive. Also, My "belt" is off to Mr. BOB Hubbard for creating this site, and his work maintaining it.

3. I would also ask all of you to Actively spread this attitude in your dojos, at MA events etc.. as well.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

A few things:

1. So is the Kem/npo family. The worst comes from "siblings" from the same father too. Very sad!

2. I thank all of you greatly for the responses. My "belt" is off to all of the Moderators, for the tireless watch, and keeping MT positive. Also, My "belt" is off to Mr. BOB Hubbard for creating this site, and his work maintaining it.

3. I would also ask all of you to Actively spread this attitude in your dojos, at MA events etc.. as well.

Thanks.

My hat is off to you as well, along with the many other great members who've made MT what it is today.

 

[exile]

I have to say, I think the key to MT's uniqueness is the very friendly but very firm moderation. It creates an atmosphere in which people feel safe to voice their opinions or ask their questions. The great danger of electronic media is that bullies and people with serious anger and hostility problems can take advantage of the anonymity inherent in the technology to make themselves feel powerful by destructive flaming and trolling—but not here! Honest disagreement and debate are given free reign but no one of good will need ever feel intimidated, is my sense of things here. All honor to our administrators and moderators, who make sure it stays that way... :asian:

 

[Hand Sword]

I feel as though an explanation is due for this thread. So, I'll attempt to do so, even though it might not come out right. So, please bare with me, communicating is not my strong point-lol. As I have said, I love the Martial Arts, always have and always will. For quite a few years, due to one reason or another I did not flamingo a kick or chamber a punch. I was also very sour to the direction of the arts as a whole. I used to take it with a grain of salt however, and very recently, began to try to get back into shape. I also tried out a class, at the request of one of our members (Thank you greatly Carol!). I felt that spark again, even though I was very frustrated with myself, for allowing myself to deteriorate. Either way, the fire has been rekindled. I enjoyed myself again, after a loooong time, and there was an acceptance, as I have described in my opening post. Eventually, however, the ugliness of "patch warfare" showed up, evn though "slight" and "unhostile", just some innocent jabs, which I blew off, being used to it (which is very sad, that one would have that tollerance), but still had a little sting. I've reached a way beyond tired point of that crap, especially when it ruined a great personal, though frustrating, experience. Later on, I came into MT, and checked around. I saw some of the ugliness in a certain forum, where a newer member remarked about feeling bad, and unwelcome. In all honesty, that infuriated me! Throughout my physical practice of the arts banishment, Martial Talk has been my companion, first as a reader, then a member. I consider an almost necessary part of my daily life, and, I felt that I could not allow this ugliness to pollute my last bastion, without saying something to combat it.

 

[pstarr]

Count me in!

 

[DArnold]

I remember a time when I was not yet a practicing martial artist. I had this Jones for anything martial arts. Whether it was TV, a movie, Book, exhibition, etc.. I soaked anything and everything that I could up. I didn't care about what style or system, which school, organization or instructor, if it was martial arts, my attention was given. I remember the excitement I felt when I got near, or got anything martial arts, especially the first time I started training. I would listen, watch, or read from anyone, and give it honest thought, and I didn't discriminate one bit. I always studied, one way or another, and continue to do so. Throughout my journey, I have had bad associations, and experiences, as we probably all have had. Still, my entusiasm for the Martial Arts has never waivered. Even now, though I haven't physically practiced in a while, I find myself participating here at Martial Talk, as we all are, member or not. The whole idea of exchanging ideas, and just gaining more knowledge, from all of us, is truly great. At least this is my opinion. I aslo believe that many of you also, at one time, thought and felt the same exact way, which has led you here, and reading this thread. If so, and I think it is, I ask all of my fellow Martial Talkers, members or not, to get back to this, what I think of being, pure mindset. I ask you to make a real effort to get away from the fighting of Patches worn, schools trained at, teachers learned from. Whether you had bad experiences, financially, or personally. Still you persevered, and continue to feed Your martial art jones. I ask that we treat here as one big garage that we all train at. Where we all honestly exchange techniques and ideas, and truly enhance our learning. I ask that we see each other as fellow Martial Art enthusiasts, intead of our affiliations. We all have unique experiences, and thoughts, as well as shared ones, no matter our rank, or experience. Let's all contribute positively, please. I'm write this from my heart, ....seriously.

Anyone with me? Anyone to help clean up the Martial Art world, and make an effort here in MT?

(Thank you for the time to ramble.)

Dear Hand Sword,

Where is your head at?

I wonder?

At some point in the journey, we all wish we could be a white belt again and feel the initial joy. But alas, along with your knowledge comes the responsibility for you to pass this joy on to other new students. So your journey has changed.

The way has never changed.
Only you and where you are at!

Focus on you, your goals, learning, what makes you happy, why you started training.

Not others, politics, patches, rank, unlearned juniors who think fighting is a measure of their worth, or a piece of cloth defines who they are.

Find someone to go throw 100 kicks with, do 100 patters, and 100 rounds of sparring and you will feel better. That is why you started. That is where the feeling is in your heart.

You can not force anyone to change, you can only show them the path.
Like water, the more you tighten your grip, the more that will slip through your hands. You will only get depressed at trying to change the world. I think someone important said, "Do not cast your pearls before swine" So move on from those who do not want your help, knowledge, frendship and spend your time with those who think you worthy.

It sounds as though you have had some kind of negative experience lately.
As a martial artist we follow the ideals and not a person or an organization or a patch.

But everyone, at some time or another must struggle with there inner confidence, that clouds the way.

You have seen that most here are secure in themselves as they have, and are capable of controlling their mind as well as their body.

These people lead and teach by their words and examples.
This builds a more peaceful world.

 

[Hand Sword]

Dear Hand Sword,

Where is your head at?

I wonder?

At some point in the journey, we all wish we could be a white belt again and feel the initial joy. But alas, along with your knowledge comes the responsibility for you to pass this joy on to other new students. So your journey has changed.

The way has never changed.
Only you and where you are at!

Focus on you, your goals, learning, what makes you happy, why you started training.

Not others, politics, patches, rank, unlearned juniors who think fighting is a measure of their worth, or a piece of cloth defines who they are.

Find someone to go throw 100 kicks with, do 100 patters, and 100 rounds of sparring and you will feel better. That is why you started. That is where the feeling is in your heart.

You can not force anyone to change, you can only show them the path.
Like water, the more you tighten your grip, the more that will slip through your hands. You will only get depressed at trying to change the world. I think someone important said, "Do not cast your pearls before swine" So move on from those who do not want your help, knowledge, frendship and spend your time with those who think you worthy.

It sounds as though you have had some kind of negative experience lately.
As a martial artist we follow the ideals and not a person or an organization or a patch.

But everyone, at some time or another must struggle with there inner confidence, that clouds the way.

You have seen that most here are secure in themselves as they have, and are capable of controlling their mind as well as their body.

These people lead and teach by their words and examples.
This builds a more peaceful world.

I appreciate your response, however, I think you didn't get my post at all. My head has been in the MA world since a young child. You're right, we all feel that way at times, but, believe me, this is NOT one of them. I understand my journey has changed, and I was trying to pass on my knowledge learned to try to bring others back into the true fold, from which they've strayed. It's true the way is the way, but, people are clouded. As a Martial Artist, with some time in the fold, I feel it is my duty some times to speak up when I feel it is necessary. Judging from the Martial Art world in general, with all of the fighting, that is and has been going on, I feel that it's time for it to end. This can only come if we all get involved. The negativity is there, and has been, for ever it seems, and I, for one am tired of it. It can go on with others, and true you can't force them, but, you can try to get through to them. That is the true "way" of the arts, IMHO. Judging by your post of focussing on myself, I'm well past that stage. I would be just like everyone else lately, having what, in my opinion is a selfish attitude. That is the crux of the problem in the MA world. It is what lead to the separation of Patches, organizations, etc.. If you can't see that, even within these forums, then I'd respectfully ask, where your head is at.

Lofty ideals and thinking, which you have apparently, don't get done by focussing on yourself, and ignoring everything else. Trying to help out lately is what makes me happy, so I am going with my heart, which is what I said in my post, and again, I MEANT IT! Putting your head in the sand accomoplishes nothing.

 

[DArnold]

I appreciate your response, however, I think you didn't get my post at all. My head has been in the MA world since a young child. You're right, we all feel that way at times, but, believe me, this is NOT one of them. I understand my journey has changed, and I was trying to pass on my knowledge learned to try to bring others back into the true fold, from which they've strayed. It's true the way is the way, but, people are clouded. As a Martial Artist, with some time in the fold, I feel it is my duty some times to speak up when I feel it is necessary. Judging from the Martial Art world in general, with all of the fighting, that is and has been going on, I feel that it's time for it to end. This can only come if we all get involved. The negativity is there, and has been, for ever it seems, and I, for one am tired of it. It can go on with others, and true you can't force them, but, you can try to get through to them. That is the true "way" of the arts, IMHO. Judging by your post of focussing on myself, I'm well past that stage. I would be just like everyone else lately, having what, in my opinion is a selfish attitude. That is the crux of the problem in the MA world. It is what lead to the separation of Patches, organizations, etc.. If you can't see that, even within these forums, then I'd respectfully ask, where your head is at.

Lofty ideals and thinking, which you have apparently, don't get done by focussing on yourself, and ignoring everything else. Trying to help out lately is what makes me happy, so I am going with my heart, which is what I said in my post, and again, I MEANT IT! Putting your head in the sand accomoplishes nothing.

You are right that I did not understand your true intent. It sounded like the "Can't we just all get along" speach brought about by some pain.
But know I must ask: since you are passing on your knowledge on the MT forum, do you have some concerns with the people on here?

Judging from the Martial Art world in general, with all of the fighting, that is and has been going on, I feel that it's time for it to end.

I applaud your belief, even though somewhat like Don Quiote, this has always been part of the Way and will always be part of the Way. Time does not change or tarry backward. No disrespect but do you truely belive that the grass was greener in the past?

There is a fine line between Integrity and Humility, and in learning, many will cross the line in their journey. Either literally or in your perception. Not everyone is a good person, or believes the same and sometimes, Integrity demands dissent. This does not necessarly make the dissenting party bad. And yes, youth and exuberance will get out of hand. But those who do go through the journey do learn this later on and do not get sucked into trying to change every first dan that has a bur in their saddle as time will fix this problem.

Many go through this stage and unless you have a way to remove this stage from the learning cycle, I fail to see how you will end it. It simply is a part of the path of the Martial Artist (Not all). There is no good without bad. Plurality is what keeps us progressing. It is what makes Martial Artists both better and worse than those of the past.

And yes, I am selfish. I do martial arts for myself. Not for you, my wife, or anyone else. I learn for myself, I practice for myself, I try to improve myself so that I set a better example for other.

When your young, teach by your physical ability.
When your old, teach by your words.
When your dead, teach by your examples.

After being on this forum for a while I don't see the problems you are stateing.
As for those that know me, I have never put my head in the sand. LOL
And as for lofty ideas, yes, it is those, like yours that change the world.
I applaud your beliefs and effort.
Never give up!
Sincerely,
Douglas Arnold

 

[Hand Sword]

I'm not going to get in to this here, in this thread, with you. I suggest you re read my posts again, think about each statement, and keep training.
Good luck on your journey.

 

[DArnold]

I'm not going to get in to this here, in this thread, with you. I suggest you re read my posts again, think about each statement, and keep training.
Good luck on your journey.

I appoligise if you have taken any offense to this discourse
I do agree with your sentiments.
Sincerely,

 

[Catalyst]

I agree with the sentiments of the original post. I also think that MartialTalk helps to promote understanding and even if people don't agree, they do it with respect and courtesy. That is why I chose to join and become a member. I am mailing a check to become a supporting member because I like the resources and discussion on this site so much.

Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do are horrible when it comes to the whole banner, patch, flag discrimination.

I preface my comments by stating that I'm just a beginner, but I've visited other sites where politics and egos seem to have gotten in the way of what I feel is the true intent of the martial arts (from my beginner's perspective).

To use an analogy, to me, Hapkido is like pizza.
1.) I don't know who definitively invented pizza, and I don't really care. I do know that I love pizza and would rather spend my time partaking of pizza than arguing who invented it.
2.) There are different types of pizza: New York Thin Crust, Chicago Deep Dish, etc. No one type of pizza is intrinsically better than any other type of pizza. No one type of pizza is "purer" than any other type of pizza. I prefer New York Style pizza, I eat NY Style pizza but that doesn't make Chicago Style Pizza any less worthy of being pizza.

I just don't think you elevate anything you love or like by disparaging something else.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Hand Sword,
I to am a student of the martial arts. I have learned a little about Arnis, Iaido, along with my Karate, Ju Jitsu and Kobudo background. But I have had the opportunity to take part in seminars by instructors from all over the world in all different styles such as:
Shaolin Gung Fu
Sin Moo Hapkido
Hapkido
TKD
KiJutsu
Kobudo / Kobujutsu
Ninjitsu
Various styles of Ju Jitsu
Seminars on stretching and kicking
American Kenpo
and more.

It has been a great ride and I look forward to even more in the future. I to encourage this type of practice. If you are a student of the martial arts than this is the path to follow. If you are a student of a specific system only than thats what you are. I would rather be a open minded student.

 

[Hand Sword]

I agree with the sentiments of the original post. I also think that MartialTalk helps to promote understanding and even if people don't agree, they do it with respect and courtesy. That is why I chose to join and become a member. I am mailing a check to become a supporting member because I like the resources and discussion on this site so much.


I preface my comments by stating that I'm just a beginner, but I've visited other sites where politics and egos seem to have gotten in the way of what I feel is the true intent of the martial arts (from my beginner's perspective).

To use an analogy, to me, Hapkido is like pizza.
1.) I don't know who definitively invented pizza, and I don't really care. I do know that I love pizza and would rather spend my time partaking of pizza than arguing who invented it.
2.) There are different types of pizza: New York Thin Crust, Chicago Deep Dish, etc. No one type of pizza is intrinsically better than any other type of pizza. No one type of pizza is "purer" than any other type of pizza. I prefer New York Style pizza, I eat NY Style pizza but that doesn't make Chicago Style Pizza any less worthy of being pizza.

I just don't think you elevate anything you love or like by disparaging something else.

Catalyst, Thank you for joining in, and congrats on your soon to be membership. I believe that it was a two for one, if so, give a nice gift to someone. Also, your pizza analogoy is correct, with regards to the martial arts, and my opininion of them. So to that, I say, "Keep eating!"

 

[Hand Sword]

Hand Sword,
I to am a student of the martial arts. I have learned a little about Arnis, Iaido, along with my Karate, Ju Jitsu and Kobudo background. But I have had the opportunity to take part in seminars by instructors from all over the world in all different styles such as:
Shaolin Gung Fu
Sin Moo Hapkido
Hapkido
TKD
KiJutsu
Kobudo / Kobujutsu
Ninjitsu
Various styles of Ju Jitsu
Seminars on stretching and kicking
American Kenpo
and more.

It has been a great ride and I look forward to even more in the future. I to encourage this type of practice. If you are a student of the martial arts than this is the path to follow. If you are a student of a specific system only than thats what you are. I would rather be a open minded student.

Outstanding Brandon! I would request that you always keep that attitude, and it will be difficult. However, persevere, and pass on that view, anytime you can. No matter your rank, or experience, you are a teacher!

 

[DArnold]

Hand Sword,
I to am a student of the martial arts. I have learned a little about Arnis, Iaido, along with my Karate, Ju Jitsu and Kobudo background. But I have had the opportunity to take part in seminars by instructors from all over the world in all different styles such as:
Shaolin Gung Fu
Sin Moo Hapkido
Hapkido
TKD
KiJutsu
Kobudo / Kobujutsu
Ninjitsu
Various styles of Ju Jitsu
Seminars on stretching and kicking
American Kenpo
and more.

It has been a great ride and I look forward to even more in the future. I to encourage this type of practice. If you are a student of the martial arts than this is the path to follow. If you are a student of a specific system only than thats what you are. I would rather be a open minded student.

Brandon,
Your not really implying that if you choose to master one style instead of dabbling around then your not open minded, are you ?

 

[kaizasosei]

nicely said!

100% with you!!

:ultracool

j

 

[Mariachi Joe]

I still feel the enthusiasm for the arts that I had when I was young. That's why I'm here, to ask, read, and learn as much as I can about the arts

 

[Iron Leopard]

The more I learn the more I start looking into different aspects!