Aikido.. The reality?

[Hanzou]

Ken Shamrock, the guy who got retired by a knee to the face when he lunged for a double knee right (I feel like we got a theme here)? Also, I'm not saying the UFC is total BS, just weighted heavily in favor of BJJ. Does that mean the Gracies aren't totally awesome? No. Does that mean BJJ doesn't work? No. Is BJJ touted as being more holistic and applicable than it is? Yes! The main difference between Aikido and BJJ is brand image, there's in all fairness, just as many if not more MMA/BJJ schools and fighters pedaling garbage as there are Aikido schools/practitioners doing the same, but the BJJ has that UFC smell because of many, many years of excellent marketing on the part of the Gracies.

First and foremost, my point was that video you posted was silly because it's two bitter karatekas outright lying about the first UFC and the UFCs that followed. The Gracies never had an issue having wrestlers participate in UFC, which is why Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn were in the first UFCs. If you think Ken didn't measure up, what about Dan Severn?

Also I'm curious as to where anyone is saying that Bjj is more holistic and applicable than it is. What are you talking about, and where are you getting this from? At most, BJJ is simply viewed as an effective martial art, and it has been repeatedly proven over the course of the last 30 years. No one is saying it's perfect. No one is saying you can know BJJ and take down an army with a pocket knife. However if someone wants to learn a MA where they can defend themselves, I'm pointing them in the direction of the nearest BJJ gym everytime.

 

[Hanzou]

Do you honestly think the only thing in Aikido is wristlocks? I'm pointing to the DLT since its being held up here as some shining sword for the purposes of argument.

Wrist locks are their claim to fame, and the basis of the system.

The MA journey guy is a youtuber who was attempting to use bad Aikido in a video, how did we go from critiquing a video to the Count Dante esque dojo wars suggestion? So because I say the MA journey guy is bad now I'm committed to issuing an open challenge to the practitioners of BJJ or my argument is invalid? Going by that logic, when is your next UFC fight Hanzou?

Where am I saying that a public martial artist is doing my martial art badly? Where am I saying that a wrestling/UFC staple technique (DLT) is BS?

The MA Journey guy is one of the few Aikidoka who were willing to put their art to the test on the biggest stages on the planet. He gets respect for that alone. If you think you can do better, what's stopping you? Again, there's millions of dollars waiting for you if you're as good as you say you are.

 

[Shatteredzen]

First and foremost, my point was that video you posted was silly because it's two bitter karatekas outright lying about the first UFC and the UFCs that followed. The Gracies never had an issue having wrestlers participate in UFC, which is why Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn were in the first UFCs. If you think Ken didn't measure up, what about Dan Severn?

Also I'm curious as to where anyone is saying that Bjj is more holistic and applicable than it is. What are you talking about, and where are you getting this from? At most, BJJ is simply viewed as an effective martial art, and it has been repeatedly proven over the course of the last 30 years. No one is saying it's perfect. No one is saying you can know BJJ and take down an army with a pocket knife. However if someone wants to learn a MA where they can defend themselves, I'm pointing them in the direction of the nearest BJJ gym everytime.

I don't know how much lying they are doing, but they bring up some great points that are true about both the first few UFC's as well as the Gracie challenge. Does that mean the Gracies suck or BJJ doesn't work? No. We all know and understand that the Gracies and BJJ revolutionized martial arts. What I see is this pretty regular triangle of "your style sucks ***" from BJJ students, then it turns into "hey look at the UFC" whenever you try to have a discussion and then we get to "well if you can't beat up all the Gracies at once in a Kumite then your full of crap", you yourself went through that same cycle in about three posts.

 

[Hanzou]

I don't know how much lying they are doing, but they bring up some great points that are true about both the first few UFC's as well as the Gracie challenge.

Oh? What "great points" did they bring up?

 

[Shatteredzen]

Wrist locks are their claim to fame, and the basis of the system.




Where am I saying that a public martial artist is doing my martial art badly? Where am I saying that a wrestling staple is BS?

The MA Journey guy is one of the few Aikidoka who were willing to put their art to the test on the biggest stages on the planet. He gets respect for that alone. If you think you can do better, what's stopping you? Again, there's millions of dollars waiting for you if you're as good as you say you are.

"wrist locks are the claim to fame and the basis of the system" - no, there are wristlocks, yes, there are more techniques in Aikido than the three basic principles and their associated techniques. Even if we wanted to go soley off the "six principles" your wrist lock Aikido theory would still be wrong by half.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Oh? What "great points" did they bring up?

Hang on, I'd prefer you explain your Kumite challenge before I waste more time covering points you will get upset and ignore in favor of challenging me to blood duel the BJJ community.

 

[Hanzou]

"wrist locks are the claim to fame and the basis of the system" - no, there are wristlocks, yes, there are more techniques in Aikido than the three basic principles and their associated techniques. Even if we wanted to go soley off the "six principles" your wrist lock Aikido theory would still be wrong by half.

I never said that wrist locks were the ONLY techniques in the system. I said that they're the claim to fame and the basis of the system, since the basics revolve around wrist control.

 

[Martial D]

I don't know how much lying they are doing, but they bring up some great points that are true about both the first few UFC's as well as the Gracie challenge. Does that mean the Gracies suck or BJJ doesn't work? No. We all know and understand that the Gracies and BJJ revolutionized martial arts. What I see is this pretty regular triangle of "your style sucks ***" from BJJ students, then it turns into "hey look at the UFC" whenever you try to have a discussion and then we get to "well if you can't beat up all the Gracies at once in a Kumite then your full of crap", you yourself went through that same cycle in about three posts.

I will ask you again; why is aikido not used in a competitive format? You seem to truely believe in its eficy. Surely this must have crossed your mind?

Do you believe you know something the entire MMA community doesn't?

What is it about MMA that has been nullifying the usefulness of aikido for all of these years?

Surely you don't believe there is some conspiracy within jui jitsu to keep all the aikidokas from showing their skills?

 

[Shatteredzen]

I never said that wrist locks were the ONLY techniques in the system. I said that they're the claim to fame and the basis of the system, since the basics revolve around wrist control.

Once again, this is not true, its not even partially true. Three of the six basic principles demonstrate wrist control, so, even going by this argument, the first six techniques taught to you would have three techniques involving the wrist. Wrist locks and wrist control are not the whole, the claim to fame or even half of the system, thats like me trying to equate BJJ only to the double leg takedown (as fun as it is to argue about that with you). You are making a false argument.

 

[Hanzou]

Hang on, I'd prefer you explain your Kumite challenge before I waste more time covering points you will get upset and ignore in favor of challenging me to blood duel the BJJ community.

What is there to explain? You're saying that the MA Journey dude is misrepresenting your system, and that a staple of grappling is BS. I'm telling you to stop wasting your time arguing with us and do what the MA Journey guy did; Contact your local MMA or BJJ gym and say you're interested in a fight, sign up for a MMA tournament, enter a local competition, or go on Youtube and issue a challenge. Set the rules, and record what happens.

Like I said, if you're successful you'll be a very wealthy man, because the MA community is hungering for a shift in the status quo. An Aikidoka smashing some burly MMA guys on film would change the landscape of martial arts just like the UFC did back in '93.

Which makes one wonder why a single Aikidoka has never stepped up to the plate to do exactly that.....

 

[Shatteredzen]

I will ask you again; why is aikido not used in a competitive format? You seem to truely believe in its eficy. Surely this must have crossed your mind?

Do you believe you know something the entire MMA community doesn't?

What is it about MMA that has been nullifying the usefulness of aikido for all of these years?

Surely you don't believe there is some conspiracy within jui jitsu to keep all the aikidokas from showing their skills?

Here we are again with absolutes. I don't know what "MMA community" your talking about, I've given you specifics as to why Aikido does not translate into MMA, we aren't arguing that it does, or maybe, you are, but I'm not. Stay on track, I'm arguing that Aikido works, as advertised, as an effective method for self defense in day to day life and I'm saying that it also complements other systems. Go back and read every single one of my posts and you will see, very clearly, that's the only two claims I'm making. You are turning this into an all or nothing contest between Aikido and MMA because your getting emotional, much like Hanzou is.

 

[Hanzou]

Here we are again with absolutes. I don't know what "MMA community" your talking about, I've given you specifics as to why Aikido does not translate into MMA, we aren't arguing that it does, or maybe, you are, but I'm not. Stay on track, I'm arguing that Aikido works, as advertised, as an effective method for self defense in day to day life and I'm saying that it also complements other systems. Go back and read every single one of my posts and you will see, very clearly, that's the only two claims I'm making. You are turning this into an all or nothing contest between Aikido and MMA because your getting emotional, much like Hanzou is.

Yeah, I'm not getting emotional, I'm just pointing out that you're attacking a martial artist for putting his art and reputation on the line when you're not willing to do the same.

 

[Martial D]

Once again, this is not true, its not even partially true. Three of the six basic principles demonstrate wrist control, so, even going by this argument, the first six techniques taught to you would have three techniques involving the wrist. Wrist locks and wrist control are not the whole, the claim to fame or even half of the system, thats like me trying to equate BJJ only to the double leg takedown (as fun as it is to argue about that with you). You are making a false argument.

The double leg is actually a wrestling move.it is mostly taught by BJJ schools now because they tend to absorb what works, but your continued attempt to pin it to BJJ is sorta weird to me.

 

[Martial D]

Here we are again with absolutes. I don't know what "MMA community" your talking about, I've given you specifics as to why Aikido does not translate into MMA, we aren't arguing that it does, or maybe, you are, but I'm not. Stay on track, I'm arguing that Aikido works, as advertised, as an effective method for self defense in day to day life and I'm saying that it also complements other systems. Go back and read every single one of my posts and you will see, very clearly, that's the only two claims I'm making. You are turning this into an all or nothing contest between Aikido and MMA because your getting emotional, much like Hanzou is.

Well. I have read your posts. It seems to mostly boil down to your continued (incorrect) assertions that MMA fighters grease up and that wrist locks are illegal in MMA.

But you haven't addressed why (besides those two debunked assertions) why it works "as advertised" but fails utterly in a competitive format.

 

[Shatteredzen]

What is there to explain? You're saying that the MA Journey dude is misrepresenting your system, and that a staple of grappling is BS. I'm telling you to stop wasting your time arguing with us and do what the MA Journey guy did; Contact your local MMA or BJJ gym and say you're interested in a fight, sign up for a MMA tournament, enter a local competition, or go on Youtube and issue a challenge. Set the rules, and record what happens.

Like I said, if you're successful you'll be a very wealthy man, because the MA community is hungering for a shift in the status quo. An Aikidoka smashing some burly MMA guys on film would change the landscape of martial arts just like the UFC did back in '93.

Which makes one wonder why a single Aikidoka has never stepped up to the plate to do exactly that.....

Once again "fight everyone in the UFC or your argument is invalid". the MA Journey dude made a video to argue a point he knows is popular online and then attempted to (badly) apply a single wrist lock technique, poorly, so poorly, the BJJ guy corrects him.

Yet that means I've issued a challenge to the entire MMA community and its up to me to prove my martial art against all foes and shake up the MMA community or I'm wrong? Why? Because your upset on the internet and can't find a way out of your circular logic? I've been very clear about my claims, my experience and my opinions and I even warned you that you were falling into the same circular argument of "Aikido sucks" - "MMA and BJJ are the bestest" - "go fight in the Kumite" nonsense. Your attempting to use bad logic to quantify an and reframe the argument because you aren't happy staying on topic.

 

[Martial D]

Like say..take ANY alive style. Boxing..mt..kickboxing.. wrestling..BJJ..even karate

Take someone that knows exclusively only one of these things and I can point to where it was successful in competition.

Why not aikido?

 

[Hanzou]

Once again "fight everyone in the UFC or your argument is invalid".

Where did I say fight everyone in the UFC? Again, I simply said if you think the MA Journey dude is misrepresenting your martial art, (at least) do what he did here;

But we both know you're not going to do that, don't we?

Yet that means I've issued a challenge to the entire MMA community and its up to me to prove my martial art against all foes and shake up the MMA community or I'm wrong? Why?

Because you've repeatedly implied that the MA Journey dude is doing bad Aikido and you can do better.

 

[Shatteredzen]

The double leg is actually a wrestling move.it is mostly taught by BJJ schools now because they tend to absorb what works, but your continued attempt to pin it to BJJ is sorta weird to me.

If you cycle back, when it first came up in conversation I said it was the first move taught in high school wrestling. We are talking about double leg takedowns because you and the other "aikido sucks" guy brought it up.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Where did I say fight everyone in the UFC? Again, I simply said if you think the MA Journey dude is misrepresenting your martial art, (at least) do what he did here;

But we both know you're not going to do that, don't we?



Because you've repeatedly implied that the MA Journey dude is doing bad Aikido and you can do better.

If you have a youtube channel I'll critique that for you if you want. Yes, the MA Journey dude is doing bad Aikido, the BJJ guy had to show him the right way to do the wrist lock. He makes a whole video on the pretense that Aikido doesn't work because he cant land a wrist lock on the other guy, now I have to go fight everyone in the world and film how to land a wristlock against a BJJ fighter for you or I'm full of crap and grand standing and Aikido is bad? What a convenient argument to make other random internet guy.

How about since your trying to argue that I'm wrong and the whole martial art of Aikido is bad, you go film yourself beating up a couple Aikido practitioners and then come back here and post it for me? You could be famous! Do you see how stupid you sound or are you still missing it because your all spun up?

 

[Hanzou]

How about since your trying to argue that I'm wrong and the whole martial art of Aikido is bad, you go film yourself beating up a couple Aikido practitioners and then come back here and post it for me? You could be famous! Do you see how stupid you sound or are you still missing it because your all spun up?

Because I don't need to. The ones who have stepped up have already proved what I'd be proving, so that little bout would do nothing for me.

The fact that you don't understand that is hilarious, as is your attempt to deflect. However, it just goes to show what I said earlier; We both know you're not going to do what the MA Journey guy did. Don't worry, it's the typical 1995 behavior that you've exhibited during this entire thread.