On Physical Challenges

[PhotonGuy]

Sport fighting for fun friendly competition is one thing but picking a fight with somebody because of something they said is something else. As Jason Frank who is best known for playing Tommy in Power Rangers but in real life is a well accomplished martial artist put it, he trains in martial arts to develop his mind and feel good about himself not so he can win in fights, and that if you train in martial arts to beat up other people then you'll never be a true martial artist. If martial arts was all about beating people up than why is there a rule here against making challenges? As for Steven Seagal being challenged by the Dirty Dozen, he might've brought it upon himself, he had been saying negative things about Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee and he was saying stuff about Bruce Lee behind his back since Bruce Lee was dead, but there were people saying that the Dirty Dozen were going about it the wrong way.

Part of what I am saying is that while you shouldn't pick a fight over something that somebody says, you also shouldn't say stuff that would want to cause somebody to pick a fight with you. According to some people the Dirty Dozen went about it the wrong way but Steven Seagal should've definitely not said the stuff he said. As martial artists we're supposed to be kind, courteous, and nice. That being said we shouldn't say anything here that would offend anybody. Signing up for a sport fighting event and testing yourself against other fighters is one thing but saying stuff to pick fights and picking fights with people because you want to prove how tough you are is something we shouldn't do.

 

[Transk53]

There have been stuff that I have read that Steven Seagal is a control freak and quite nasty. Whether that is true or not I do not know.

 

[ballen0351]

Sport fighting for fun friendly competition is one thing but picking a fight with somebody because of something they said is something else. As Jason Frank who is best known for playing Tommy in Power Rangers but in real life is a well accomplished martial artist put it, he trains in martial arts to develop his mind and feel good about himself not so he can win in fights, and that if you train in martial arts to beat up other people then you'll never be a true martial artist. If martial arts was all about beating people up than why is there a rule here against making challenges? As for Steven Seagal being challenged by the Dirty Dozen, he might've brought it upon himself, he had been saying negative things about Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee and he was saying stuff about Bruce Lee behind his back since Bruce Lee was dead, but there were people saying that the Dirty Dozen were going about it the wrong way.

Part of what I am saying is that while you shouldn't pick a fight over something that somebody says, you also shouldn't say stuff that would want to cause somebody to pick a fight with you. According to some people the Dirty Dozen went about it the wrong way but Steven Seagal should've definitely not said the stuff he said. As martial artists we're supposed to be kind, courteous, and nice. That being said we shouldn't say anything here that would offend anybody. Signing up for a sport fighting event and testing yourself against other fighters is one thing but saying stuff to pick fights and picking fights with people because you want to prove how tough you are is something we shouldn't do.

You do understand training in Martial Arts isnt magic. If your a mean jerk before you train Martial Arts your prob. going to be a mean jerk after you train martial arts.

 

[elder999]

There have been stuff that I have read that Steven Seagal is a control freak and quite nasty. Whether that is true or not I do not know.

A couple of things: Steven Seagal may be a bit of an ***, but I know people who have worked with him recently that say that he's pretty nice, so who knows?

Some people say I'm nice.....:lfao:

He is (was?), by all accounts, a pretty exceptional aikidoka, and a good teacher who is hard-but not abusive-on his students-he used to have a dojo in Taos,NM, and I know a few of those students.

When I was in Osaka, Seagal was running his dojo there, and was challenged himself pretty regularly. The dojo was at the top of a long flight of stairs, and he supposedly dragged several people down those stairs (after beating the crap out of them) by their feet, and tossing them out in the street.

On the other hand, some of the things alleged about him over the years, are beyond the pale, and not worth mentioning here...if only one of them is true (as in:pick one ) then he's scum.

The whole "Dirty Dozen" thing was hype responding to more hype: Seagal said some stuff in some interviews that pissed a few people off-some of it might have just been supreme confidence coming across as arrogance, some of it might have been arrogance, and some of it was just more stuff-none of those people (except maybe Jim Harrison) was really out to fight Seagal on his own terms-no fights took place, and Seagal never responded. In the end, though, all he said was that he didn't think much of Chuck Norris movies or Bruce Lee-that, and the whole "fight to the death" quote-and it was just something Bob Wall drummed up to get on the cover of Black Belt....again.:lfao:

 

[Buka]

I travel quite a bit.

Can't really walk into a strange BJJ academy without them thinking it's some sort of challenge.

Can't really walk into a new MMA academy without at least one friendly invitation....

I'm from the same part of the world as Seasoned and TShadwochaser, and only a little younger-I can remember all out "dojo wars" in New York in the 70's, as well as fairly regular "challenges." I did some "dojo storming" myself in my late teens and early 20's-it's part of what helped me choose Kyokushin over tae kwon do: I saw the sorry state of what was called tae kwon do just visiting a tae kwon do school in Port Jefferson on Long Island when I returned to college, and wound up pretty much whooping the owner and two of his senior students....I did not know I could do that, and had just dropped in to check it out, but somehow we got our wires crossed, and they viewed it as a "challenge."

Got challenged myself, once, running a school in Peekskill, NY for a senior to me for that week. Said, "Let me call my sensei.." knocked the dude out with the telephone, tied him up with the cord, had the owner of the police supply store next door get the cops to come take him away.....

....challenge made and answered! :lfao:

Of course, these days, it's a "challenge" just to take more than 15 falls per class for students....:lfao:

Good times back then. I miss the "gunslingers" as we used to call them. Those were the guys who dojo-hopped looking for fighters they thought they could take advantage of. Sometimes it was actually exciting, sometimes humorous, but it was always a whole lot of fun.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sport fighting for fun friendly competition is one thing but picking a fight with somebody because of something they said is something else. As Jason Frank who is best known for playing Tommy in Power Rangers but in real life is a well accomplished martial artist put it, he trains in martial arts to develop his mind and feel good about himself not so he can win in fights, and that if you train in martial arts to beat up other people then you'll never be a true martial artist. If martial arts was all about beating people up than why is there a rule here against making challenges? As for Steven Seagal being challenged by the Dirty Dozen, he might've brought it upon himself, he had been saying negative things about Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee and he was saying stuff about Bruce Lee behind his back since Bruce Lee was dead, but there were people saying that the Dirty Dozen were going about it the wrong way.

Part of what I am saying is that while you shouldn't pick a fight over something that somebody says, you also shouldn't say stuff that would want to cause somebody to pick a fight with you. According to some people the Dirty Dozen went about it the wrong way but Steven Seagal should've definitely not said the stuff he said. As martial artists we're supposed to be kind, courteous, and nice. That being said we shouldn't say anything here that would offend anybody. Signing up for a sport fighting event and testing yourself against other fighters is one thing but saying stuff to pick fights and picking fights with people because you want to prove how tough you are is something we shouldn't do.

You're going off on one of your apples and oranges things again...

MartialTalk is an online discussion forum. It is not a martial art. Trying to form a parallel between the rules here and the rules of a dojo makes no more sense than saying you shouldn't challenge someone in a dojo because, after all, fighting is against the rules at the elementary school down the street. They're both schools, after all.

 

[Zero]

You're going off on one of your apples and oranges things again...

MartialTalk is an online discussion forum. It is not a martial art. Trying to form a parallel between the rules here and the rules of a dojo makes no more sense than saying you shouldn't challenge someone in a dojo because, after all, fighting is against the rules at the elementary school down the street. They're both schools, after all.

What?! Surely you jest! You mean I don't get any bragging rights for the MartialTalk black belt I hold?

 

[Dirty Dog]

What?! Surely you jest! You mean I don't get any bragging rights for the MartialTalk black belt I hold?

Actually, I would say that a MT Black Belt is of more value than some of those awarded by certain schools of a highly commercial nature...

 

[Zero]

Sport fighting for fun friendly competition is one thing but picking a fight with somebody because of something they said is something else. As Jason Frank who is best known for playing Tommy in Power Rangers but in real life is a well accomplished martial artist put it, he trains in martial arts to develop his mind and feel good about himself not so he can win in fights, and that if you train in martial arts to beat up other people then you'll never be a true martial artist. If martial arts was all about beating people up than why is there a rule here against making challenges? As for Steven Seagal being challenged by the Dirty Dozen, he might've brought it upon himself, he had been saying negative things about Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee and he was saying stuff about Bruce Lee behind his back since Bruce Lee was dead, but there were people saying that the Dirty Dozen were going about it the wrong way.

Part of what I am saying is that while you shouldn't pick a fight over something that somebody says, you also shouldn't say stuff that would want to cause somebody to pick a fight with you. According to some people the Dirty Dozen went about it the wrong way but Steven Seagal should've definitely not said the stuff he said. As martial artists we're supposed to be kind, courteous, and nice. That being said we shouldn't say anything here that would offend anybody. Signing up for a sport fighting event and testing yourself against other fighters is one thing but saying stuff to pick fights and picking fights with people because you want to prove how tough you are is something we shouldn't do.

Dirty Dog and others have already responded, but I am still not sure where you are getting this view from? By saying "sport fighting" do you mean the competitive forms such as boxing, MMA and the like, or something else? In which case often at the top end (and also bottom end in the sawdust floor venues) competitive fighting is anything but fun or friendly competition. Sure outside of the ring a lot of competitors like and/or respect each other but there is also a lot of dislike as well. There is also a lot of pain and not much "fun" when you get KO'd or a busted elbow from an armbar. Also, I don't know Jason Frank at all but while he has not had a lot of pro fights, he seems to have a pretty decent record where he has fought so I would say he trains pretty hard and he trains to win fights. No one goes into competition or the pro circuit to lose a fight, the whole focus is winning and getting the purse.

 

[Touch Of Death]

You do understand training in Martial Arts isnt magic. If your a mean jerk before you train Martial Arts your prob. going to be a mean jerk after you train martial arts.

Do you seriously believe martial arts doesn't help people overcome a victim mentality?

 

[ballen0351]

Do you seriously believe martial arts doesn't help people overcome a victim mentality?

Nope its not some super drug that cures all that ails us

 

[Transk53]

A couple of things: Steven Seagal may be a bit of an ***, but I know people who have worked with him recently that say that he's pretty nice, so who knows?

Some people say I'm nice.....:lfao:

He is (was?), by all accounts, a pretty exceptional aikidoka, and a good teacher who is hard-but not abusive-on his students-he used to have a dojo in Taos,NM, and I know a few of those students.

When I was in Osaka, Seagal was running his dojo there, and was challenged himself pretty regularly. The dojo was at the top of a long flight of stairs, and he supposedly dragged several people down those stairs (after beating the crap out of them) by their feet, and tossing them out in the street.

On the other hand, some of the things alleged about him over the years, are beyond the pale, and not worth mentioning here...if only one of them is true (as in:pick one ) then he's scum.

The whole "Dirty Dozen" thing was hype responding to more hype: Seagal said some stuff in some interviews that pissed a few people off-some of it might have just been supreme confidence coming across as arrogance, some of it might have been arrogance, and some of it was just more stuff-none of those people (except maybe Jim Harrison) was really out to fight Seagal on his own terms-no fights took place, and Seagal never responded. In the end, though, all he said was that he didn't think much of Chuck Norris movies or Bruce Lee-that, and the whole "fight to the death" quote-and it was just something Bob Wall drummed up to get on the cover of Black Belt....again.:lfao:

Ah, right the ever present Enter The Dragon stuff that surrounds Bob Wall. Well if he (Seagal) asserted that some of those movies were no good, would no different than any us that are film fans. That is hardly bad really.

 

[Transk53]

Do you seriously believe martial arts doesn't help people overcome a victim mentality?

I would say no simply because a victim will still have mental incapacity, in what ever form that manifests. Someone severely bullied may well take up a Martial Art, and will be better enabled to defend themselves, but that would be it. Until that person lets go upstairs, exterior stimuli helps, but the mindset needs to be reversed IMHO.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nope its not some super drug that cures all that ails us

It does teach discipline; there is nothing worse than an undisciplined thug.

 

[ballen0351]

It does teach discipline; there is nothing worse than an undisciplined thug.

It can teach discipline while your actually in the dojo. That doesnt mean it always translates once you leave the dojo doors. Besides if were talking about adults there is not much in the way of discipline or morals or standards you can teach an adult.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I would say no simply because a victim will still have mental incapacity, in what ever form that manifests. Someone severely bullied may well take up a Martial Art, and will be better enabled to defend themselves, but that would be it. Until that person lets go upstairs, exterior stimuli helps, but the mindset needs to be reversed IMHO.

I will just come out and say, my teacher is big into making or at least helping people take on that perception. This is a case of me not knowing what the **** you guys are talking about, but I accept that there are other teachers of martial arts teaching what have you; so, I will let it go.

 

[ballen0351]

I will just come out and say, my teacher is big into making or at least helping people take on that perception. This is a case of me not knowing what the **** you guys are talking about, but I accept that there are other teachers of martial arts teaching what have you; so, I will let it go.

The very person that started this thread spent 40 pages about how they were a victim for not getting a blackbelt 20 years ago and said it neg. impacted their entire life. Thats victim mentality if I ever saw it

 

[Touch Of Death]

The very person that started this thread spent 40 pages about how they were a victim for not getting a blackbelt 20 years ago and said it neg. impacted their entire life. Thats victim mentality if I ever saw it

Actually it is a perceptual fitness issue. I have yet to be discovered as the awesome singer that I am, but I have accepted that while I can take any song lyric and make sound dirty, I am no song writer, and I probably would not want to tour; so, here I am... unjustly un-discovered. , but I digress. Anyways, I know why it took me so long (20 years), and he is still struggling.

 

[Transk53]

Actually it is a perceptual fitness issue. I have yet to be discovered as the awesome singer that I am, but I have accepted that while I can take any song lyric and make sound dirty, I am no song writer, and I probably would not want to tour; so, here I am... unjustly un-discovered. , but I digress. Anyways, I know why it took me so long (20 years), and he is still struggling.

Who do you mean by "he"?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Who do you mean by "he"?

Whoever Ballen was talking about. I don't know. I am just saying that person was not ready in his teacher's eyes. He can either go where it is easier to get rank, or deal with it. Anger is one way, I suppose, but it is dealing with it. Ha Ha.