Aikido.. The reality?

[Gerry Seymour]

See, people say stuff like this, but here are Aikido schools in Atlanta deliberately advertising itself as a fighting art (I chose Atlanta because I'm currently eating a peach);

Are you in the South, Hanzou? Have you seen the giant peach on I-85 in South Carolina?

Sorry...ADHD thread swerve.

 

[Hanzou]

Are you in the South, Hanzou? Have you seen the giant peach on I-85 in South Carolina?

Sorry...ADHD thread swerve.

I grew up in the south (Alabama). I'm currently living out of a suitcase due to work.

And yes I've seen them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I grew up in the south (Alabama). I'm currently living out of a suitcase due to work.

And yes I've seen them.

Also known as the giant butt in the sky. Bit of trivia: the model was actually a nectarine, because they last longer. So the state with the most peach production advertises it with a water tower that looks like a nectarine.

 

[jobo]

If someone can pull off the Omoplata on their back when a sweaty killer is punching them in the face, then yes I view it as a legitimate technique. Why? Because that means that if I'm on my back and a sweaty killer is punching me in the face, if I do the technique right, I can also potentially pull off the technique and snap their shoulder.

that doesnt appear to be a defintion of legitamate, more some fanciful notion you've invented, it rather bizarrely seems to hinge on the attacker being both sweaty and a killer though you have identified the doing it correctly problem, so kudos for that

do you have a working defintion of legitamate you are prepared to share so we can further the discusion ? on if it is indeed " legitimate "

 

[Hanzou]

that doesnt appear to be a defintion of legitamate, more some fanciful notion you've invented, it rather bizarrely seems to hinge on the attacker being both sweaty and a killer though you have identified the doing it correctly problem, so kudos for that

do you have a working defintion of legitamate you are prepared to share so we can further the discusion ? on if it is indeed " legitimate "

In terms of martial arts techniques, legitimate would be techniques that can be applied in multiple situations under the threat of violence and stress. The reason MMA potentially works as a demonstrator in this case is because you have two individuals who are both trying to win at all costs. You have the additional layer of both individuals being elite athletes and martial artists.

The reason Aikido gets questioned is because we simply don't see their techniques work as advertised in such situations, whereas the Omoplata worked in two violent, fluid situations almost exactly as how it was demonstrated in the first video. That gives us evidence that Omoplata could also be applied in a similar fashion and wield a similar result.

 

[Hanzou]

Here's another one; The Guillotine choke (standing);

The technique;

The technique used in MMA (multiple times);

Technique used in street fight (arm in variation);

 

[jobo]

In terms of martial arts techniques, legitimate would be techniques that can be applied in multiple situations under the threat of violence and stress. The reason MMA potentially works as a demonstrator in this case is because you have two individuals who are both trying to win at all costs. You have the additional layer of both individuals being elite athletes and martial artists.

The reason Aikido gets questioned is because we simply don't see their techniques work as advertised in such situations, whereas the Omoplata worked in two violent, fluid situations almost exactly as how it was demonstrated in the first video. That gives us evidence that Omoplata could also be applied in a similar fashion and wield a similar result.

so your just making up your own definitions then, that a good way to always be correct

in how many multiples can the original technque you posted be used, it appears to have only one situation where it would be applicable,

that d3fintion also doesnt seem to require it to ever work, just be used, or have you invented new definitions for work and use as well

 

[Hanzou]

so your just making up your own definitions then, that a good way to always be correct

in how many multiples can the original technque you posted be used, it appears to have only one situation where it would be applicable,

You're seriously arguing in how many situations you can wind up defending from your back? I can think of at least 5 situations where that can happen (you getting pushed down, you losing a standing clinch fight, you getting tackled from behind, you being a woman in a rape situation, you losing your balance while striking etc.), and getting the person from a top position into an inferior position WHILE you have a shoulder lock in place would be highly advantageous.

 

[jobo]

You're seriously arguing in how many situations you can wind up defending from your back? I can think of at least 5 situations where that can happen (you getting pushed down, you losing a standing clinch fight, you getting tackled from behind, you being a woman in a rape situation, you losing your balance while striking etc.), and getting the person from a top position into an inferior position WHILE you have a shoulder lock in place would be highly advantageous.

no lying on your back whilst being attack is one situation, the circumstances which lead to that situation dont multiply that,

 

[Hanzou]

no lying on your back whilst being attack is one situation, the circumstances which lead to that situation dont multiply that,

Yeah, no it isn't. A woman dealing with an attempted rape is a completely different situation than a guy on top of you trying to turn your face into hamburger. The Omoplata can be used in both scenarios.

Bonus; Another Omoplata submission in MMA;

 

[Flying Crane]

No, not really. At least that's not at all how I took it.

Here's the first video in which he challenges certain arts, including Wing Chun, to send him videos of their art being applied against a non-compliant partner in a free sparring context.

Next, after receiving a huge response, he posted this video with a pretty positive reaction and retracted his previous statements as being over generalized and mistaken. He did continue to assert that those schools that do not spar and train against resistance cannot know that their techniques will work. They remain untested. here is the second clip (the same one I posted previously:

While I do not entirely agree with Rokas, I believe he makes good points and is sincere. I also don't think he comes of as a douche ....like that other guy.

Ok, I watched the two videos and I want my 13 minutes back.

This guy is an intellectual lightweight. And a douche. He has tried to make himself the martial arts police who determines how people need to train, and apparently need to justify what they do, to him. F him. I honestly don’t understand why people give him any power, by even responding to him. Nobody needs to prove anything to him. He is nobody. If he doesn’t understand a particular system, nobody has an obligation to explain it to him. If he doesn’t know how different schools or systems train, nobody needs to share it with him.

seriously, I don’t get why anyone responds to this garbage.

 

[dunc]

At 1:20

Hi I get it for things like single legs, but curious in a wrist lock / SD scenario

I'd guess it's a form of tenkan?

Hi Do you have a video of the tenkan foot work being used with a wrist lock?

 

[Dirty Dog]

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[jobo]

Yeah, no it isn't. A woman dealing with an attempted rape is a completely different situation than a guy on top of you trying to turn your face into hamburger. The Omoplata can be used in both scenarios.

Bonus; Another Omoplata submission in MMA;

you do know there is a fundamental difference between situation and circumstance, dont you, ?

the situation is 3exactly the same, your lay on you back with someone on top of you, the circumstances of how and why that came to pass and indeed what is likely to happen next, dont change 5he situation your in at that moment

I take it you also havent realised that there is no past or future tence for situation, unless you alter the sentance structure to make it so, which you didnt, it therefore can only apply to what's happening now not what has or is likely to happen,

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

At 1:20

In Chinese wrestling, this is called "stealing step". If you move the other foot forward first, you then spin (you can make much large circle this way), that's called "wheeling step". In CMA, it's also called "lead your opponent into the emptiness".

Here is an example for the "wheeling step". Please notice that he steps in his left foot first (to make a large circle). It's a good strategy to change from a linear attack into a circular attack.

 

[Hanzou]

you do know there is a fundamental difference between situation and circumstance, dont you, ?

the situation is 3exactly the same, your lay on you back with someone on top of you, the circumstances of how and why that came to pass and indeed what is likely to happen next, dont change 5he situation your in at that moment

I take it you also havent realised that there is no past or future tence for situation, unless you alter the sentance structure to make it so, which you didnt, it therefore can only apply to what's happening now not what has or is likely to happen,

You do know there is a difference between someone attempting to rape someone and someone attempting to beat someone up right? It's a different situation with different potential consequences. The situation I found myself in (where a mentally challenged individual tried to smash my brains in with a hammer) was different than both of those situations.

And yes, if you're in the process of someone trying to rape you, beat you up, or kill you, those are all present tense while you are in those situations.

 

[Shatteredzen]

At 1:20

This is it exactly, you can vary the size of the "C" to gain more or less momentum and it is useful to set yourself up so that you don't go with someone during a throw by not opening your stance enough.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is it exactly, you can vary the size of the "C" to gain more or less momentum and it is useful to set yourself up so that you don't go with someone during a throw by not opening your stance enough.

Many throws can be applied either linear or circular. The difference is that spin back footwork ("C", or "stealing step").

 

[Shatteredzen]

Hi I get it for things like single legs, but curious in a wrist lock / SD scenario


Hi Do you have a video of the tenkan foot work being used with a wrist lock?

Dunc, for example, you are trying to counter a grab to your gi from the front, you choose to use your right hand to reach over your opponents arms and to grab the opponents right hand for a reverse wristlock. Once you strike and grab or once you've got both hands on the other guys right hand you would shoot your right leg out behind yourself and "trace the C" as you pull the wrist in close to you for leverage, you would start the throw as you started tracing the C and end as you finished, this would put you in a horse stance at the end, the width being determined by how wide you went with your step.

 

[Shatteredzen]

In Chinese wrestling, this is called "stealing step". If you move the other foot forward first, you then spin (you can make much large circle this way), that's called "wheeling step". In CMA, it's also called "lead your opponent into the emptiness".

Here is an example for the "wheeling step". Please notice that he steps in his left foot first (to make a large circle). It's a good strategy to change from a linear attack into a circular attack.

Nice! I was taught the same thing as part of that "tracing the C" thing, we called this "tracing inwards", so the same move here, would be to "trace in, then trace out"