Aikido.. The reality?

[jayoliver00]

Exactly. An attacker who is armed with them is not going to be doing "tricks" when he's focused on taking you out.

Yea, it ain't rocket science. How many times have those Reality MA people tell you to pick up anything as an improvised weapon, ie. broom, rock, lamp, chair, etc. Here we already have actual weapons.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You didn't give any of the above with your disagreement to my post neither.

Um, it's impossible to prove a negative. You don't really understand how logic works, I take it?
You're making a claim. Actually, a bunch of them. With no reason for anyone to believe you.

 

[jayoliver00]

Um, it's impossible to prove a negative. You don't really understand how logic works, I take it?
You're making a claim. Actually, a bunch of them. With no reason for anyone to believe you.

You disagreed without tell me why. I did the same and you didn't like it.

 

[Yokozuna514]

What I'm saying here should be common sense, but let me illustrate it for you: when you hear of a stabbing on the local evening news, do you believe that the person who did the stabbing was trained in knives more often than not? Along with that, is there normally any mention of the person who did the stabbing injuring themselves with the knife? And what percentage of the time would you say these knife wielders get disarmed?

Ok, we can keep going around endlessly bringing up scenarios that will fit our narratives. Who's right ? Who's wrong ? Do they even have stats for this ? What's the point you are trying to make ? You are untrained and you pick up a bat. I'm trained and I see you have a bat, so I grab a bat too. Where do we go from here ? Someone is going to hit with a bat.

If by "handle," you mean in the way that they're supposed to be handled, that's not what I'm talking about. And unless you have been specifically trained in how to disarm people then, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'll even say that IF you have specific training on how to disarm people, fleeing is still the better option if possible.

It has been my experience that most people picking up nunchaku for the first time have a similar experience to jayoliver00.

I get that, but the point still stands that the untrained person with a bat, have a better chance vs. you (then him w/o at bat). If you're still going to beat his butt H2H anyways, then why wouldn't it give him a better chance with a bat; that's basically just a club.



I can still remember when I bought my first set of chuks. I was like 12 and the shop made me call home for parent's permission. No training, just watching Bruce Lee & Bruce Li movies. It was pretty easy to swing it with control as an attack & then control the stop or bounce back. It was only when I tried the movie tricks that I hit myself on that funny bone at the elbow more than a few times. Only a few times in the head as the 1st time causes you to be very cautious afterward. Not that big of a deal.

Now if an untrained person had a knife, that's a lot better for them.

Will an untrained person with a bat give them a better chance against a trained fighter ? I think that is their hope. Sure you can use anything around you as a weapon but that means your opponent can do that as well.

 

[jayoliver00]

It has been my experience that most people picking up nunchaku for the first time have a similar experience to jayoliver00.

So you agree? Because my experience was good with chuks.

Will an untrained person with a bat give them a better chance against a trained fighter ? I think that is their hope.

Are you saying that an untrained fighter would be better off w/o a bat than with, vs. a trained fighter? If he's already deadmeat going H2H vs. the trained fighter, then how is wielding a bat not give him a much better chance?

Sure you can use anything around you as a weapon but that means your opponent can do that as well.

What are the chances of there being 2 bats laying around? But if the Trained Fighter (opponent) can do that as well, then how would it be good for the untrained fighter to not pick up the bat or some other improvised weapon?

More significant would be a knife in the hands of the untrained; swinging a blade is not that hard.

 

[drop bear]

Can you name these weapons systems? How about 10, since you said "a lot".

Kind of like a guy who hacks at sugar cane plants 10 hours a days for years & years, with his machete on a plantation. Even if he doesn't train it for combat nor do MA's, nor ever sparred anyone; I still wouldn't want to mess with him. He's going to be really agile, fast, precise, strong, high stamina, etc. b/c all of his muscles, muscle memory, etc. are bulked up for this exact task.

A lot of weapon systems don't hack at sugar cane either.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You disagreed without tell me why. I did the same and you didn't like it.

Utter nonsense. Here:

Some of you are clearly making a lot of unwarranted and unsupportable assumptions and generalizations.

If there are words that you do not understand, I'll try to help.

 

[Urban Trekker]

A lot of weapon systems don't hack at sugar cane either.

This could apply in many other situations too. For example, you probably wouldn't want to face a chef armed with kitchen tools. They can probably do whole hell of a lot more to you with a meat cleaver than anyone else can.

If a player in the MLB can miss your head with a bat, he shouldn't be in the MLB to begin with.

 

[Steve]

His name is Rodrigo De La Santa Maria He's 25, single daddy, likes long walks along the beach and all the Rocky movies except Rocky V, which is a load of poop.

Which one is he?

 

[Steve]

A lot of weapon systems don't hack at sugar cane either.

I watched a kung fu movie one time where a guy kicked bamboo over and over until he was really good at punching bad guys.

 

[drop bear]

I watched a kung fu movie one time where a guy kicked bamboo over and over until he was really good at punching bad guys.

Bukau

This could apply in many other situations too. For example, you probably wouldn't want to face a chef armed with kitchen tools. They can probably do whole hell of a lot more to you with a meat cleaver than anyone else can.

If a player in the MLB can miss your head with a bat, he shouldn't be in the MLB to begin with.

All correct. But I don't think your long pole form in kung fu or ninjitsu training reflects these results.

And then thet had better hope that the untrained guy isn't a cane farmer.

 

[Steve]

Bukau


All correct. But I don't think your long pole form in kung fu or ninjitsu training reflects these results.

And then thet had better hope that the untrained guy isn't a cane farmer.

I sure wouldn't want to get punched by that guy.

 

[drop bear]

I sure wouldn't want to get punched by that guy.

Even if I had a stick and did forms.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Bukau


All correct. But I don't think your long pole form in kung fu or ninjitsu training reflects these results.

And then thet had better hope that the untrained guy isn't a cane farmer.

Very true. Never found myself in this situation, but if I had to use a six-foot long stick (or something similar to a bo), I'm probably not going to use it the way I was trained to. I'd probably use it like a baseball bat, just like anyone else would. Your hands are much safer that way, you get better distance, and more power behind the swing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok to be fair, I do see what you are saying. My sticking point is the 'compromise'. That implies a negative connotation (being critical) when evaluating something. Yes, we can and should do that from time to time but there is also another way to look at it from a more positive standpoint. Instead of looking at DB matches and picking out the areas of 'compromise' we can look at the very same thing and focus on the more 'positive' attributes of the exercise. Different strokes for different folks but that was all I was trying to say. My point is no more valid than yours, just seemingly............different ?

IMO, it’s useful and instructive to look at both sides of the compromise. With padded weapons, for instance, you gain the ability to practice with intent and power without serious risk of injury, and that comes with a lack of threat to the opponent, which will change their decisions and probably their tactics.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If we're talking about explosive and incendiary weapons, I agree. But a nunchaku to your skull is a nunchaku to your skull, whether the person wielding them was familiar with the weapon or not. The average person at cannot, or at least will not, walk into a weapon being swung around to disarm the person wielding it.

Edit: I removed "firearms" from the first sentence. I just had a "duh" moment.

I’ve seen far too many people use a nunchaku for the first time to think they’re better off with it in their hands without training.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I’ve seen far too many people use a nunchaku for the first time to think they’re better off with it in their hands without training.

Actually attacking someone with them, or just playing with them? If an untrained person can whack the side of your skull with a two and a half foot long steel chain, they can do the same thing with nunchaku.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Actually attacking someone with them, or just playing with them? If an untrained person can whack the side of your skull with a two and a half foot long steel chain, they can do the same thing with nunchaku.

Trying to swing them. They tend to wind up big (easy to see what’s coming) and swing too fast, so the flail end is kinda wobbling in space with reduced force. Or they swing really slow and get it otherwise kind of correct. Either way, they’d be better off with a broken nunchaku or empty hands. Only rarely have I seen someone pick them up the first time and make a reasonable swing the first time. They just don’t swing like a stick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

how do we think an aikidoka would fare vs folks who train in other styles or training models?

Depends on how they train. There's nothing that says Aikido techniques have to be applied to someone who is fresh. If he knows how punch and kick, then the person may get other things before the Aikido comes out.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I’ve seen far too many people use a nunchaku for the first time to think they’re better off with it in their hands without training.

Three section staff is like that. Anyone that learns it always talks about how the staff beats them up lol.