Devastating Jab counter

[CoryKS]

As the straight punch comes at you, hop or shuffle back a little. Then make a "comb your own hair motion", so your elbow points at the opponent's on-coming fist.

If I'm envisioning this correctly, you would be in a good position to follow it with a forward shuffle/backfist, no?

 

[BallistikMike]

Ah, I see. You want to debate on the merits of testability.

Considering that there is no responsible way to test a technique under conditions more dangerous than a spar, I'll simply have to concede your point that I've never managed to execute the technique while someone was trying to kill me. See, nobody's ever tried to kill me. How 'bout you?

At any rate, you will fight how you train, yes? I don't think that I'll be abandoning techniques that work for me under live sparring conditions because you've decided that they don't work for you. Extrapolating your unverified results out to apply to me is illogical.

So, though I appreciate your feedback, please attempt to refrain from insinuating that I lack the ability to test methodologies on my own. I consider it insulting and unnecessary.

And yes, I understand the difference between a compliant and non-compliant training partner. Thanks, though.

There is no debat on the merits of testability... you either do it or you dont. You say that you do which is great!

You will fight how you train to the point of panic. Panic coming at the instant when you realise that the training you have been doing is worthless (I am not saying you sir, I am saying in general). This is when raw guts and your physical being comes into play.

Yes I have had the horror of facing a situation that made me choose if I wanted to make it home that night. It is flat out scary as hell.

Like I said before there are a ton of what if's and what not's and if you are capable of pulling off shots like impacting an elbow on a moving fist during your sparring sessions I commend you. In the sparring sessions I have been involved in it was one of the very few limb destructions that was ever pulled off and it was pulled off quite rare at that...very rare. Its why I believe its about the only one that would work standing.

To clarify a point here. The fist was hit with the elbow, the fist being in an MMA glove and it blew right through the elbow during live contested sparring matches. Hands are not as fragile as people think and limb destructions/blocks aren't as fool proof as people think is all I am getting at. Now tying up your other hand trying to guide a punch onto the elbow has also been tried, what it does is leave the side of your head or body opened up for a life time. Trained fighters do understand and see openings like that. They do short change the jab or cross and fire off a hook or cross when that opening occurs.

All views are needed on the boards here and when I see things being posted that come across as being "spot on" or "a great technique" I just want to make it known from personal experience that it isn't so.

Should it be worked on... heck yeah. Just don't want people thinking its a fight ender because it is way far away from that.

Great post Flatlander! Thanks for picking my mind

 

[flashlock]

If I'm envisioning this correctly, you would be in a good position to follow it with a forward shuffle/backfist, no?

If the elbow hits the mark, they'll be distracted and you can pretty much pull anything off. Vunak strongly suggests a straightblast.

 

[flashlock]

Some related video -

(first part of the second video)

I like the videos--they demonstrate the technique slightly differently than I learned it, but pretty much the same. The Couture video looked like the "Rhino" interpretation--thanks for sharing the vid feeds!

 

[flashlock]

There is no debat on the merits of testability... you either do it or you dont. You say that you do which is great!

You will fight how you train to the point of panic. Panic coming at the instant when you realise that the training you have been doing is worthless (I am not saying you sir, I am saying in general). This is when raw guts and your physical being comes into play.

Yes I have had the horror of facing a situation that made me choose if I wanted to make it home that night. It is flat out scary as hell.

Like I said before there are a ton of what if's and what not's and if you are capable of pulling off shots like impacting an elbow on a moving fist during your sparring sessions I commend you. In the sparring sessions I have been involved in it was one of the very few limb destructions that was ever pulled off and it was pulled off quite rare at that...very rare. Its why I believe its about the only one that would work standing.

To clarify a point here. The fist was hit with the elbow, the fist being in an MMA glove and it blew right through the elbow during live contested sparring matches. Hands are not as fragile as people think and limb destructions/blocks aren't as fool proof as people think is all I am getting at. Now tying up your other hand trying to guide a punch onto the elbow has also been tried, what it does is leave the side of your head or body opened up for a life time. Trained fighters do understand and see openings like that. They do short change the jab or cross and fire off a hook or cross when that opening occurs.

All views are needed on the boards here and when I see things being posted that come across as being "spot on" or "a great technique" I just want to make it known from personal experience that it isn't so.

Should it be worked on... heck yeah. Just don't want people thinking its a fight ender because it is way far away from that.

Great post Flatlander! Thanks for picking my mind

Thanks for your posts--you know what you're talking about! The destructions are not as easy to pull off as it appears in sparring with gloves (as someone else mentioned), and it is more difficult to catch a fast jab, even as just a parry (it is possible, though I think it's too hard for me, personally). And you're right, even if you do break their hand, they'll probably ignore it if they're out for your skull. Good points to keep in mind when training!

 

[flashlock]

This is where directing the incoming punch in with a parry into the elbow can help a great deal. I use this type of a limb destruction, but in a slightly different way than explained. What I'll do is actually attack the shot, essentially elbow striking the fist while directing the incoming punch with the parry. It reduces the targetting uncertainty, while allowing you to enter.

Yes, it is possible, but very difficult (at least for me). Vunak mentions this method but belives it's "impossible against a jab". I think it would be best against a right cross? I'm going to give it a shot vs light gloves, see what happens! Thanks!

 

[terryl965]

It is a great limb destruction technique.

I would agree with you Brian if done right it is very devastating

 

[Flatlander]

Yes, it is possible, but very difficult (at least for me). Vunak mentions this method but belives it's "impossible against a jab". I think it would be best against a right cross? I'm going to give it a shot vs light gloves, see what happens! Thanks!

The jab, if thrown well, is pretty tough to do anything with. I'm more of a duck and weaver, though the "combing the hair" method can be attempted, as you're not terribly committed to anything with that type of a motion. The way that I learned to deal with a jab and transition into the destructions is to keep your hands up, forearms straight up in the air, elbows chin height and simply put your elbows into the path of the jab. Yes, certainly more likely to be effective against a comitted cross than a jab.

BallistikMike[/B]]Now tying up your other hand trying to guide a punch onto the elbow has also been tried, what it does is leave the side of your head or body opened up for a life time.

I can't argue with that, but the risks can be mitigated using body positioning - use the right elbow vs. a right cross, left vs. left. This way, the attacker would need to cross his own line to follow up. Of course, one wouldn't want to over-commit to this movement. As you had mentioned previously, that punch isn't going to dangle, in fact, the attacker may even change up the attack. In that circumstance, it's better to be fluid and able to mirror or respond to whatever is being fed. Admittedly, this isn't something that should be attempted without a great deal of practice. A minor miscalculation in timing or aim can cause issues....

 

[jjfighter]

Sounds like the "Crazy Monkey Defense"

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=crazy+monkey+defense&search=Search