Aikido.. The reality?

[jayoliver00]

Depends on the system. A lot of weapons systems are drill or forms based. And therefore the edge they would have over an untrained guy would be minimal.

Can you name these weapons systems? How about 10, since you said "a lot".

Kind of like a guy who hacks at sugar cane plants 10 hours a days for years & years, with his machete on a plantation. Even if he doesn't train it for combat nor do MA's, nor ever sparred anyone; I still wouldn't want to mess with him. He's going to be really agile, fast, precise, strong, high stamina, etc. b/c all of his muscles, muscle memory, etc. are bulked up for this exact task.

 

[jayoliver00]

The type of weapon being used and skill of the person makes a difference. If a person doesn't know how to fight with certain weapons then it's better to not have it. Staff, Three section staff, Chain Whip, Baseball bat, and some other weapons may put the person in worse position trying to use it,

Untrained people are better off with these weapons than without. Even the chain whip; Just use the chain only when at long range. At close range, use the spike like a knife. I'd much rather fight someone who didn't have these weapons, then them do.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Untrained people are better off with these weapons than without. Even the chain whip; Just use the chain only when at long range. At close range, use the spike like a knife. I'd much rather fight someone who didn't have these weapons, then them do.

I wouldn't agree with you here. Untrained people using weapons unfamiliar to them are more a danger to themselves than their opponent. You would think that it is an advantage for them to have the weapon but odds are they will be disarmed and attacked with that very same weapon.

 

[jayoliver00]

I wouldn't agree with you here. Untrained people using weapons unfamiliar to them are more a danger to themselves than their opponent. You would think that it is an advantage for them to have the weapon but odds are they will be disarmed and attacked with that very same weapon.

You'd rather fight someone untrained, but armed with a baseball bat than without?

Worse would be, if he was untrained but with a knife. Which leads to all the skepticism about knife disarming training.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I wouldn't agree with you here. Untrained people using weapons unfamiliar to them are more a danger to themselves than their opponent. You would think that it is an advantage for them to have the weapon but odds are they will be disarmed and attacked with that very same weapon.

If we're talking about explosive and incendiary weapons, I agree. But a nunchaku to your skull is a nunchaku to your skull, whether the person wielding them was familiar with the weapon or not. The average person at cannot, or at least will not, walk into a weapon being swung around to disarm the person wielding it.

Edit: I removed "firearms" from the first sentence. I just had a "duh" moment.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Some of you are clearly making a lot of unwarranted and unsupportable assumptions and generalizations.

 

[Yokozuna514]

You'd rather fight someone untrained, but armed with a baseball bat than without?

Are you asking if I would "Rather" fight someone untrained with a baseball bat than someone untrained without a baseball bat ? I would rather not have to fight untrained people at all. If I was put in a position to fight someone who is untrained with a baseball bat, they are going to lose that bat.

If we're talking about firearms, explosive, and incendiary weapons, I agree. But a nunchaku to your skull is a nunchaku to your skull, whether the person wielding them was familiar with the weapon or not. The average person at cannot, or at least will not, walk into a weapon being swung around to disarm the person wielding it.

Have you ever tried to use nunchaku ? Not as easy as you seem to think. Chances are, if they are untrained with the nunchaku, they are going to lose that nunchaku.

 

[Martial D]

I would think that skill level and experience can also negate the use of weapons as well as multiple attackers but, all things being equal, having a weapon should give one an advantage over an opponent that has none.

The peanut gallery

Well. There is a reason weapons have always been a thing in warfare. Never has an army of fisticuffers vanquished anyone.

One person trained with a sword is worth 5 unarmed men.

And no amount of unarmed training reliably beats more than one. Sure it happens, but anyone that tells you X style will make you reliably beat more than one person at a time is selling snake oil.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Have you ever tried to use nunchaku ? Not as easy as you seem to think. Chances are, if they are untrained with the nunchaku, they are going to lose that nunchaku.

Yes, I have nunchaku. I am a karateka.

It's not hard to simply grab one end and swing the other end at someone else's head, as if it were a steel chain. In my early teens, I knew a kid who served a bid in juvie for doing just that, and it was to a bigger kid. Again, the average person is unable and unwilling to walk into a weapon being swung around to disarm the person wielding it. Whether the person with the weapon is trained or not, most people aren't going to risk getting hit with it.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Well. There is a reason weapons have always been a thing in warfare. Never has an army of fisticuffers vanquished anyone.

One person trained with a sword is worth 5 unarmed men.

And no amount of unarmed training reliably beats more than one. Sure it happens, but anyone that tells you X style will make you reliably beat more than one person at a time is selling snake oil.

Yes, and with weapons of warfare there is typically training. I cannot speak to the quality of that training or the motivation of the soldiers but the quality of training with the weapons to be used is correlated to the ability of soldiers to win battles.

My comment was in reference to a post JowGaWolf made about the use of certain weapons by untrained people. Sure they can have some success with it but against an opponent who is unarmed by trained to fight, I firmly believe the best choice would have been for them to run rather than use a weapon like a 3 sectional staff just because if happened to be near by.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yes, I have nunchaku. I am a karateka.

It's not hard to simply grab one end and swing the other end at someone else's head, as if it were a steel chain. In my early teens, I knew a kid who served a bid in juvie for doing just that, and it was to a bigger kid. Again, the average person is unable and unwilling to walk into a weapon being swung around to disarm the person wielding it. Whether the person with the weapon is trained or not, most people aren't going to risk getting hit with it.

Ok so you are saying it is easy to handle nunchaku without training and you wouldn't get disarmed if you are against a trained fighter who is unarmed. Ok gotcha.

 

[Steve]

Can you name these weapons systems? How about 10, since you said "a lot".

Kind of like a guy who hacks at sugar cane plants 10 hours a days for years & years, with his machete on a plantation. Even if he doesn't train it for combat nor do MA's, nor ever sparred anyone; I still wouldn't want to mess with him. He's going to be really agile, fast, precise, strong, high stamina, etc. b/c all of his muscles, muscle memory, etc. are bulked up for this exact task.

Which guy is this? Can you name this guy? How about just any guy like this, since... you know... you're so specific.

 

[Urban Trekker]

What I'm saying here should be common sense, but let me illustrate it for you: when you hear of a stabbing on the local evening news, do you believe that the person who did the stabbing was trained in knives more often than not? Along with that, is there normally any mention of the person who did the stabbing injuring themselves with the knife? And what percentage of the time would you say these knife wielders get disarmed?

 

[jayoliver00]

Are you asking if I would "Rather" fight someone untrained with a baseball bat than someone untrained without a baseball bat ? I would rather not have to fight untrained people at all. If I was put in a position to fight someone who is untrained with a baseball bat, they are going to lose that bat.

I get that, but the point still stands that the untrained person with a bat, have a better chance vs. you (then him w/o at bat). If you're still going to beat his butt H2H anyways, then why wouldn't it give him a better chance with a bat; that's basically just a club.

Have you ever tried to use nunchaku ? Not as easy as you seem to think. Chances are, if they are untrained with the nunchaku, they are going to lose that nunchaku.

I can still remember when I bought my first set of chuks. I was like 12 and the shop made me call home for parent's permission. No training, just watching Bruce Lee & Bruce Li movies. It was pretty easy to swing it with control as an attack & then control the stop or bounce back. It was only when I tried the movie tricks that I hit myself on that funny bone at the elbow more than a few times. Only a few times in the head as the 1st time causes you to be very cautious afterward. Not that big of a deal.

Now if an untrained person had a knife, that's a lot better for them.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Ok so you are saying it is easy to handle nunchaku without training and you wouldn't get disarmed if you are against a trained fighter who is unarmed. Ok gotcha.

If by "handle," you mean in the way that they're supposed to be handled, that's not what I'm talking about. And unless you have been specifically trained in how to disarm people then, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'll even say that IF you have specific training on how to disarm people, fleeing is still the better option if possible.

 

[jayoliver00]

Which guy is this? Can you name this guy? How about just any guy like this, since... you know... you're so specific.

His name is Rodrigo De La Santa Maria He's 25, single daddy, likes long walks along the beach and all the Rocky movies except Rocky V, which is a load of poop.

 

[Urban Trekker]

It was only when I tried the movie tricks that I hit myself on that funny bone at the elbow more than a few times. Only a few times in the head as the 1st time causes you to be very cautious afterward. Not that big of a deal.

Exactly. An attacker who is armed with them is not going to be doing "tricks" when he's focused on taking you out.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Some of you are clearly making a lot of unwarranted and unsupportable assumptions and generalizations.

@jayoliver00 your "disagree" would have some actual value if you provided any reason to think your assumptions and generalizations have any basis in actual fact.

 

[jayoliver00]

@jayoliver00 your "disagree" would have some actual value if you provided any reason to think your assumptions and generalizations have any basis in actual fact.

You didn't give any of the above with your disagreement to my post neither.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Please understand something. Melee and cutting weapons are not hi-tech equipment. Any random hard or sharp object can be used as a weapon.

As a matter of fact, humans have specifically evolved to use weapons. Species of humans, long before the existence of homo sapiens, have been using weapons. We would not be here if they didn't.

That being said, someone trained with weapons is going to be better off than someone who is not; but nonetheless, using weapons is in our DNA and is an instinct that we're born with. When a bigger kid came after you on the playground, no one had to tell you that picking up and swinging a stick would knock him out. You already knew that by instinct.