a base martial art

[Wing Woo Gar]

Whether I attained a rank in our program called Master or not I doubt I would go by that on here because I would guess many people on Martial Talk have attained that rank or higher within their own program. Besides I've always felt it's best to start from a place of humility. Whatever rank I am, I still learn new things every day.

 

[Instructor]

Before I retired I attended transition training. Most military people do before they get out. Everyone in the room was in plain civilian clothes. I ended up being good friends with the guy sitting next to me. It turned out that in uniform he was many, many, many ranks higher than I was and we would never have socialized normally. It's nice when people can just relate to each other as people without some arbitrary caste system to live under.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Whether I attained a rank in our program called Master or not I doubt I would go by that on here because I would guess many people on Martial Talk have attained that rank or higher within their own program. Besides I've always felt it's best to start from a place of humility. Whatever rank I am, I still learn new things every day.

That, and it's just sort of weird. I don't know any Koreans who refer to themselves as "Sabumnim" or "Master" or whatever. It's just not done.

 

[Instructor]

That, and it's just sort of weird. I don't know any Koreans who refer to themselves as "Sabumnim" or "Master" or whatever. It's just not done.

I've done Korean martial arts for years but haven't met too many actual Koreans..

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've done Korean martial arts for years but haven't met too many actual Koreans..

I've met a fair few.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

That, and it's just sort of weird. I don't know any Koreans who refer to themselves as "Sabumnim" or "Master" or whatever. It's just not done.

Well, I think it’s fine for people to refer to themselves as Sifu or whatever when addressing their students. I can’t help but roll my eyes at people who do it outside of that particular context. I’m just fine with my name.

 

[Gyakuto]

I think it’s self-aggrandising to self-use a title such as ‘sifu’, ‘sensei’, ‘shihan’ or even ‘hanshi’ (usually and incorrectly preceding one‘s name!) and of course, that is the purpose of doing so. Those not in the know’ might be impressed by it but very few people on a board such as this are ignorant of ‘Eastern etiquette‘. I’m sure American physiologist David Julius does introduce himself by saying, “Hello, I’m Nobel Prize-winning Dr David Julius.” It‘d be….gauche. Other people may call you by titles voluntarily, but should not be invited to do so, by those who ‘bear‘ those titles!

Anyway, it’s of little importance…
King of the World Professor Sir ‘I could’ve won a Nobel Prize if I were only intelligent and innovative enough…and indeed, not so lazy…and fat’ Dr Gyakuto- Father of Dragons.

 

[Steve]

Some people get uptight about some people getting uptight about some people calling themselves “master”…

Who are you calling uptight?

Regarding the rest, I refer to myself as "The Steve." I think that tells you everything you need to know....

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Who are you calling uptight?

Regarding the rest, I refer to myself as "The Steve." I think that tells you everything you need to know....

Some people. I think I said that. If you want names of people that I think are uptight, ok then, my name is Jason. I like your moniker, I can’t claim it though because I share my name with a training brother who is my better in every conceivable way.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think it’s self-aggrandising to self-use a title such as ‘sifu’, ‘sensei’, ‘shihan’ or even ‘hanshi’ (usually and incorrectly preceding one‘s name!) and of course, that is the purpose of doing so. Those not in the know’ might be impressed by it but very few people on a board such as this are ignorant of ‘Eastern etiquette‘. I’m sure American physiologist David Julius does introduce himself by saying, “Hello, I’m Nobel Prize-winning Dr David Julius.” It‘d be….gauche. Other people may call you by titles voluntarily, but should not be invited to do so, by those who ‘bear‘ those titles!

Anyway, it’s of little importance…
King of the World Professor Sir ‘I could’ve won a Nobel Prize if I were only intelligent and innovative enough…and indeed, not so lazy…and fat’ Dr Gyakuto- Father of Dragons.

It's admittedly a bit of a gray area. I would not be at all surprised if he introduced himself as "Dr David Julius". Let's not get into the debate about MD Dr vs PhD Dr. I've treated MDs who had not practiced medicine in 35 years who still call themselves "Dr." I treated one just last week - a retired oncologist - who was worried that he would react to the iodine in CT contrast. He was honestly surprised when I told him there wouldn't be any contrast for the CT of his hip. Still wanted to be called Dr though.

 

[Gyakuto]

It's admittedly a bit of a gray area. I would not be at all surprised if he introduced himself as "Dr David Julius". Let's not get into the debate about MD Dr vs PhD Dr. I've treated MDs who had not practiced medicine in 35 years who still call themselves "Dr." I treated one just last week - a retired oncologist - who was worried that he would react to the iodine in CT contrast. He was honestly surprised when I told him there wouldn't be any contrast for the CT of his hip. Still wanted to be called Dr though.

Did he say, “call me doctor, please”?

I don’t publicly use the title for fear of being charged more for services!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Did he say, “call me doctor, please”?

No, but he introduces himself as "Dr Nonesuch" and told me 3 times in the first 5 minutes that he was a physician.

 

[Gyakuto]

No, but he introduces himself as "Dr Nonesuch" and told me 3 times in the first 5 minutes that he was a physician.

Astonishingly fragile ego.

Maybe that’s what self-citing grand titles is all about. Many in my martial art have achieved little of note, in their eyes, in their lives other than high grades in martial arts. So they strut around the dojo at seminars shouting at adults there to learn, chests puffed out, have business cards printed with grand titles and ‘this ‘n’ that‘ coaching qualification etc. A psychiatrist/clinical psychologist would derive several papers and books from examining them…if they weren’t so dull. Dr. ‘could’ve been an astronaut if I wasn’t too fat for the pressure suits’ Gyakuto

 

[Rich Parsons]

No, but he introduces himself as "Dr Nonesuch" and told me 3 times in the first 5 minutes that he was a physician.

When with medical people - I almost introduce myself as they ask my name and birthdate for confirmation of the test or procedure.
I say "Hi, I am Rich".
I then proceed to tell them I am an engineer and I like to ask questions. I am NOT a medical doctor nor a lawyer trying to question anything being done here, I just like to learn how it all works.

Most smile, some roll their eyes a little , and many of the Doctors relax a bit if I had already asked a question or two without the second part of the introduction.

On the training floor as a guest or in my school I am relaxed. If someone has a question, please ask.
If you use a title from your system or a generic sir it is all cool.
I even tell them that I will answer to UM and *Blank Stare* raised hand. And of course Rich on and off the floor.
I tell them to follow the rules of their system if they are requested to do so, yet only because the request came from their system / instructor(s).

 

[Unkogami]

Some people will call themselves "sifu" as a way of putting on airs. Others will see use of the term that way and resent it. When I lived in China I would use the term with taxi drivers or bartenders, if that gives you some sense of how the term is really used and taken.

 

[Unkogami]

When I lived in Japan some ex pats would take great offense at the term "gaijin." They were invariably kids who watched too many movies and never bothered to learn what the term actually means.

 

[Rich Parsons]

When I lived in Japan some ex pats would take great offense at the term "gaijin." They were invariably kids who watched too many movies and never bothered to learn what the term actually means.

Having arrived in Hamamatsu late on a train from Nagoya after a long flint from Detroit Mi, I checked in and wondered around to see if I could find some food.

I heard music down an alley street that turned after the first build.
I wondered down and as I made the turn I heard music as a guy was exiting a building. The door was elevated up with a set of stairs (Concrete) to a landing.
I started walking towards the door.
A man on the landing started to cross his arms yelling Ie Gaijin! at me.
I apologized with "excuse me My apologies" in Japanese and made a turn down the T and continued to look.

I did find a place to get a drink and food.

Many other Americans / Canadians were upset I was treated this way, who were all their for work/business.
I just smiled and said it is their country and their business. I wouldn't eat or drink in a place that didn't want me there.

 

[geezer]

No, but he introduces himself as "Dr Nonesuch" and told me 3 times in the first 5 minutes that he was a physician.

Imagine an MD who practices medicine for his entire career and is called "Doctor". I can't imagine him retiring and telling everyone to suddenly start calling him "Mister". To date, that is NOT the custom for an RN, NP or PA. Fair or unfair, the MD degree is taken to confer the title and status of "Doctor" for life, even for retired MDs who haven't renewed their license to practice in decades.

No, I'm not in the medical profession as several members of this forum are, but I was raised with a father and uncle who were both MDs, my stepmother, and a couple of step sisters are RNs, and most of my parents friends were medical associates.

Nowadays, many of those people are elderly or have passed on, and my father is 97. Of course he is long retired. Yet all those surviving associates who do not know him well enough to call him by his first name, still call him "Doctor". That's just our culture I guess.

As for myself, hundreds of my former high school students, many now fully adults, some with grown kids still call me "Mr. F." just like when they were in my class. Go figure!

 

[Gyakuto]

Imagine an MD who practices medicine for his entire career and is called "Doctor". I can't imagine him retiring and telling everyone to suddenly start calling him "Mister". To date, that is NOT the custom for an RN, NP or PA. Fair or unfair, the MD degree is taken to confer the title and status of "Doctor" for life, even for retired MDs who haven't renewed their license to practice in decades.

No, I'm not in the medical profession as several members of this forum are, but I was raised with a father and uncle who were both MDs, my stepmother, and a couple of step sisters are RNs, and most of my parents friends were medical associates.

Nowadays, many of those people are elderly or have passed on, and my father is 97. Of course he is long retired. Yet all those surviving associates who do not know him well enough to call him by his first name, still call him "Doctor". That's just our culture I guess.

As for myself, hundreds of my former high school students, many now fully adults, some with grown kids still call me "Mr. F." just like when they were in my class. Go figure!

I don’t think the issue is with having and using the title for one’s whole life, especially after one has worked so hard to earn it. It’s the almost, insistence on being referred by it, even in casual interactions with relative strangers to whom it has no current significance. It smacks of…some ‘inadequacy‘ in the character of the bearer that they require immediate and unconditional respect. I think there’s a similar situation with martial arts titles…outside of ones martial circle, they are meaningless and to somehow force significance upon them by their ubiquitous use…it makes me shudder.

I always referred to my lovely, kind, PhD supervisor as ‘Dr Gladden’ even years after that period of being under her care was well and truly over. It was only at her funeral that her son said to me, “I’m sure she won’t mind you calling her ‘Margaret’ now…”

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don’t think the issue is with having and using the title for one’s whole life, especially after one has worked so hard to earn it. It’s the almost, insistence on being referred by it, even in casual interactions with relative strangers to whom it has no current significance. It smacks of…some ‘inadequacy‘ in the character of the bearer that they require immediate and unconditional respect. I think there’s a similar situation with martial arts titles…outside of ones martial circle, they are meaningless and to somehow force significance upon them by their ubiquitous use…it makes me shudder.

I always referred to my lovely, kind, PhD supervisor as ‘Dr Gladden’ even years after that period of being under her care was well and truly over. It was only at her funeral that her son said to me, “I’m sure she won’t mind you calling her ‘Margaret’ now…”

I'm pretty accustomed to calling physicians by the names. On occasion, I've had one draw themselves up and get snippy about how they are to be called Dr whatever. My standard response is that since we're being formal, they are welcome to call me "Your excellency".