Another Self defence system

jobo said:
yes i think that its a concept that's in a number of sports at an amateur level but not at a professional level. you expect you golf coach to be better at golf than you are,
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I'd expect him to be technically better, but in my 20's and 30's I wouldn't have expected him to out-drive me. And even a really good amateur can probably out-score his golf coaches.
 
gpseymour said:
I'd expect him to be technically better, but in my 20's and 30's I wouldn't have expected him to out-drive me. And even a really good amateur can probably out-score his golf coaches.
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ok or really good amateur, but the point remains its a hard sell being a coach at anything unless you are or at least were very good at the sports iits self
 
jobo said:
the fact they can only find five suggests it quite rare, and one of them was the father and they didnt have much choice.
imagine how good the,Williams sisters might have been had they had a decent coach
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I literally spent 30 seconds looking on google, so is that any surprise? Yes of course there are fewer of them but they are still around and very successful.
 
Midnight-shadow said:
I literally spent 30 seconds looking on google, so is that any surprise? Yes of course there are fewer of them but they are still around and very successful.
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Angelo Dundee isn't around or successful, Mr Williams was replaced as their coach as soon as they got some money and I've nether heard of two of them
 
Kung Fu Wang said:
The teacher can offer to spar/wrestle with his students. The students should not ask their teacher to spar/wrestle with them. That's "MA tradition" and everybody should protect it, We will all get old or get sick some day. It makes no sense for a 20 years old student to beat up a 90 years old teacher in any MA system.
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Really??
I have no problem with any student (if they are prepared and skill ready) asking me to spar. No problem at all. Also have several fighters who can beat me most anytime and still ask for me to spar them. Keeps them on their toes. They are faster, stronger, and can go longer but in most cases my timing is still better.
When it comes to the better skill students it is often better for them to spar those younger higher skilled students than sparring me. Sparring isn't about beating up the other person but about becoming better.
 
jobo said:
ok or really good amateur, but the point remains its a hard sell being a coach at anything unless you are or at least were very good at the sports itself
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As I get older, the "were" thing is getting to be more the case. Especially in grappling. Joint issues, ya know. So it's getting to be "Do as I say, not as I do". Too bad.

You and I are about the same age, Jobo (I'm 62), but age can affect each of us differently. In my early fifties, Like you, I was still in great shape and kept it up until pretty recently --especially my conditioning. I thought I could hold on for decades! But, in the last couple of years, injuries (back, knees, ankles) have made it painful just to be on my feet for too long, much less run. And, without the cardio, my weight has gone up some too. :eek:

I can still do our forms and drills, kick, punch, and spar a bit. But the other night when I tried to shoot-in on a student to show him that his "anti-grappling" take-down defenses were garbage, my knees and back really suffered ...and my technique was terrible (still slammed him on the floor though). And the next day the pain taught me that I can't keep doing that.

Does that mean I have to give up coaching and close down my club? I hope not. :( ...Maybe if I can recruit some young wrestlers who can help me out?
 
I never heard of any tradition where a student couldn't ask an instructor if they would spar with them - done politely of course. I used to ask my instructors to spar with me all the time.

In my opinion, one of the major long term goals of an instructor, any instructor, is to make the serious student a better, more knowledgeable Martial Artist than he/she is. Sparring/rolling with them is a big part of it, again, in my opinion.
 
Midnight-shadow said:
There are plenty of top coaches who have never competed themselves:
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It can be another extreme as well.

If you are a MA instructor and you are 3 times national champion in your MA system, some of your new students (who doesn't intend to stay long) may try to defeat you so they can brag about they are better than the national champion. They are taken the "short cut to be famous" without going through year after year of tournament competition. It won't be fair to you and you should not give them that opportunity.
 
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jobo said:
ok or really good amateur, but the point remains its a hard sell being a coach at anything unless you are or at least were very good at the sports iits self
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It's the easiest way to establish early credibility. But there are some coaches who were never elite players - they went from good players to coaches. The knowledge base required for the two roles has a huge overlap, but the overlap of skills isn't as big, when you consider execution level. So, a coach has to know how to do the thing he's coaching, but he doesn't have to be as good as his players at it. It appears (based upon who we see succeeding) to be helpful if he once was very good at it, and that makes logic sense.
 
jobo said:
Angelo Dundee isn't around or successful, Mr Williams was replaced as their coach as soon as they got some money and I've nether heard of two of them
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Who we've heard of is about fame, and what we pay attention to - not about who's a good coach.
 
Buka said:
I never heard of any tradition where a student couldn't ask an instructor if they would spar with them .
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May be it's only the Chinese MA thing.

- My teacher's teacher told my teacher.
- My teacher told me.
- I told my students.
- My students told their students.
- ...

I loved to wrestle with my students. But some student didn't like to wrestle with me. They told me that by wrestling with me, they could lose their self-confidence big time. I tried not to wrestle with my students 3 months before their tournament. I wanted to help them to maintain their self-confidence. I do love to wrestle with my students after their winning in their tournament to decrease their ego a bit. This way, they would know that they still have room to advance.
 
gpseymour said:
I teach my students to counter everything I can think of.
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To teach is one thing. To train is another. If you don't include certain counters as part of your student's daily training, even they know it. They still can't use it.

For example, if you don't teach your students how to counter an "circle dragging", it may take them a long time to figure it out. Even that, they still won't be able to react correctly within that 1/4 second time frame.
 
gpseymour said:
Who we've heard of is about fame, and what we pay attention to - not about who's a good coach.
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if they had been successful as international coaches i would have heard of them, coaching one good athletes is as much about luck as ability,
 
geezer said:
As I get older, the "were" thing is getting to be more the case. Especially in grappling. Joint issues, ya know. So it's getting to be "Do as I say, not as I do". Too bad.

You and I are about the same age, Jobo (I'm 62), but age can affect each of us differently. In my early fifties, Like you, I was still in great shape and kept it up until pretty recently --especially my conditioning. I thought I could hold on for decades! But, in the last couple of years, injuries (back, knees, ankles) have made it painful just to be on my feet for too long, much less run. And, without the cardio, my weight has gone up some too. :eek:

I can still do our forms and drills, kick, punch, and spar a bit. But the other night when I tried to shoot-in on a student to show him that his "anti-grappling" take-down defenses were garbage, my knees and back really suffered ...and my technique was terrible (still slammed him on the floor though). And the next day the pain taught me that I can't keep doing that.

Does that mean I have to give up coaching and close down my club? I hope not. :( ...Maybe if I can recruit some young wrestlers who can help me out?
Click to expand...

I think it is different if you are old. For me I am old but thankfully don't teach. So i can loose sparring sessions anytime I want. Makes no difference.
 
jobo said:
if they had been successful as international coaches i would have heard of them, coaching one good athletes is as much about luck as ability,
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Heard of greg jackson?
 
jobo said:
is he English? Is it a main,stream sport, if its some obscure American mma trainer from new mexico or some such outlandish place then no I've not heard of him
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Heard of John Jones?
 
Wait for it. One fighter does not make a trend.

 
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