Carrying and gun and martial arts training

[Lisa]

Where I live I can't get a CCW and probably never will be able to either, with the way things are looking. Actually, with the way things are looking soon enough we will not be allowed to have guns of any kind, but I will stop complaining now.

I don't know if I would ever feel the need to carry one, or feel comfortable doing so. We have had firearms in our home, locked with trigger locks, etc.

I think part of my "apprehension" is it not being part of my every day life. I think being exposed to it would probably make it less weird to me.

 

[sgtmac_46]

This might sound a little crazy but I am wondering if anyone feels the way I do. In the last few weeks I have been considering going forward with getting my concealed carry license again. I had one in the past but let it expire. I will be carrying in my vehicle a pistol the type and caliber are not important for this question.

But in doing a little research on many gun forums I noticed the main opinion of people on those forums is that, to have a weapon is the “end all be all for most”. What I mean by that is they feel that by having a 9mm, 40cal. 45Acp on their person they are prepared for anything short of all out combat. I have to disagree and think that they are seriously under prepared, and that they are inviting serious repercussions.

It is my opinion that if I am serious about self defense and have decided to arm myself with a pistol that I should also have a means to defend myself with out the use of deadly force. Not all situations will merit the use of deadly force so with that in mind would you agree that it would be responsible to study some form of a martial art as a back up plan, an ability to defend with out killing, and something that goes with you even when your firearm cannot. Like into a Federal Building, liquor store, or a club.

I ask this here because when I asked a question like this on a gun forum I was laughed at, told martial arts were BS, was told if I had faith in my training I would not want to carry a gun. It was not pretty what people had to say. I just overlooked the comments of the uneducated and thought I would brig this question to a more mature audience, and one that understands the value of martial arts training and it place in self defense.

Remember, the gun is a tool, a useful and extremely powerful tool, but a tool nonetheless. Having only one tool in your tool box makes you limited. If being prepared is your goal, you should train in several areas of armed and unarmed combat.

Being able to use improvised weapons well, for example, is important. Being able to throw a decent punch and kick, and grapple, is likewise important. Understanding how to use a knife is important. Ultimately, your mind, and the ability to view situations tactically is your key weapon.

As for the handgun, if you carry it, you likely will never need it.....however, the handgun is one of those things that when you need it....you REALLY need it. If you need a gun, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for one.

As for training, there is a lot of good training around. If you have a little money, i'd highly recommend Gunsite out in Arizona, they are outstanding at teaching you the art of the pistol. Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch is excellent as well.


As for children and guns, every person in your house old enough to remotely comprehend should be taught the basic safety rules. http://www.lightlink.com/critters/gunsafety.htm

Hiding you gun from your child, and never discussing what it is or what it will do, is as dangerous as leaving it on the coffee table. A child brought up to understand firearms, and their proper role, and knowing that they NEVER deviate from the rules of safety, make for FAR safer homes that 'out of sight, out of mind'.

As with all things, there is no cure for incompetent ownership. Incompetent firearms ownership can result in the death of children. Of course, incompetent swimming pool ownership kills many times more children each year than incompetent gun ownership. Lets not even mention incompetent vehicle ownership. Incompetence of all stripes is often fatal.

I did like the suggestion about taking family members out and allowing them to fire the weapon, so that they will see what it is capable of doing, and many will less likely view it as a toy. I'd limit the amount of firings without hearing protection, though. I've lost some high and low range hearing over the years, and i'm not sure the effect that would have on the hearing of children and teenagers.

 

[KenpoTex]

I based that statement on comments posted by, jcraigking “By resorting to draw a weapon, you commit a misdemeaner (even with the CCL).” And this line
“On the flip side, under my state's laws, if you have engaged physically in defending yourself and later present your weapon, you are up a creek. You'll end up in jail for escalating the altercation to a level of deadly force.”
So I guess I did somewhat jump to the conclusion that Jcraigkin, might be from TX, but I also would think that even if not, most laws pertaining to this would be very similar. I am looking through the Texas Statutes Penal Code looking for more info but they seem to word this stuff so that only an attorney could understand and or find what one was looking for in the pages and pages.

First of all, I'm not trying to pick on you, I was just curious whether you actually had checked the laws in your state. It's never advisable to take someone else's word as truth when it comes to to topics like use-of-force and self-defense. Especially when their statements (like the two you cited above) are not necessarily accurate.

Here's the applicable Texas statutes:

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A
person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not
apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.

As you can see, you have considerable "lee-way" regarding the use of deadly force. Someone pulling a knife on you during an attack would definately qualify as "use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force" and as a result, you would be more than justified in using your firearm to stop the threat. As we can see, you are also justified in using deadly force to prevent yourself or someone else from kidnapping, murder, sexual-assault, robbery, etc. One thing worth mentioning: we see in subsection (a)(2) the "Duty to retreat." However in subsection (b) we see that there is no "duty to retreat" when you are in your home, this is also commonly known as "The Castle Doctrine."


Now on to the other quote you cited that mentioned being guilty of a misdemeanor for even drawing your weapon. I didn't take time to track down the Texas statute for this issue so this is more my educated opinion than anything. Most states, mine included, have some sort of law against brandishing or threatening someone with a firearm, however most of them will also have an exception to this rule for someone who is acting in self-defense. In other words, you're not guilty of a misdemeanor for drawing your weapon because you needed it to defend yourself.

Here are the relevant sections of the Texas Penal Code
Self-Defense
Deadly Force in Defense of Person
Defense of Third Person

Have fun reading...

 

[Flying Crane]

As for children and guns, every person in your house old enough to remotely comprehend should be taught the basic safety rules. http://www.lightlink.com/critters/gunsafety.htm

Hiding you gun from your child, and never discussing what it is or what it will do, is as dangerous as leaving it on the coffee table. A child brought up to understand firearms, and their proper role, and knowing that they NEVER deviate from the rules of safety, make for FAR safer homes that 'out of sight, out of mind'.

As with all things, there is no cure for incompetent ownership. Incompetent firearms ownership can result in the death of children. Of course, incompetent swimming pool ownership kills many times more children each year than incompetent gun ownership. Lets not even mention incompetent vehicle ownership. Incompetence of all stripes is often fatal.

I did like the suggestion about taking family members out and allowing them to fire the weapon, so that they will see what it is capable of doing, and many will less likely view it as a toy. I'd limit the amount of firings without hearing protection, though. I've lost some high and low range hearing over the years, and i'm not sure the effect that would have on the hearing of children and teenagers.

I gotta agree with this completely. I have often suspected that many of the accidental shootings that happen in homes is due to a fear of the weapon which results in a lack of appropriate training. Our society tends to want to demonize the weapon, but a little bit of safety training would go a long way.

 

[Cujo]

Just a thought. It has been mentioned several times that a firearm is just a tool and one part of an overall defense system, and I agree completly. I would only add this, if you carry a firearm make sure that you train with a "red" or "blue" gun. Any time you are carrying a firearm, there is at least one gun present at the fight, yours. Also while we all practice break falls and other techniques, you must alter some of your training to include the fact that you are carrying a firearm. ie. If you have ever fallen on your weapon, it's not something that you will want to repeat. Train to fall away from your weapon side whenever possible. Also, you must protect your weapon at all times. Your firearm will do you no good if it is in the hands of your attacker.

Pax
Cujo

 

[Sin]

I don't like guns, but I am going to school to be a police officer so I have to learn how to use them, and learn defence aginst them...I do agree that if you carry a weapon its not going to "fix" every situation...training in unarmed combat is necessary for a well rounded warrior....

 

[clfsean]

Why limit your options for self defense? That's my stand point. I've studied MA since 1981 & had a CCW since 1993 or 94. Only used MA twice in my life & never have looked at my pistol seriously except at the range. Life's been good to me so far, but why limit my choices?