Aikido.. The reality?

[Hanzou]

Exactly who is arguing with you about the state of the Aikido community being poor? The state of the community is not analogous with the overall value or worth of the system.

If a huge swath (if not the majority) of Aikido schools are falsely saying that they can teach you how to effectively defeat multiple attackers, or assailants larger/stronger than you, that isn't a very valuable or worthy system.

Lol, I learned it from the guy who taught me Aikido, most certainly not in a BJJ gym.

I'm aware that many instructors pull Bjj techniques off of Youtube and teach it to their students.

You do of course realize "illegal moves" still get taught in Judo schools and old Judo moves do not become BJJ moves just because they get taught in BJJ gyms?

You do of course realize that illegal moves are also not allowed in randori practice, so Judoka don't practice them. Since they don't practice them, they eventually fade in effectiveness until they're pretty much forgotten. Again, this happened to leg locks almost a century ago. Yeah, they're still in the kata, but good luck finding a Judoka who can perform an effective leglock against a resisting opponent.

 

[Shatteredzen]

That particular throw would more than likely be illegal in Judo.

You do of course realize "illegal moves" still get taught in Judo schools and old Judo moves do not become BJJ moves just because they get taught in BJJ gyms?

 

[Shatteredzen]

If a huge swath (if not the majority) of Aikido schools are falsely saying that they can teach you how to effectively defeat multiple attackers, or assailants larger/stronger than you, that isn't a very valuable or worthy system.

I don't think a huge swath or a majority of Aikido schools advertise that, most martial arts schools don't advertise much regarding specific "capabilities" nor do they go about guaranteeing them.

 

[Shatteredzen]

You do of course realize that illegal moves are also not allowed in randori practice, so Judoka don't practice them. Since they don't practice them, they eventually fade in effectiveness until they're pretty much forgotten. Again, this happened to leg locks almost a century ago. Yeah, they're still in the kata, but good luck finding a Judoka who can perform an effective leglock against a resisting opponent.

I'm an Aikido guy who can perform an effective leg lock and a guillotine choke against a resisting opponent, that does not make either of those things Aikido. I know plenty of Judoka who can do this, you act as if people don't train in multiple styles. If you really want to persist with this nonsensical logic then I contend that the guillotine choke is an Aikido move, since that makes as much sense as anything you are arguing.

 

[Hanzou]

I don't think a huge swath or a majority of Aikido schools advertise that, most martial arts schools don't advertise much regarding specific "capabilities" nor do they go about guaranteeing them.

If a huge swath of Aikido schools didn't advertise that, then why do so many Aikidoka believe that they can subdue a larger/stronger opponent with Aikido?

 

[Hanzou]

I'm an Aikido guy who can perform an effective leg lock and a guillotine choke against a resisting opponent...

Because you cross trained in Bjj.

 

[Shatteredzen]

If a huge swath of Aikido schools didn't advertise that, then why do so many Aikidoka believe that they can subdue a larger/stronger opponent with Aikido?

Where are you getting these statistics?

 

[Hanzou]

Where are you getting these statistics?

So are you saying that Aikidoka don't believe that they can subdue larger/stronger attackers with Aikido?

 

[Shatteredzen]

Because you cross trained in Bjj.

Sure did, but I got into Aikido, Judo and BJJ as separate parts of the same thing.

 

[Hanzou]

Sure did, but I got into Aikido, Judo and BJJ as separate parts of the same thing.

Nah. I wouldn't put Aikido in the same category as Bjj and Judo. We have evidence of Bjj and Judo working as advertised. Aikido? Not so much.

 

[Shatteredzen]

So are you saying that Aikidoka don't believe that they can subdue larger/stronger attackers with Aikido?

Some do, I'm sure, I wouldn't be making wagers on Aikido by itself and I'm the only "Aikidoka" here as far as I can tell. People are stupid as hell though, I don't hold BJJ accountable for all the silly *** stuff its students come up with, like Judo moves being BJJ

 

[Shatteredzen]

Nah. I wouldn't put Aikido in the same category as Bjj and Judo. We have evidence of Bjj and Judo working as advertised. Aikido? Not so much.

Judo is the parent art, Aikido and BJJ are the derivatives. Aikido made some bad decisions and got into drugs back in the day, BJJ ate lots of protein and got tons of exercise. Doesn't mean they don't both have stuff to offer the world.

 

[Hanzou]

Judo is the parent art, Aikido and BJJ are the derivatives. Aikido made some bad decisions and got into drugs back in the day, BJJ ate lots of protein and got tons of exercise. Doesn't mean they don't both have stuff to offer the world.

Oh? Since you seem to acknowledge that Aikido can't help a smaller person overcome a larger person (which is odd because that's a hallmark of Jujitsu-based MA), what exactly can Aikido offer?

 

[Steve]

If you get to just wholesale make stuff up and add it to your style then cool, I get to add Judo to Aikido too.

I think aikido would be well served to add some judo.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Oh? Since you seem to acknowledge that Aikido can't help a smaller person overcome a larger person (which is odd because that's a hallmark of Jujitsu-based MA), what exactly can Aikido offer?

Sure it can, who told you it couldn't?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Jowga is saying that an Aikidoka wouldn't get involved in a multiple opponent situation, which would seem rather bizarre considering that Aikido advertises itself as a martial art that can EFFECTIVELY deal with multiple attackers.

What I can't understand is that you bash Aikido for not being able to fight, then for whatever logic you are using, you believe that Aikido practitioners are going to jump into a situation where they are clearly going to have to fight against multiple people.

So which one is it? Aikido practitioners can't fight? or Aikido practitioners can fight which is why they would jump into a fight against 5 or more people?

What some Aikido schools advertise is irrelevant to the reality of fighting against numbers. While you are at it go ahead and throw Chi Ball fighters, MMA, Kung Fu fighters, and BJJ fighters because they will all tell you that they can fight multiple people as well.

 

[Shatteredzen]

I think aikido would be well served to add some judo.

I think its imperative. I would love to see BJJ studios bring in the Aikido the way they have Judo and show some love to the foster kid in the family. I would pay good money to get into a big BJJ studio that spent some time theory crafting and practicing with Aikido techniques/principles. The Aikido community doesn't seem to be doing the work to fix itself, it would be great to see the brain trust in BJJ to work on salvaging Aikido from itself. Right now the BJJ community is having too much fun just making fun of it and pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[Hanzou]

Sure it can, who told you it couldn't?

Then wheres the evidence? The only people shown to seemingly use Aikido effectively are big burly men who cross train in other MAs.

 

[Hanzou]

What I can't understand is that you bash Aikido for not being able to fight, then for whatever logic you are using, you believe that Aikido practitioners are going to jump into a situation where they are clearly going to have to fight against multiple people.

So which one is it? Aikido practitioners can't fight? or Aikido practitioners can fight which is why they would jump into a fight against 5 or more people?

They're going to jump into that situation because the Aikido dojo they attended made them believe that they could take on multiple attackers and prevail.

What some Aikido schools advertise is irrelevant to the reality of fighting against numbers. While you are at it go ahead and throw Chi Ball fighters, MMA, Kung Fu fighters, and BJJ fighters because they will all tell you that they can fight multiple people as well.

Feel free to find a Bjj school that states that it will teach you how to beat multiple attackers.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Then wheres the evidence? The only people shown to seemingly use Aikido effectively are big burly men who cross train in other MAs.

Do you remember a few weeks ago when this was all theoretical? Now its only effective for big burly men who cross train other MA's since Dan the Wolfman and Remy made their videos. When we started this journey together I was just doing Japanese interpretive dance and none of it worked at all.