American Martial Arts: Issue of rank

[kroh]

There are actually many schools across the globe that do not use a rank structure. Make no mistake that there is a pecking order, but there is no outward display of rank used. The student bodies are small and the school is usually conducted as private (you have to be accepted as a student, not just walk in and pay tuition). If you come to classes and use what you have been taught then you are a practitioner of the system. It is really that easy. If you are leading the class you are obviously an instructor.

If we want to use American Martial Arts, in keeping with the theme of the thread, look at Boxing. There is a sizable following for this martial sport all across the country. If you go to a boxing gym, there are no outward displays of rank or social structure in place. There are boxers and trainers (and those that wish they were one or the other). The same is true of folk or freestyle wrestling. As a combative sport, they also do not use ranks or outward signs of placement. They also have a huge following throughout the country.

The only reason that ranks are seen as such an essential part of the process is that we, as Americans, can't seem to divorce ourselves from the myth that title equals power. In truth, only money, skill, or conviction can grant you that. You can pay some one to do something for you, or you can do it yourself, or you can decide that even though something is impossible, you can convince yourself or others you try it anyway. In this manner you have power. A title only has power as long as the people under it allow it to. You can be a prime minister of a country but if the people under you render a vote of no confidence you can be removed (parlimentray system). You can be a president and can be impeached (US governmental system).

I personally beleive that some ranks structures for commercial martial arts schools are a good thing. They allow those walking in to witness the pecking order in action as well as remind the initiated who is supposed to peck first. Private schools and clubs need no such distinction as the member body is usually small and everyone knows who is who.

The tail of the argument is that Rank in America can be as tangible or negligable as we want it to be. WE are the architects of these systems and as such have the power to affect how they will be used. The question is whether or not you will use these systems to the benefit of your school and students or will you turn out to be a money hungry dirtbag looking for the payday. If you are the former then many will salute your merrits and achievements. If you are the later...it all comes around...just wait for it. If you are some where in the middle, chances are that you are trying to figure out how the whole thing should work so that you AND your students benefit.

In the end... The students have the real power. Without subordinates, titles like master have no meaning. Hard to be a master if there is nothing to compare your skill to.

...Of course that has never stopped people before.

Regards,
Walt

 

[Kreth]

I believe it's been said before, but for someone who wants to eliminate rank, the OP sure has a lot of it on display at his site... :uhoh:

 

[terryl965]

Kasho you down play American Martial Arts but yet on your website it say founded in America does that make sense to you?

Also you say rank is un important but is this not your rank system for your own system
[SIZE=+2]RANK SYSTEM[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Belt/classification Roll with in the school Title[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]White belt (Beginner)

2nd White belt (Beginner)

Yellow belt (Beginner)

Orange belt (Beginner)

2nd Orange belt (Beginner)

3rd Orange belt (Beginner)

Green belt (Intermediate)

Purple belt (Intermediate) (Helper) (San Kyu)

Brown belt (Advanced) (Assistant) (San Kyu)

2ndBrown belt (Advanced) (Assistant) (San Kyu)

Jr Black belt (If under age of 16) (Assistant) (Sir, Mr, Miss.)

1st Dan Black belt (Assistant Inst or instructor) (Sifu, Sensai)

2nd Dan Black belt (Assistant Inst or instructor) (Sifu, Sensai)

3rd Dan Black belt (Cheif,or Head instructor) (Sifu, Sensai)

4th Dan Black belt (Master Instructor) (Master, Sifu, Sensai)

5th Dan Black belt (Master Instructor) (Master, Sifu, Sensai) (Grand Master)

Founder (Master Instructor) (Master)

[SIZE=-1]* Belt color and titles may change in a school at the discretion of a recognized Käsho instructor. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Seems to me you want people to give up what you are not ready to do yet yourself.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Best regards[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Master Stoker[/SIZE]

 

[Kasho]

Great post Kroh!!!

There are many other good post here that are on subject as well since my last post.

Now I truly am not wishing to tick people off here and I know that rank (as we all can see) is a very controversial thing.

There are many people here with several years in the arts like myself that I am sure remember a time when under belt ranks ran like this: White belt, Green, Brown, Black. Then the yellow belt was added because of the big jump from white to green belt.

Then you throw in the orange, blue, purple, red, camo, tan and on and on. Now lets not forget to add a bunch of levels to each rank.

The belts are of lesser value for one because there are now lesser things to learn per belt.
Should a belt be given for each technique learned?? And what cost $$ do we put on it?

When talking about the arts and rank in general we also must look at why each person studies their art. Is it for the tradition, culture, history, fitness or the defense factor? We all study for different reasons and see what we do as better. I myself have what I see as my core system but for the last two years have been studying TSD for more of a continuing education thing. I have hosted this year a Jujitsu workshop with a person from out of Il, and had a Pakua introduction presented by an instructor from OH. That has been doing many workshops in the Michigan area. At present we are setting up an event with a professional boxer. Education is what it is all about. Body mechanics and proper techniques are a must. Traditional ways were not seen as important to some like Miyamoto Musashi or Bruce Lee. This does not mean that proper training is not important nor hard work if it’s not SO-Called “Traditional”.

But does hard work have to have some colored cloth come with it each month and at a financial cost? Should not the praise of the instructor and other students be more than enough?

Your thoughts?

As I about was about to post, Terry tries to make a point that I must now make people aware of.

Kasho you down play American Martial Arts but yet on your website it say founded in America does that make sense to you?

Also you say rank is un important but is this not your rank system for your own system

I can’t remember putting down American MA on anything but some of it's Rank.

Maybe not on this board but on mine and others I have told people that we will be reducing our under belt ranks staring on the 15th of August. This is the first step in the reduction process. Of course we already only have a five Dan system but that will be reduced in the future.

As I have stated on this board reduction or removal should be done in a slow manner while education our students and the public of what is really important.

Terry thanks for bring this up so people can see reduction in action. You are truly helping the cause. lol.


Thanks,
Brad

 

[chinto01]

Brad if I read your post right you are planning to reduce some of your kyu ranks and eventually dan ranks. Is this in an effort to eliminate ranking altogether at your school?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Kasho]

Brad if I read your post right you are planning to reduce some of your kyu ranks and eventually dan ranks. Is this in an effort to eliminate ranking altogether at your school?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Thanks for the question.

Our schools under my control (Cant speak for all our schools) will reduce the kyu ranks down to a very minimal system and may remove or trade the belts for something different. The Dan rank will be reduced down to just Black belt no Dan term will even be used. Again this too maybe changed to something else.

As a tournament promoter I have some input on how rank is seen on rank when it comes to the sport aspect in this area.

Thanks again,
Brad

 

[Kreth]

Our schools under my control (Cant speak for all our schools) will reduce the kyu ranks down to a very minimal system and may remove or trade the belts for something different. The Dan rank will be reduced down to just Black belt no Dan term will even be used. Again this too maybe changed to something else.

Will you be dropping the Master title as well?

 

[chinto01]

Will you be dropping the Master title as well?

Very interesting question!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Kasho]

Will you be dropping the Master title as well?

Could be! Titles have a certain place of significance but could be guru, teacher, Sir, founder and so on. Master only means master instructor have only meaning to teaching level and is not necessary meaning master of the world as many would have you believe. It has no more significance in difference than a master plumber over plumber.

However founder is a higher title than master!

There are those that go around calling themselves master in any way and time they can, posts, verbally, letters and so on. And you have those that use the term in the Korean arts when this is not a word from that culture and was never meant to be used there.

At the inception of our system we used no terms just first names. If you would like more info on why the change on this or other things in our system or why the three founders took the steps they did just PM me.


Brad

 

[Brother John]

OK....sounds like you're wanting to come off as being more reasonable now.

Now I truly am not wishing to tick people off here and I know that rank (as we all can see) is a very controversial thing.

Is that an apology for your previous behavior?

There are many people here with several years in the arts like myself that I am sure remember a time when under belt ranks ran like this: White belt, Green, Brown, Black. Then the yellow belt was added because of the big jump from white to green belt.

Yes. I was brought up in systems that were that way: White - Green - Brown - Black.

Then the yellow belt was added because of the big jump from white to green belt.

In our school it was added to give another step in the progression as the amount of curricula from white to Green was out of balance.
It made good sense.

Then you throw in the orange, blue, purple, red, camo, tan and on and on. Now lets not forget to add a bunch of levels to each rank.

WOW...not my school. Camo? That's kinda silly, but not silly from you....just silly.....I've seen it. Makes me giggle.

The belts are of lesser value for one because there are now lesser things to learn per belt.

Actually....that's something you are assuming I think. What about schools who's instructors believe in "Ongoing Education" and the like?? Such as yourself. Then they have more info to 'insert' and it's got to go somewhere sensible w/in the continuum of their ranking structure. Besides: Why would the belt mean less? To me the belt is not about the amount of curriculum known but about a level of personal development and achievement. THAT cannot be spread thin unless you lower your standards.
...which is Never good.

Should a belt be given for each technique learned?? And what cost $$ do we put on it?

Again, you are equating the belt ranks for amount of curriculum known.
Would you give a person a belt who'd not spent much time in your school, who came in and merely displayed that they DO know the material up through Brown Belt.... would you give them that rank once they proved that?
I doubt you would. You'd want to see them develop, to know their maturity level and to see other qualities about them and their execution or understanding.....not just their amount of knowledge in the technical application of your system. I think that if an instructor gives rank based only on the amount of technial curriculum known by the student...then it's not the rank inflaters who've devalued rank.....it'd be Those instructors.

When talking about the arts and rank in general we also must look at why each person studies their art. Is it for the tradition, culture, history, fitness or the defense factor? We all study for different reasons and see what we do as better.

I'm not seeing how this is relevant. Everyone is motivated to train for different reasons, that's great....it's true. What does that have to do with the standards of a school/instructor or rank w/in an art???
Not seeing the connection you're trying to make.
I DO aplaud your outlook on ongoing education! Good stuff!!

But does hard work have to have some colored cloth come with it each month and at a financial cost? Should not the praise of the instructor and other students be more than enough?

1. Do you give rank each month? Do you think we do?
2. Do you think that hard work "comes with" colored cloth? Or is it an outward sign of personal development in more than just technical ability?
3. Do you attach money to rank? Do you think we do? I've never sold rank, and I've never bought it either. I've compensated my instructors for their time, and my students do the same for me. But rank in our art is not up for sale., I don't care how much we are offered.

Praise is arbitrary, and no ...it's not "enough", but it should be in there.
Equating rank and praise is like saying that rank is nothing more than an ego-stroking pat on the back. It's not. It's a tangible acknowledgment that this person has put in their time and effort consistently, shown dedication and drive, taken the initiative, shown the maturity as well as the development in technical ability that is required to reach the next level.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to take "Rank" out of the picture. So be it, thats your deal. But what does it benefit the student?? Not a challenge there, just an honest question. Why was rank a hinderance at your school? IF the mindset shifted and rank became TOO important, who's responsibility is it to keep the general mindset of a school on track? IF the focus became rank and not personal development and growth, then that's wrong.....but is the solution removal of rank? OR....couldn't it be a "Getting back on track" mentality in which the standards of the school are strictly upheld???

I don't know. I asked you before why you are reducing rank at your school(s)....and how you'd be achieving it.
You never answered.

Your Brother
John

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note:

Thread moved to The Great Debate Forum. Please read the Forum Rules as they differ from the rest of MartialTalk before you continue.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Super Moderator

 

[Rich Parsons]

I have returned refreshed from vacation, and now have come to check on you good people.

Some of the people here have stuck to the subject and made some good points on both sides, while others are still trying to take shoots at me personally, Sad! To me this just shows that you are poor martial arties because of the lack of self-control, aggressive nature that shows no discipline when it comes to self-restraint. It also is disrespectful to your instructor because it makes them look as a poor instructor when you show no respect to others (no matter what the rank).

We all claim to be able to learn from anyone, but the people here fist wish to know your “RANK” as some sign (standardized form) of knowledge before speaking to you.

Rank is being reduced in this country (like it or not) at a fast pace. Many of you good people may just be hearing of this but it’s true. Some people will and have dropped rank all together, while other are reducing all in an effort to reduce abuse.

Now for those good ma people that have earned those high Dan rank, they if they chose to keep them will be scrutinized harshly for that decision.

People this is not about me! And your little attacks on me mean very little, I doubt most of the way people bill themselves and I too also question the truth of most people’s training. However in truth if I wish too (and at this time done) NO ONE here can be as nasty or cool hearted as me if need be. If you are one of those traditional bad butts that think you need to physically come and shut someone down that you don’t agree with, I would more than welcome you! (Good luck).

Okay hopefully you get the point that I have no fear of anyone here on this board or in person. As to traditional arts I do have a respect for them, but Mr. Fearner TKD is at the bottom of the list (I once trained in Chung Do Kwan).

Again this tread was about AMERICAN MARTIAL ARTS! If it applies to you fine, if not what are you worried about????

Goodnight people.

Brad

First, I do not like the way you comment on things. If people do not agree with you they are not true martial artists and disrespect their instructors.

Second, you hit run away and then come back and splash more around.

TROLL BEHAVIOUR!

Third, you refused to read and or answer simple questions that do apply to you and also others, such as my previous post. Which either makes you a TROLL or too lazy to care and jsut another fine example of an American bringing the best out of themselves.


Lastly, I do not think you have the will or the courage or the capabilities to answer mine and other questions here in an open and honest manner. You will use smoke and mirrors. If you like you can prove me wrong. For in my opinion you have insulted us here. You have insulted your previous instructors and dishonored them and also those who train with you. (* What I cannot use your own logic and arguement back with you? Fine then, just hit the little red triangle and report me. Which will just show how much of a coward you truly are. *)

Enjoy

 

[chinto01]

That could have been the shot heard around the world. Good points however.


In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[terryl965]

First, I do not like the way you comment on things. If people do not agree with you they are not true martial artists and disrespect their instructors.

Second, you hit run away and then come back and splash more around.

TROLL BEHAVIOUR!

Third, you refused to read and or answer simple questions that do apply to you and also others, such as my previous post. Which either makes you a TROLL or too lazy to care and jsut another fine example of an American bringing the best out of themselves.


Lastly, I do not think you have the will or the courage or the capabilities to answer mine and other questions here in an open and honest manner. You will use smoke and mirrors. If you like you can prove me wrong. For in my opinion you have insulted us here. You have insulted your previous instructors and dishonored them and also those who train with you. (* What I cannot use your own logic and arguement back with you? Fine then, just hit the little red triangle and report me. Which will just show how much of a coward you truly are. *)

Enjoy

Mr Parson you have made the greatest post ever, let see how he goes around this.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

Great post Kroh!!!

There are many other good post here that are on subject as well since my last post.

Now I truly am not wishing to tick people off here and I know that rank (as we all can see) is a very controversial thing.

There are many people here with several years in the arts like myself that I am sure remember a time when under belt ranks ran like this: White belt, Green, Brown, Black. Then the yellow belt was added because of the big jump from white to green belt.

Then you throw in the orange, blue, purple, red, camo, tan and on and on. Now lets not forget to add a bunch of levels to each rank.

The belts are of lesser value for one because there are now lesser things to learn per belt.
Should a belt be given for each technique learned?? And what cost $$ do we put on it?

When talking about the arts and rank in general we also must look at why each person studies their art. Is it for the tradition, culture, history, fitness or the defense factor? We all study for different reasons and see what we do as better. I myself have what I see as my core system but for the last two years have been studying TSD for more of a continuing education thing. I have hosted this year a Jujitsu workshop with a person from out of Il, and had a Pakua introduction presented by an instructor from OH. That has been doing many workshops in the Michigan area. At present we are setting up an event with a professional boxer. Education is what it is all about. Body mechanics and proper techniques are a must. Traditional ways were not seen as important to some like Miyamoto Musashi or Bruce Lee. This does not mean that proper training is not important nor hard work if it’s not SO-Called “Traditional”.

But does hard work have to have some colored cloth come with it each month and at a financial cost? Should not the praise of the instructor and other students be more than enough?

Your thoughts?

As I about was about to post, Terry tries to make a point that I must now make people aware of.


I can’t remember putting down American MA on anything but some of it's Rank.

Maybe not on this board but on mine and others I have told people that we will be reducing our under belt ranks staring on the 15th of August. This is the first step in the reduction process. Of course we already only have a five Dan system but that will be reduced in the future.

As I have stated on this board reduction or removal should be done in a slow manner while education our students and the public of what is really important.

Terry thanks for bring this up so people can see reduction in action. You are truly helping the cause. lol.


Thanks,
Brad

Brad just because you rerduce a few ranks in your so called system means absolutely nothing to me or anybody else here, what does concern me is the fact that you have not made an ateempt to answer question without the smoke and mirrors. You sir are a well let say a two headed person in one hand your trying to save MA as long as you can benefit from it.

Where is the dignity in saying what you said to Last Fearner, where is a sincere apology, where does one with being a founder of your own sytem make you higher than anybody else. Remember you said a founder is higher than a Master, I can found a system over night and find some people to believe in me, what happened to being loyal to your instructors and bringing respect to there names or is that to be forgotten as well.

Please in the future do not say I'm helping your cusaid becaus eI'm against want you are trying to do.

Sincerly
Master Stoker
to my friend in MA just Terry

 

[Kasho]

Wow,

Okay first I am trying to answer questions here!!!! I wish someone would go back and add up all the questions that have been asked of me here. What are the rhetorical ones and what are the ones that are in reality just taking shoots at me, and then you have to try to find the ones that are real questions with true merit. Now that being said I am sure that some I have just forgotten to respond to, Sorry!

As to apology, I have tried not to get upset with to constant attacks but it is getting a little tedious and childish. (Would someone also count the personal attacks on me and what I do) Again I am not trying to make people mad here just trying to have a conversation. If I have upset people here I do indeed apologize here and now. I just leave it at that.

As to the questions: Mr. Parsons you did not restate your question here so I am not sure what it was, for that I am sorry. Brother John (whom I’m liking our conversation better now) said something to the effect: How I would be reducing rank or how to achieve it.

As you know I have spoke of this before (like people talking about katas more than once) at other times, I try to hold off on how I am doing things as I don’t wish to influence others on how the should achieve this.

This I think should be done slowly. Belts were not placed into the arts overnight and they will not and should not leave that way. Many people will also refuse to give them up and that is ok too. This alone is not just mine thought of reducing rank so please don’t just see this as my pet project. This if/and when it does happen does not need to have my name attached to it for some type of credit. I don’t need or am I looking for it.

I have talked to people about how dropping rank all together could hurt schools, supply companies, manufacturing companies and more. Belts are big business and there is a lot of money being made by the people that make and sell them. Jobs could be lost and business could close down. I do not wish people to lose their jobs or divorces to occur due to someone loosing their job and having the family financial matters become to much.

We must educate our students on the importance of training, defense, fitness, traditional or what ever you see as most important. This continued education along with a slow reduction will not be so threatening to people and will be meet with less resistance.

As to what we are doing at this time.

We are at the reduced 5 Dan system now (I think I stated that earlier).
August 15 is the date set to reduce three levels of rank from our under-belts structure.
There will be a greater reduction of the kyu ranks in the future as well as the Dan ranks.

80+ years (for karate) of a habit is hard to remove all at once.

I hope this help illustrate more of what we are trying to achieve.

We have discussed on this tread many ways rank has and can be abused, this is all set to help lessen this horrible practice.

Later,
Brad

 

[Flying Crane]

August 15 is the date set to reduce three levels of rank from our under-belts structure.
There will be a greater reduction of the kyu ranks in the future as well as the Dan ranks.

To get back to Brother John's question, I think the heart of the question is not just about the belts themselves, but rather the curriculum. What will happen to the material being taught at the levels that are being eliminated? Will it be spread out into the levels above and below that level, or eliminated? How will the reduction of belts affect the overall quality of the training, with regard to the established curriculum?

 

[Brother John]

I have no problem with anyone who wants to take "Rank" out of the picture. So be it, thats your deal.

1. But what does it benefit the student?? Not a challenge there, just an honest question.
2. Why was rank a hinderance at your school?
3. IF the mindset shifted and rank became TOO important, who's responsibility is it to keep the general mindset of a school on track?
4. IF the focus became rank and not personal development and growth, then that's wrong.....but is the solution removal of rank?
5. OR....couldn't it be a "Getting back on track" mentality in which the standards of the school are strictly upheld???

Your Brother
John

Brad
these are just some of the questions from a recent reply I gave that've gone un answered. Usually one could deduce that they were a question to be answered by the clever use of "question" marks at their end..but for ease of detection I've here separated them out and highlighted And underlined them...so that they won't get missed.
Thanks

Your Brother
John

 

[Kasho]

Thanks for the post.


Brother John and Michael, I am heading out to class but will come back later and respond to these questions.

Thanks,
Brad

 

[Brother John]

Here are questions YOU asked:
1st Post:

1. We must remember that rank is only good with in your school or system. Has this all become a one ups man ship?
2. Or is it something that is being used for marketing while trying to recruit new students?
3. So were Kano & Funakoshi people of great vision when it came to the belt system? Or were they two of the most destructive people to the arts in history?
4. So why do we still have rank and the old belt system?

...as well as some assertions and propositions that you put forth that I think are worth addressing:

1. So it appears to this writer that familiarity, fear and a need of self-importance would be the reasons that many have kept the old way of doing things.
2. The problem is to many people think this must mean a person is so much better than a third, forth or fifth Dan being a tenth Dan. These higher ranks for years have been held like a carrot in front of the lower Dan’s noses as a way of keeping them loyal or in line by associations.
3. Somewhere along the way we got so tied up (forgive the pun) in belts and rank we have forgotten the true meaning of the belt structure. We must remember that rank is only good with in your school or system.
4. Many arts today have a 10 Dan system so their art or their instructors have some sense of superiority over others. But truth be know a 10th Dan is only equal to some systems 5th Dan if that is the highest rank of that art.

Neither of these lists is complete.....but come-on.....I'm writing enough as it is.
OK, from the first list...your questions..., here are my answers/replies:
1. You stated a simple FACT, rank is only relvant w/in the art and/or school (maybe association) that it is w/in. You cannot compare a rank in one school with a rank earned in another school...except Maybe on the most general of basis. SO::: How could there be "one upsmanship"?? If the rank of the instructor in the school down the street is two degrees higher, WHO CARES!!! Bully for him. IF it has NO relevance to my rank or my school, why care?
2.Marketing? Sure....that's used. But once a schools been in an area or a town long enough, people....in general....KNOW who's who and who knows what. I come from a town in which there is an instructor who runs a "full time" TKD school and he himself is a "Master" (7th Dan) and a student under a "Grandmaster" in a big association. Then there's the other TKD school, lead by a man who's been doing this for a LONG time...but only has a 4th Dan. The people in town KNOW that the 4th Dan is THE MAN for TKD in town, the other guys business Hurts because of this. I know both men personally....and believe me.......the rank they wear about their waist and teh rank they wear in the community is NOT the same!!!
Like I've said before: Hold HIGH standards and expect excellence....then wear whatever you like....because the students will Know who's who.
What "markets" better? A reputation for excellence and comraderie w/in the school.... or the words "Fifth Degree Black Belt, Master Instructor" emblazoned across the front window?
Unfortunately, the later does work to bring people in the door...but the Lasting and truest form of marketing is in the hearts of the community....and that is EARNED, not sprayed on glass.
3. That is a rediculous assertion.
Seriously: rediculous.
They were the Greatest thing to happen to Shotokan Karate-Do and to Judo. They established rank and rank orders to suit their purposes, and they did it well. The fact that later....Years down the road.....others would try to pervert the system is NOT their fault.
4. Because they work for our purposes, just as they were established to do.
((if they don't suit you and your purposes....then drop it))

OK:
on to your assertions.
1. Then you missed the point of rank at all, or was never taught it. You've let your perception of rank and it's useage be shaped by those who've abused it..... and now you're wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Seeing as how you think that fear and familiarity and self agrandizement are the reasons for KEEPING a ranking system, then you SHOULD drop it...
one should never mess with things that they don't understand.
That's Not an attack, it's honest.
2. Again you highlight your misconception of what rank is, what it does and how it should be used. If someone holds their rank over your head to "keep you in line" then Run, don't walk, away from such a person, school or association. I don't keep loyal and dedicated to my instructors out of fear, intimidation or the Pulling of Rank.....no way!!! I do so because they have given of themselves to me. They have returned respect for respect and dedication for dedication!! I owe them so much more than dues and simple respect. They remain the keys, the doorways to the knowledge and skills I seek.... so it just makes sense. But they'd never ask me to do Anything that goes against my conscience or better judgement.
if they did, it'd terminate our relationship....NOT "Keep me in line".
Again:IF this is what you think rank is or how it functions, then by all means....rid yourself of it.
3. Rank IS only in effect at your own school or w/in your art/system.
Maybe YOU've gotten all tied up in rank. That's too bad. But you CANNOT talk for all of us, or even a minority of us. This is something you've come into through your experiences. I do agree that there are those out there that abuse rank and hand it out like candy thrown at a parade....
but it doesn't mean that you need to get away from 'rank', but get away from this kind of improper mentality regarding it.
Rank is a measuring stick, and other than that.....it's a sign of your instructors trust and belief in you, their opinion of you....
it's really not much more than that.
4. It really seems to me that that's a little....misleading.
basically that's a way to "back-door" a 10th Dan w/out having to walk the long path to earn one.
After all....isn't this "..a 5th Dan is equal to 10th.." coming from a 5th Dan in a system that only uses 5 Dan grades?????


One last question: You may have stated this already, but I must have missed it...
Who promoted You to 5th Dan??

..that was a real question
a real answer would be greatly appreciated...

Your Brother
John