Advantage Martial Arts Has Over Guns

[Tez3]

I’ll let you argue that with the QI ‘Elves’ as their researcher/fact checkers are called!

QI elves are always right, the Only Connect elves are fiendish though.

 

[Hyoho]

You are of course a lot less likely to kill someone fighting them as you would be if you shot them.

Which also saves a lot of hassle.

Yes a rather strange thread to say the least. Perhaps a minor point to consider is that if you are going to use a gun to attack you don't actually have to stand close to or in front of people.

 

[drop bear]

Yes a rather strange thread to say the least. Perhaps a minor point to consider is that if you are going to use a gun to attack you don't actually have to stand close to or in front of people.

My thing is. I have been in a lot of altercations and so far haven't killed anyone.

But ok. We don't have a lot of gun violence here.

But even in cultures that do. People still get in to more fist fights than gun fights.

So playing the odds would be to get better at fighting.

 

[Hyoho]

My thing is. I have been in a lot of altercations and so far haven't killed anyone.

But ok. We don't have a lot of gun violence here.

But even in cultures that do. People still get in to more fist fights than gun fights.

So playing the odds would be to get better at fighting.

I guess being in the US gives one different perspective on all this. Here they tend to ride up behind you. two on a motorcycle and shoot you in the back of the head for a small fee. Everybody walks about the village carrying blades including me. Most arguments including stabbing stem from crazed drunken aggression.

Biggest altercation in the city was with three guys in a dark back road on my way back to the dojo. My main objective was to make sure they would not be able to stand up again. The right to gun ownership here is "a mere statutory privilege, not a constitutional right" and cannot be "classified as fundamental" nor "considered an inalienable or absolute right".

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My thing is. I have been in a lot of altercations and so far haven't killed anyone.

But ok. We don't have a lot of gun violence here.

But even in cultures that do. People still get in to more fist fights than gun fights.

So playing the odds would be to get better at fighting.

Do both. Like MMA.

 

[PhotonGuy]

They're not going to do costly investigations like that over a misdemeanor.

That's why, for example, when the police do prostitution stings to catch Johns, they'll make the sex worker underage or appear under the influence of drugs, etc, in order to get the John with higher charges. Because sting ops are so costly, and soliciting prostitution is such a low level misdemeanor, they have to do things like this to get their money's worth.

Sure, if you permanently injure someone, you could get a felony charge that would call for such an investigation. But if you merely give someone a black eye or a busted lip, it's gonna be a misdemeanor and no one is doing any digging like that.

But that's just the thing, particularly if you've got a heavy background in the martial arts you might very well do more damage than just busting somebody's lip or giving them a back eye, you might break ribs or do other such damage that would carry heavier charges and warrant an expensive investigation.

I know a case of a fellow who knocked this guy's teeth out in an altercation, he was hit with felony charges. They would certainly do a heavy investigation in a case like that.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But that's just the thing, particularly if you've got a heavy background in the martial arts you might very well do more damage than just busting somebody's lip or giving them a back eye, you might break ribs or do other such damage that would carry heavier charges and warrant an expensive investigation.

I know a case of a fellow who knocked this guy's teeth out in an altercation, he was hit with felony charges. They would certainly do a heavy investigation in a case like that.

Whether or not you get charged and with what depends on a lot of factors. I was arrested several times for this type of thing when I was a juvenile. I have no arrests after becoming an adult. I spent nearly 3 years on probation, served an enormous amount of community service hours, and paid thousands in restitution for medical bills. In two separate cases I was initially charged with felony assault which was later reduced to misdemeanor battery. Never mind that in one of these I was the one who was assaulted by someone with a weapon, there were witnesses, but they were never called. I responded as a 16 year old might, I continued to stomp and kick this guy after he was down and essentially defeated. This was the third time I fought with this guy in 6 months so I was determined to make it his final attempt. Believe me when I say I felt justified, but If you think justice will be served just because you think you are in the right, think again.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Whether or not you get charged and with what depends on a lot of factors. I was arrested several times for this type of thing when I was a juvenile. I have no arrests after becoming an adult. I spent nearly 3 years on probation, served an enormous amount of community service hours, and paid thousands in restitution for medical bills. In two separate cases I was initially charged with felony assault which was later reduced to misdemeanor battery. Never mind that in one of these I was the one who was assaulted by someone with a weapon, there were witnesses, but they were never called. I responded as a 16 year old might, I continued to stomp and kick this guy after he was down and essentially defeated. This was the third time I fought with this guy in 6 months so I was determined to make it his final attempt. Believe me when I say I felt justified, but If you think justice will be served just because you think you are in the right, think again.

I don't know all the details of your confrontation with the guy who you stomped and kicked after he was down when you were 16 but usually if you stomp and kick on somebody when they're down that will get you in trouble since at that point it is no longer self defense. If you've stopped somebody and they're no longer a threat, stomping and kicking them after they're no longer a threat is not self defense so you most likely will be charged.

 

[Hot Lunch]

But that's just the thing, particularly if you've got a heavy background in the martial arts you might very well do more damage than just busting somebody's lip or giving them a back eye, you might break ribs or do other such damage that would carry heavier charges and warrant an expensive investigation.

I know a case of a fellow who knocked this guy's teeth out in an altercation, he was hit with felony charges. They would certainly do a heavy investigation in a case like that.

Your friend made a choice. If you give someone any serious injuries, you also made a choice.

Look at the Mike Tyson incident on the plane. Tyson punched that guy in the face several times, and only left him with a few cuts. If Tyson can punch someone in the face without causing any serious injuries, then there's no excuse for anyone who causes unnecessary serious injury.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I don't know all the details of your confrontation with the guy who you stomped and kicked after he was down when you were 16 but usually if you stomp and kick on somebody when they're down that will get you in trouble since at that point it is no longer self defense. If you've stopped somebody and they're no longer a threat, stomping and kicking them after they're no longer a threat is not self defense so you most likely will be charged.

All true. And I was charged, arrested, sentenced etc.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Your friend made a choice. If you give someone any serious injuries, you also made a choice.

Look at the Mike Tyson incident on the plane. Tyson punched that guy in the face several times, and only left him with a few cuts. If Tyson can punch someone in the face without causing any serious injuries, then there's no excuse for anyone who causes unnecessary serious injury.

Depends on how you see life and consequences. If someone touches my wife, I will do my absolute best to seriously injure them to the point of removing their ability to continue. Whatever that means. I don’t want to be put in that situation and I do everything to avoid trouble these days, but I am 100% committed to protecting my loved ones under any circumstances whatsoever. That said, if I am alone, they can have my wallet or my car or whatever with no trouble at all.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Depends on how you see life and consequences. If someone touches my wife, I will do my absolute best to seriously injure them to the point of removing their ability to continue. Whatever that means. I don’t want to be put in that situation and I do everything to avoid trouble these days, but I am 100% committed to protecting my loved ones under any circumstances whatsoever. That said, if I am alone, they can have my wallet or my car or whatever with no trouble at all.

Right, but PhotonGuy was insinuating that someone who trains in the martial arts can only be either "on" or "off," and not a "dimmer." The Tyson incident shows that this isn't the case.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Right, but PhotonGuy was insinuating that someone who trains in the martial arts can only be either "on" or "off," and not a "dimmer." The Tyson incident shows that this isn't the case.

True. Tyson could have smashed the guy but was “gentle” instead.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This was the third time I fought with this guy in 6 months so I was determined to make it his final attempt.

If you've stopped somebody and they're no longer a threat, stomping and kicking them after they're no longer a threat is not self defense

Generally, PhotoGuy would be quite correct. But there comes an issue of when "they're no longer a threat." As shown in Wing Woo Gar's quote, this was the 3rd altercation. Obviously the first two fights did NOT eliminate the threat.

When the threat is not immediate, but will be soon, is there a right to self-defense? If one does puts severe hurt on another because experience has shown that nothing less will remove the threat from recurring, is it excessive?

A good lawyer may be able to argue these points, but I think it would be an uphill battle.

 

[HighKick]

Whether or not you get charged and with what depends on a lot of factors. I was arrested several times for this type of thing when I was a juvenile. I have no arrests after becoming an adult. I spent nearly 3 years on probation, served an enormous amount of community service hours, and paid thousands in restitution for medical bills. In two separate cases I was initially charged with felony assault which was later reduced to misdemeanor battery. Never mind that in one of these I was the one who was assaulted by someone with a weapon, there were witnesses, but they were never called. I responded as a 16 year old might, I continued to stomp and kick this guy after he was down and essentially defeated. This was the third time I fought with this guy in 6 months so I was determined to make it his final attempt. Believe me when I say I felt justified, but If you think justice will be served just because you think you are in the right, think again.

Knowing nothing about your juvenile past, did you represent yourself in court of have a PD? Sounds like you had some justifiable grounds that should have been fleshed out and leveraged during the courtroom process.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Knowing nothing about your juvenile past, did you represent yourself in court of have a PD? Sounds like you had some justifiable grounds that should have been fleshed out and leveraged during the courtroom process.

I had a PD. I got the same judge twice for the same sort of thing, he wasn’t having any of it. I went too far, like a 16-17 year old might do.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Generally, PhotoGuy would be quite correct. But there comes an issue of when "they're no longer a threat." As shown in Wing Woo Gar's quote, this was the 3rd altercation. Obviously the first two fights did NOT eliminate the threat.

When the threat is not immediate, but will be soon, is there a right to self-defense? If one does puts severe hurt on another because experience has shown that nothing less will remove the threat from recurring, is it excessive?

A good lawyer may be able to argue these points, but I think it would be an uphill battle.

My PD told me to plead guilty, which I did. That got me a reduced charge and reduced sentence. What I did to the guy was not justified, but I felt like it was. My feelings on the matter are irrelevant to the court system. I didn’t want to go to trial because I did what I was accused of. I just wanted to get it over without catching a felony.

 

[HighKick]

My PD told me to plead guilty, which I did. That got me a reduced charge and reduced sentence. What I did to the guy was not justified, but I felt like it was. My feelings on the matter are irrelevant to the court system. I didn’t want to go to trial because I did what I was accused of. I just wanted to get it over without catching a felony.

That is reasonable and honestly commendable. But it sounds like pleading left out a Lot of the story. Your side of the story. This may have changed the outcome, but you need to resolve the fact that it doesn't matter now and move on.
Like you said, you were 16-17 years old. Leave whatever happened in the past. Learn from it, but do not dwell on it.

Do Not let it be the kind of fear that would inhibit you from protection yourself of others if you ever need to again.

Our 'laws' are a very complex and intentionally written in ways where there are many work-arounds in them. A little known fact is that nearly all our laws are written by defense attorneys. There is an 'out' in all of them. In this way it is a very flawed system ripe with good intent.

A PD makes their living off the sheer number of cases they work. A plea is a much quicker way to a resolution, but not necessarily the best way to go. That said, if a PD was the only way you could go, it is what it is. Time to move on.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That is reasonable and honestly commendable. But it sounds like pleading left out a Lot of the story. Your side of the story. This may have changed the outcome, but you need to resolve the fact that it doesn't matter now and move on.
Like you said, you were 16-17 years old. Leave whatever happened in the past. Learn from it, but do not dwell on it.

Do Not let it be the kind of fear that would inhibit you from protection yourself of others if you ever need to again.

Our 'laws' are a very complex and intentionally written in ways where there are many work-arounds in them. A little known fact is that nearly all our laws are written by defense attorneys. There is an 'out' in all of them. In this way it is a very flawed system ripe with good intent.

A PD makes their living off the sheer number of cases they work. A plea is a much quicker way to a resolution, but not necessarily the best way to go. That said, if a PD was the only way you could go, it is what it is. Time to move on.

Oh I’m not conflicted, I would do the same thing again. I only offered the story. I sleep just fine knowing that POS got his face changed forever. One of my training brothers is a PD, I hear a lot about what goes down. In any case I’m a fine upstanding pillar of the community these days. That case was 35 years ago.

 

[Flying Crane]

A little known fact is that nearly all our laws are written by defense attorneys. There is an 'out' in all of them. In this way it is a very flawed system ripe with good intent.

I am curious how you would substantiate this claim.