Aikido.. The reality?

[Shatteredzen]

You do know there is a difference between someone attempting to rape someone and someone attempting to beat someone up right? It's a different situation with different potential consequences. The situation I found myself in (where a mentally challenged individual tried to smash my brains in with a hammer) was different than both of those situations.

And yes, if you're in the process of someone trying to rape you, beat you up, or kill you, those are all present tense while you are in those situations.

If we are submitting anecdotes and honoring them for you, we are most certainly doing it for Aikido. Somehow all of my experience doesn't count but you get to roll yours out afterwords and we are supposed to honor it.

 

[Shatteredzen]

so your just making up your own definitions then, that a good way to always be correct

in how many multiples can the original technque you posted be used, it appears to have only one situation where it would be applicable,

that d3fintion also doesnt seem to require it to ever work, just be used, or have you invented new definitions for work and use as well

He's been doing this kind of intellectual dishonesty the entire discussion, I linked something like 7 clips of various Aikido moves being used in a real world setting, yet two UFC clips and two kids fighting over pokemon cards and somehow his point is proved and there's still no visible proof that Aikido does anything.

 

[jobo]

You do know there is a difference between someone attempting to rape someone and someone attempting to beat someone up right? It's a different situation with different potential consequences. The situation I found myself in (where a mentally challenged individual tried to smash my brains in with a hammer) was different than both of those situations.

And yes, if you're in the process of someone trying to rape you, beat you up, or kill you, those are all present tense while you are in those situations.

it's a different set of circumstances, jeez even fox news know the differance,

the situation where you are at the moment you wish to deploy that technque are the same, give or take. there motivation is irelivant to that and a circumstance

that like saying it's a difference situation if they ate going to punch your lights out as they hate you or want to rob you, it makes no differance, your lay on your back with them on top, that is THE situation you are in

 

[Hanzou]

it's a different set of circumstances, jeez even fox news know the differance,

Circumstance and situation are synonyms.

 

[Hanzou]

If we are submitting anecdotes and honoring them for you, we are most certainly doing it for Aikido. Somehow all of my experience doesn't count but you get to roll yours out afterwords and we are supposed to honor it.

You can remove me from the anecdote if you wish. Replace what happened to me with another person on their back with someone trying to kill them with a weapon, it's still a different situation from fighting off a sexual assault or fighting an unarmed idiot in a bar.

Anyway, we're veering off topic. The point is that Omoplata is an effective technique for a variety of situations.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Rokas asked WC, AIkido and KM people for footages of succesfull application of WC, Aikido and KM in free fight. Only chunners sent right responses (WC adepts using succesfully WC techniques and principles in fight).
From Aikido side Dan The Wolfmand send angry response that he used aikido techniques in many fights - but he is long time catch wrestler, MMA practicioner ( and other grapplings arts adept) so he know the fundamentals of fighting wery well what allows him to use aikido in fight.
Dear Shatteredzen - one picture is worth more than thousand words. Just do the same - post a video of fighting aikidokas. If BJJist, wrestlers, judokas, mmaists can apply aikido in fight why aikidokas cant? (except of some Tomiki guys).

BTW Rokas did not promote himself to aikido black belt. Somebody higher ranked in aikido community recognized him as skilled enough to be BB. It is not Rokas problem, it is rather system problem in aikido..

Here's the problem, I didn't learn Aikido by itself, I didn't stop and just learn Aikido, I learned Aikido alongside Judo and BJJ. Maybe that's what it takes for it to be effective? But I can't unpack my toolbox and remove everything that isn't Aikido to go get in a fight for you so that you have a video. Somehow we can have a discussion here where everyone excepts BJJ requiring at least some form of striking to work just fine yet the same courtesy is not extended to Aikido. Does Aikido have problems? Sure, but that doesn't mean there's no value to the system. If I go spar with someone to get you your footage, for the purpose of argument, you or someone else will immediately latch onto anything I do thats not one hundred percent me doing uke/nage in a hakama and start screeching "that's not Aikido". So we have a circular argument and instead of saying "MMA is better" its now "Aikido is useless".

I don't have a problem agreeing that MMA is better, its the disrespect of claiming that Aikido is useless and the fact that the people saying it are talking through the sides of their mouth from quite frankly, a position of inexperience and ignorance. Simply training BJJ or MMA is not going to make you better or even able to fight, its got a better chance of producing good results, but schools and systems do not produce 1+1=2, ever. For every martial arts class in the world, only a handful, if any people are going to end up able to apply it against someone who is trained and competent.

 

[jobo]

Circumstance and situation are synonyms.

you need to read the instruction 9n that book, synonyms are not interchangeable words with the same defintion and usage, well not unless your making the definitions up

 

[Shatteredzen]

Better is a measurable term. More facilities. More training opportunities it has produced more successful martial artists it has trainers with better credentials it is bigger.

Real measurable objective differences.

Lol, you picked the most touristy muay thai school I have ever seen. I will agree it is shiny and it looks nice, but WOW, this cracks me up. I learned Muay Thai in a dirt parking lot and a collection of tin sheds out in the jungle, seeing this bougie crap makes me giggle. You realize that school is made for tourists to come and buy shwag and do classes hungover a few times before they go home right? You understand that's absolutely not a muay thai school teaching and preparing muay thai fighters?

 

[Hanzou]

you need to read the instruction 9n that book, synonyms are not interchangeable words with the same defintion and usage, well not unless your making the definitions up

syn·o·nym
/ˈsinəˌnim/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.
   

 

[Shatteredzen]

If someone can pull off the Omoplata on their back when a sweaty killer is punching them in the face, then yes I view it as a legitimate technique. Why? Because that means that if I'm on my back and a sweaty killer is punching me in the face, if I do the technique right, I can also potentially pull off the technique and snap their shoulder.

I can guarantee I could put you on your back with some Aikido, this is not the same as putting a professional, competent fighter on their back with Aikido.

You can remove me from the anecdote if you wish. Replace what happened to me with another person on their back with someone trying to kill them with a weapon, it's still a different situation from fighting off a sexual assault or fighting an unarmed idiot in a bar.

Anyway, we're veering off topic. The point is that Omoplata is an effective technique for a variety of situations.

We really aren't, any technique is only as viable as the individual. You keep doing the math that since you see a thing on tv or youtube, that you can replicate that thing under the same circumstances and any technique without a corresponding video is not viable and would lose to your television martial arts belt.

 

[Shatteredzen]

You do know there is a difference between someone attempting to rape someone and someone attempting to beat someone up right? It's a different situation with different potential consequences. The situation I found myself in (where a mentally challenged individual tried to smash my brains in with a hammer) was different than both of those situations.

And yes, if you're in the process of someone trying to rape you, beat you up, or kill you, those are all present tense while you are in those situations.

Oh man, all these juicy forbidden anecdotes

 

[Hanzou]

I can guarantee I could put you on your back with some Aikido

Here you go again challenging other people's skill level, then you cry foul when people ask you to prove that you're as good as you say you are.

We really aren't, any technique is only as viable as the individual.

That is demonstrably false. A bad technique will not work regardless of who attempts to perform it.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Here you go again challenging other people's skill level, then you cry foul when people ask you to prove that you're as good as you say you are.

That is demonstrably false. A bad technique will not work regardless of who attempts to perform it.

Not accepting an open challenge to the entire BJJ community on film and poking fun at you for not being willing to do the same thing with any random Aikido practitioners are not synonymous.

Just because you can link a UFC clip of someone doing it does not mean I believe that you could do it. You ask for intellectual trust from the reader without extending the same to anyone else. You also strangely equate what you see on youtube to what is common or possible to the average person.

 

[Hanzou]

Not accepting an open challenge to the entire BJJ community on film and poking fun at you for not being willing to do the same thing with any random Aikido practitioners are not synonymous.

I'm curious where and when did I say I could dominate any random Aikido practitioner....

Just because you can link a UFC clip of someone doing it does not mean I believe that you could do it. You ask for intellectual trust from the reader without extending the same to anyone else. You also strangely equate what you see on youtube to what is common or possible to the average person.

I'm also curious what any of this discussion has to do with me and my individual skill set. We're talking about in general. You seem to be taking this conversation personally.

 

[Shatteredzen]

I'm curious where and when did I say I could dominate any random Aikido practitioner....



I'm also curious what any of this discussion has to do with me and my individual skill set. We're talking about in general. You seem to be taking this conversation personally.

Because, you are arguing in absolutes and refusing to honor personal anecdotes while arguing with personal anecdotes, with false arguments, based on those absolutes. I am merely attempting to get you to concede that none of this is absolute, yet you sit here claiming that because you can link a UFC clip of it, you know what you are talking about and are correct. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[Shatteredzen]

I'm curious where and when did I say I could dominate any random Aikido practitioner....



I'm also curious what any of this discussion has to do with me and my individual skill set. We're talking about in general. You seem to be taking this conversation personally.

Also, you've been saying you could dominate Aikido this whole time, you've consistently said that it doesn't work, I'm still waiting on your video to prove that since that's the intellectual standard here.

 

[jobo]

syn·o·nym
/ˈsinəˌnim/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

it looks like we can add synonymous to the words you dont understand

 

[Hanzou]

Because, you are arguing in absolutes and refusing to honor personal anecdotes while arguing with personal anecdotes, with false arguments, based on those absolutes. I am merely attempting to get you to concede that none of this is absolute, yet you sit here claiming that because you can link a UFC clip of it, you know what you are talking about and are correct. Is it that hard to understand?

What personal anecdotes am I arguing with? Are you saying I'm the only person in the world who was attacked with a blunt weapon while lying on their back?

As for the clips I posted, you missed the point entirely. I linked the technique being taught, the technique being used in competition, and the technique being used in a street fight situation. The techniques were largely unchanged from point to point to point. That demonstrates the validity of the techniques in multiple environments. Bringing it back to an earlier point, that gives Omoplata and the Guillotine a foundation to base the successful application of the technique upon. You can expand those examples to most techniques in Bjj and MMA. We simply cannot do the same for Aikido.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's the problem with Aikido? Is it a martial art designed for fighting or not? If not, then it should be advertised as such along the lines of Yoga or Tai Chi.

I agree with this. I have no problem with Tai Chi for health or Tai Chi for fighting. I don't have any dislike for any martial arts that sheds the combat applications and turns into a healthy exercise. As a system it just needs to be honest about that. Tai Chi for health is very honest about as you see seniors take such classes to help improve and maintain their mobility. Some take it for stress. But it's honest about that aspect.

No one is going to take a Tai Chi for health class and assume that they can now fight. Maybe Aikido for Health is where the system is heading. If they are going to be functional then they will need to clean up a lot that the issues that the "Zen" crowd has put into Aikido.

 

[Hanzou]

I agree with this. I have no problem with Tai Chi for health or Tai Chi for fighting. I don't have any dislike for any martial arts that sheds the combat applications and turns into a healthy exercise. As a system it just needs to be honest about that. Tai Chi for health is very honest about as you see seniors take such classes to help improve and maintain their mobility. Some take it for stress. But it's honest about that aspect.

No one is going to take a Tai Chi for health class and assume that they can now fight. Maybe Aikido for Health is where the system is heading. If they are going to be functional then they will need to clean up a lot that the issues that the "Zen" crowd has put into Aikido.

Along those lines, what are you thoughts on the Aikido school snippets I posted in post #799?