My theory about the practicality of Aikido

[Aiki Lee]

I just found this in today's email from Stanley Pranin's Aikido Journal.

"Atemi

The Founder can be seen applying atemi or “preemptive strikes” right up until the end of his life. But today, atemi have fallen into disuse in aikido. I believe this is due to a misunderstanding of its purpose. Atemi is an action used to preempt uke’s aggressive intent through a distractionary manouever in the form of a strike. The use of atemi is not for the purpose of hitting or “softening up” uke prior to performing a technique. Its role is similar to that of the kiai in that it disrupts uke’s concentration.


Beyond “Sensen no Sen”

A traditional explanation of strategies in a Japanese martial arts context often involves a discussion of three levels of combat initiative: “go no sen,” “sen no sen,” and “sensen no sen.” These strategies are defined as follows: “Go no sen,” meaning “late attack” involves a defensive or counter movement in response to an attack; “sen no sen,” a defensive initiative launched simultaneously with the attack of the opponent; and “sensen no sen,” an initiative launched in anticipation of an attack where the opponent is fully committed to his attack and thus psychologically beyond the point of no return. The latter strategy is generally considered to be the highest level in the classical martial arts scenario.
http://store.aikidojournal.com/the-s...tanley-pranin/"

:asian:

Good quote. I should clairify my mentioning of deai and sen sen no sen earlier now that you psted this. In aiki ninjutsu we use all these concepts but name them differently in some cases. Sen no sen as described above is the Banzenkan's conception of deai, it has a defferent name so as not to confuse students between sen no sen and sen sen no sen. Sen sen no sen for us is exactly as described above. Go no sen is different for us however. While we understand the concept of go no sen as the response to the physical attack, we refer to go no sen as manipulation of of the opponent's sen sen no sen. For us, go no sen requires us to move to a position where we bait the attacker, he then makes the commitment to the attack and we move to a superior position after the attack is decided upon but before it is thrown. It gives one the feeling of fight a ghost in my opinion. You know there is something there so you attack it, but it doesn't connect. It leaves one feeling stupified.

Another way we illustrate the point is deai (or sen no sen) is like going to a party and getting there right on time. Sen sen no sen, is getting to the party early and they are still setting up decorations and are surprised to see you there. Go no sen (in the Banzenkan) is giving directions to the party but purposefully giving the wrong address, so the guy shows up on time (attacks when he realistically should), but goes to the wrong place (attacks a target that really doesn't exist anymore).

Hopefully I made some sense to anyone who cares to read my poorly worded explanations.

 

[TheArtofDave]

Happy I came across this thread. I'm considering diving head first into Aikido. It's an art I've always wanted to train in but didn't know if the area I was in offered it. Pleased to tell everybody that the Memphis area does in indeed offer training. And even though I might have to go a little out of my way it will be well worth it. I'm planning in either July or some time a couple of months after to go try out a class or two. I'm working on my own physical therapy with some strength and endurance training just so my body will be a little more fit when under taking a new area. Very excited for what the future holds.

 

[KenpoDave]

And, how much of that is about going to a new style with an empty cup? :asian:

All of it. There are two ways to empty a cup. Pour it out...or drink it.


Dave Hopper

 

[Cyriacus]

All of it. There are two ways to empty a cup. Pour it out...or drink it.


Dave Hopper

Or, someone else can set it on fire and evaporate it.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Or set it aside and get a new cup.

 

[WingChun]

It does have Punches and Kicks, dont know about knees and elbows, depends on the style.

 

[Shinjuku Kid]

good discussion point but wrong. Study go no sen. sen no sen. sen sen no sen. Aikido, contrary to popular and mistaken belief is not merely a go no sen art.
I used to think similarly to you ... then a friend gave me this book. Aikido in Japan and The Way Less Traveled. 300+ pages, 600+ footnotes.
I started out skeptical and ended up impressed. My thinking has changed. I read a chapter in the Epilogue. Wrestling with Aikido? amazing explanation of the art ....

great stuff about training in Japan ....

 

[ST1Doppelganger]

I'll start off by saying im an aikido noob that is studying aikido with about a month of aikido instruction under my belt.

I've studied other styles ranging from MMA to Tai Chi Chuan and will say aikido can be an effective art but might take a pure aikido practitioner some time (3 or more years, most likely 5-20) to get proficient at applying it in a self defense scenario.

I'm actually loving aikido since I love joint locks and throws and have found that aikido teaches some advanced joint lock throws and concepts that I can add to my prior styles strategies or techniques.

As for the statement of it not teaching any offensive movements I guess that depends on the individual martial artist or dojo to realize it or teach it.

For instance the aikido im learning has people striking, pushing or grabbing at me so I can apply the lock or throw.

The person that is doing the striking pushing or grabbing ofcourse does it with less intent so you can learn the drill then starts moving up the intent and power to near or at full speed and power.

The reason why I mention this is because technically they are teaching some basic offensive movements but I guess that is up to the individual practitioner to realize this and/or the dojo to teach the attacker to use intention while throwing the strikes grabs and pushes.

 

[Shinjuku Kid]

I dont need to be an Aikidoka to know that Aikido isnt hard to use offensively. If i always learn to use an elbow strike after blocking a punch, does this mean that im unable to hit someone with my elbow unless they try to punch me first?

Try breaking stuff and putting people into positions from which you could do all those things. You dont need to take classes for a year to kick someone in the head if and when it becomes a valid option.

well said. "atemi" (fist, back fist, elbow, knee, foot, head) is the EASY part of Aikido .... They teach it. But not every dojo is the same.
Amazing the many misconceptions and disinformation about Aikido.
I started studying recently and it's great - especially. of course FINDING a qualified teacher is vital.

 

[hussaf]

Our teacher was having us do defense against knee strikes in a clinch and I was running sparring sessions with aikido finishes last class. It all depends what you train for.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Our Tomiki Aikido club had a heavy focus on using atemi and there was a big interest in studying the connections with Daito-ryu. All of the instructors came with extensive experience in other martial arts. One of my favorites had spent time in the military and taught us a lot of simple and direct applications.

After relocating to a new area, I joined a traditional aikido club and found it very disappointing in comparison.

Aikido is practical if you have instructors who understand how to fight. Most of the originals who trained with Morhei Ueshiba were aware of how to fight and atemi was originally a massive part of aikido. For more thoughts and information on atemi, the following book is a good read.

Atemi: The Thunder and Lightning of Aikido by Walther Von Krenner