Aikido against a boxer

[pdg]

Nah, they don't need to put on a BJJ gi (those things can get expensive). Just have them crouch down like they're going for a double-leg. That's good enough to simulate BJJ.

That certainly makes it easier - I can just jump on their head or shoulders.

Excellent

 

[Martial D]

This thread has gone off on a few tangents since it was originally posted 12 years ago and I don't think the OP has been back in a while. Still, I thought I'd address the original question with this clip, which is probably one of the best suggestions I've seen for applying Aikido to a boxing opponent.

See, this guy has an understanding of boxing, and makes his aikido work off of that. Good example.

 

[Ryback]

You are right! I don't know how an Aikido guy may handle that situation. That's why I ask. I did ask many Judo guys how would they handle that situation. Just by that situation, it can be a very interested discussion. Do you resist, yield, or ...? It's a perfect situation that "harmony" have to be destroyed.

- Do Aikido guys compete in Judo tournament (both are Japanese throwing art)?
- Do Judo guy ever challenge Aikido guy (or the other way around)?

I don't know. You tell me.

By the way, I did have a student who was a blown belt in Aikido. I have wrestled with him on the mat for many years. Also Armando Flores was my training partner when we were young. Armando and I both competed in the Karate tournament back in the 70th.

It is difficult to explain something technical verbally, watching that video I see hundreds of techniques in order to defend against such an attack...
I see anything from joint manipulations to projection techniques or even attemi waza.
This is a relatively easy attack for an aikidoka, there are other more challenging attacks, but this is the way you don't want to attack someone who is good in Aikido...
As for the rest of your post... Aikido has no competition, it is not a sport. And it's not a throwing martial art in the sense that Judo is,but that would be very difficult to explain here... You see, I said projection techniques instead of throwing techniques because that's what you do, you project... And has also immobilizations, attemi waza (strikes) Keri waza (kicks), armed techniques, unarmed techniques and every combination possible...
I don't know if I was any help my friend but as I said it is difficult for me to describe Aikido verbally...

 

[Ryback]

However



So not knowing many boxers who can counter those techniques appears to be equal to just simply not having worked with any boxers?


By the exact same logic, I don't know many BJJ practitioners who can counter a tkd kick.

Having never worked with any at all helps to reinforce that statement.

To put it another way, I could even say "I have no personal evidence to suggest that any BJJ guy could do anything about it if I decided to hit him"

Maybe I should get one of my tkd training partners to dress up all BJJ like and then I can come up with absolutely irrefutable evidence...

Do you know any boxing style that instead of training to defeat another boxer in the ring, people are training to counter traditional Martial arts techniques found in Aiki-jutsu, Aikido, ken-jutsu, Jo-do, Tai-Chi, Wing Chun...?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you know any boxing style that instead of training to defeat another boxer in the ring, people are training to counter traditional Martial arts techniques found in Aiki-jutsu, Aikido, ken-jutsu, Jo-do, Tai-Chi, Wing Chun...?

I don't. I also haven't met a boxer who says he's trained specifically to defeat those, without ever training with or against people who know those styles.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why is trying to guess their counter better? To me, that's not better than saying "If you do X, I counter with Y. If you do Y I counter with Z." Those are two different trained responses, but they chain together without having to guess that they'll do Y as a counter to X.

The difference is if

- you attack me first, the possibility of your attack can be a large number.
- I attack you first, your respond to my attack can be a much smaller number which is easier to handle.

For example, if you attack me, you can kick, knee, punch, elbow, shoot, ... If I sweep your leg, since you can't kick me at that particular moment, I don't have to worry about your kick, knee, shoot.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't think Aikido (as a system) makes that assumption. It assumes that gives B a connection he didn't have, which is an advantage. A also has that connection, and could use that same advantage. It sounds like you're making assumptions, John, rather than asking questions to get clarification.

Most of the Aikido clips show A grabs on B, B applies Aikido technique on A. Do you know any Aikido clip that A grabs on B, A then applies Aikido technique on B?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Every principle has times when it can't be applied.

I just ask question, "How to maintain harmony at that particular moment?" When you train your MA system, you have to deal with people from other MA systems. Your opponent may apply some strategy that you are not familiar with.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can, in some situations. If they want to push and pull back and forth, I just need to pick one to work with. I ignore the other for the most part. I don't need their cooperation to blend with their movement. Of course, if they are skilled at blending (other arts besides Aikido have it, though it looks different and often isn't called "blending"), they should be capable of counter-blending to make it more difficult.

It's no different from any other principle. To punch you need a target. If they are good at defending targets, it's harder to hit them. Same-same.

That clip is a perfect example that you should not play your opponent's game. Both resist and yield are not the solution. You will need to interrupt your opponent's game (break the harmony). How to interrupt your opponent's game is the key.

 

[now disabled]

Most of the Aikido clips show A grabs on B, B applies Aikido technique on A. Do you know any Aikido clip that A grabs on B, A then applies Aikido technique on B?

I just ask question, "How to maintain harmony at that particular moment?" When you train your MA system, you have to deal with people from other MA systems. Your opponent may apply some strategy that you are not familiar with.

I might be wrong but that is the test and the reason to cross train and expand the knowledge to further yourself in your own art

I might be wrong tho

 

[drop bear]

Do you know any boxing style that instead of training to defeat another boxer in the ring, people are training to counter traditional Martial arts techniques found in Aiki-jutsu, Aikido, ken-jutsu, Jo-do, Tai-Chi, Wing Chun...?

As well as.

You would be amazed how versatile punching a guy in the face really is.

 

[now disabled]

That clip is a perfect example that you should not play your opponent's game. Both resist and yield are not the solution. You will need to interrupt your opponent's game (break the harmony). How to interrupt your opponent's game is the key.

That is a concept in Aikido you are breaking their structure/balance/harmony thereby you are interrupting their game. The key is to do that and make it flow and be ready to adapt

 

[now disabled]

As well as.

You would be amazed how versatile punching a guy in the face really is.

Agreed but you'd also be amazed at how destroying a joint is, it works both ways

 

[drop bear]

Agreed but you'd also be amazed at how destroying a joint is, it works both ways

I do both.
Destroying a joint takes more time. And you can see people trying to do it.

You can't see punches at speed.

 

[now disabled]

assuming the person punching can do that and maybe he would see the joint lock etc coming maybe he wouldn't that all depends on how skilled the opponent is and how aware he is in a situation

Granted a trained boxer is and can punch properly

like in that vid posted if the person gets past and enters then will he see it coming I guess you will say yes and I will say maybe yes maybe no there are multiple factors that are in play so no one can say a def yes or a def no

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It is difficult to explain something technical verbally, ...

If someone asks me, "What will you do if I do ...?" If I have answer, I'll say, "I'll do ..."If I don't have answer, I will get my training partner, ask him to apply that strategy on me. I then can experience that myself and then find solution.

IMO, there is nothing in MA that can not be described by words. Of course the best solution is not to let that situation to happen. Just don't let your opponent to land his hand on you. The issue is if your opponent gets hold on you and start to run circle behind you, what should be your respond at that moment. He has a grip on you but you don't have any grip on him.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That is a concept in Aikido you are breaking their structure/balance/harmony thereby you are interrupting their game. The key is to do that and make it flow and be ready to adapt

Ushiro techniques then come into play ...again that is blending and flowing and being adaptable

Could you provide more detail Aikido solution here? Your opponent drags your leading arm and move to your blind side that your back hand can't reach him. What should you do at that moment by using Aikido principle?

This is a very interest scenario that I have discussed with many Judo guys before. But I have not had chance to discuss with Aikido guys yet.

 

[now disabled]

If someone asks me, "What will you do if I do ...?" If I have answer, I'll say, "I'll do ..."If I don't have answer, I will get my training partner, ask him to apply that strategy on me. I then can experience that myself and then find solution.

IMO, there is nothing in MA that can not be described by words. Of course the best solution is not to let that situation to happen. Just don't let your opponent to land his hand on you. The issue is if your opponent gets hold on you and start to run circle behind you, what should be your respond at that moment. He has a grip on you but you don't have any grip on him.

Ushiro techniques then come into play ...again that is blending and flowing and being adaptable

I agree that best form of anything is not let anyone get a hold in fact best way is not to get into any combat situations period but that I guess is a moot point here

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The difference is if

- you attack me first, the possibility of your attack can be a large number.
- I attack you first, your respond to my attack can be a much smaller number which is easier to handle.

For example, if you attack me, you can kick, knee, punch, elbow, shoot, ... If I sweep your leg, since you can't kick me at that particular moment, I don't have to worry about your kick, knee, shoot.

But now you're changing sides on it. My point was learning to execute x, then respond to X with Y and Y with Z is more flexible than learning to start from X and responde to a counter of Y to get to Z. The latter presumes a given counter.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Most of the Aikido clips show A grabs on B, B applies Aikido technique on A. Do you know any Aikido clip that A grabs on B, A then applies Aikido technique on B?

What you're seeing is them teaching to perform a given technique. Aikido techniques are normally taught only as responses, rather than initiations. But yes, I have seen some taught as initiations, too. I'm not aware of any clips that show this - it's my impression that it's rare in Aikido training, and maybe normally worked late in the curriculum, if at all.