Yes
DoxN4cer
Purple Belt
How did he come to find out about Dan's promotion? Did you know about his feelings about the matter? Did you discourage him from or encourage him to address his fellings on the forum? I mean really, Tim. It seems to be contrary to the official statements made by you both personally and on behalf of the WMAA. Should we shift this to private e-mail?
r/
Tim
Dan
Been reading this thread over the last couple of days and I meant to post earlier but figured while I was answering a couple of other threads I'd check this one, wow up to 6 pages is right.
Anyway one of the reasons I went to the symposium was to attend your sessions and they were very good. For the record Dan has been instructing in the martial arts for a long time and he is a very good communicater and teacher and a credit to his teacher GM Remy. After attending seminars with some of the top ranked instructors in the FMA over the years Dan ranked right up there for his teaching ability probably due in part at least to his background in the Martial arts prior to his exposure to GM Remy and his continued teaching of both systems (his and Remy's). Plus writing his books on MA and establishing his own system.
This is more than a lot of people have done, other people might have more skill (how do I know), or more time with GM Remy. But hey Dan can at least pass on the art and hopefully keep the art alive in his system of MA 80.
In reading Dan's books he has at least tried to make the art something that is different (principles being taught) than how it is usually taught. Take a look at GM Remy's book and many people teach that way as in this technique or that technique not getting into the principles behind the techniques. Dan has gone further than that in his books. His teaching at the symposium was the same and that to me shows that he knows what he is teaching MA 80 or whatever.
Whatever Dan's rank is really doesn't matter to those outside of his system. Paul brought up that it does affect everyone (if I'm wrong here Paul I apologize) but I beg to differ. His rank doesn't effect everyone. However his teaching and his skill will, if he knows his material (and I believe he does) then he will help build the art of Modern Arnis. And that is what really counts here right.
Dang it another long post.
With respect
Mark
Been reading this thread over the last couple of days and I meant to post earlier but figured while I was answering a couple of other threads I'd check this one, wow up to 6 pages is right.
Anyway one of the reasons I went to the symposium was to attend your sessions and they were very good. For the record Dan has been instructing in the martial arts for a long time and he is a very good communicater and teacher and a credit to his teacher GM Remy. After attending seminars with some of the top ranked instructors in the FMA over the years Dan ranked right up there for his teaching ability probably due in part at least to his background in the Martial arts prior to his exposure to GM Remy and his continued teaching of both systems (his and Remy's). Plus writing his books on MA and establishing his own system.
This is more than a lot of people have done, other people might have more skill (how do I know), or more time with GM Remy. But hey Dan can at least pass on the art and hopefully keep the art alive in his system of MA 80.
In reading Dan's books he has at least tried to make the art something that is different (principles being taught) than how it is usually taught. Take a look at GM Remy's book and many people teach that way as in this technique or that technique not getting into the principles behind the techniques. Dan has gone further than that in his books. His teaching at the symposium was the same and that to me shows that he knows what he is teaching MA 80 or whatever.
Whatever Dan's rank is really doesn't matter to those outside of his system. Paul brought up that it does affect everyone (if I'm wrong here Paul I apologize) but I beg to differ. His rank doesn't effect everyone. However his teaching and his skill will, if he knows his material (and I believe he does) then he will help build the art of Modern Arnis. And that is what really counts here right.
Dang it another long post.
With respect
Mark
This was posted on MT.com a while ago:
If this applies to one of my members, it applies to all of them. :asian:
If this applies to one of my members, it applies to all of them. :asian:
T
tmanifold
Guest
Lets look at this logically and you will see that Dan did a pretty good job of this.
Example 1:
Dan has a 6th dan in Modern Arnis awarded by the Prof.
Dan is a 7th dan in American Freestyle Karate
As a founder of an art it is reasonable that he have a rank higher than he has in arts of which he is a student.
Therefore 8th degree is the logical number.
Example 2:
Dan founded his own art
Because it is not "Modern arnis" any rank given by a "Modern Arnis" organization is not relevent nor needed.
Example 3.
Dan decided he needed to validate his new rank.
Dan doesn't see dead people so he can't ask Remy personally.
Validation could have come from 2 sources Remy's Students ie his Subordinates or from Remy's peers and friends who also are "GMs" ie his equals.
The choice is obvious.
I think the problem here is that people are jealous at Dan's percieved "new 8th degree blackbelt in Modern arnis". It seems to me he doesn't have a "new 8th degree black belt in modern arnis".
Example 1:
Dan has a 6th dan in Modern Arnis awarded by the Prof.
Dan is a 7th dan in American Freestyle Karate
As a founder of an art it is reasonable that he have a rank higher than he has in arts of which he is a student.
Therefore 8th degree is the logical number.
Example 2:
Dan founded his own art
Because it is not "Modern arnis" any rank given by a "Modern Arnis" organization is not relevent nor needed.
Example 3.
Dan decided he needed to validate his new rank.
Dan doesn't see dead people so he can't ask Remy personally.
Validation could have come from 2 sources Remy's Students ie his Subordinates or from Remy's peers and friends who also are "GMs" ie his equals.
The choice is obvious.
I think the problem here is that people are jealous at Dan's percieved "new 8th degree blackbelt in Modern arnis". It seems to me he doesn't have a "new 8th degree black belt in modern arnis".
T
tmanifold
Guest
Just realized Dan founded America Freestyle. Disregard that part.
Tony
Tony
R
Red Blade
Guest
From Mr. Anderson's site:
Mr. Anderson, I'm curious about something. I can understand why you would use this formula to base your rank promotions after the passing of GM Presas. WouldnĀt this make you a 7th dan in 2004? You can't count the years that GM Presas was alive. The reasons why I say this is that if he wanted you to have a higher ranked belt wouldn't he have promoted you between 92-01? If you use this formula from the time of his passing you would be eligible in 2004 for 7th dan.
Mr. Anderson, I'm curious about something. I can understand why you would use this formula to base your rank promotions after the passing of GM Presas. WouldnĀt this make you a 7th dan in 2004? You can't count the years that GM Presas was alive. The reasons why I say this is that if he wanted you to have a higher ranked belt wouldn't he have promoted you between 92-01? If you use this formula from the time of his passing you would be eligible in 2004 for 7th dan.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Originally posted by Red Blade
1 - Mr. Anderson, I'm curious about something. I can understand why you would use this formula to base your rank promotions after the passing of GM Presas. WouldnĀt this make you a 7th dan in 2004?
2 - You can't count the years that GM Presas was alive. The reasons why I say this is that if he wanted you to have a higher ranked belt wouldn't he have promoted you between 92-01? If you use this formula from the time of his passing you would be eligible in 2004 for 7th dan.
Dear Red,
1 - I based the time on when I was promoted, not beginning when he passed away. If I based it on when he died, your math would be correct.
2 - A number of us seniors didn't pester Prof. Presas about rank when he was alive nor did he ever really follow any kind of predictable promotion pattern (as far as I can see, anyway). As to whether I can count the years he was alive, I do as I was continuously training during those years. Also, the GM's endorsing the petition either saw it the way I did or saw it your way and looked at other qualifications as well. I don't know so I can't say which.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Dan went to a review board of his seniors - including Wally Jay, a close friend and seminar tourist with Remy - and asked if they thought that he had done enough to be recongized as an 8th degree and head of his own curriculum.
How is that different from a college student applying for graduate, or Submitting a job resume? Since when is it bad to be a go getter, to pursue a goal. Dan HAD demonstrated his skill to these members as well as the list of accomplishments that included being published twice. In scholarly circles, publication is the key to success. Even there the members who create a college degree program haven't taken all of those classes and may not be experts in the specific discipline that the applicant is seeking his degree in, BUT they do understand the CONCEPT (a favorite REMY word) of what needs to be accomplished.
BESIDES, didn't Remy and every other FMA GM tell us to take a technique/concept... what ever and practice it, figure out a counter to it, and then make it our own. On a conceptual level, hasn't Dan done just that by examining the entire system, absorbing it, and finding a way that he can organize and teach it so that his students will benefit?
I really don't see the big stir.
Paul Martin
How is that different from a college student applying for graduate, or Submitting a job resume? Since when is it bad to be a go getter, to pursue a goal. Dan HAD demonstrated his skill to these members as well as the list of accomplishments that included being published twice. In scholarly circles, publication is the key to success. Even there the members who create a college degree program haven't taken all of those classes and may not be experts in the specific discipline that the applicant is seeking his degree in, BUT they do understand the CONCEPT (a favorite REMY word) of what needs to be accomplished.
BESIDES, didn't Remy and every other FMA GM tell us to take a technique/concept... what ever and practice it, figure out a counter to it, and then make it our own. On a conceptual level, hasn't Dan done just that by examining the entire system, absorbing it, and finding a way that he can organize and teach it so that his students will benefit?
I really don't see the big stir.
Paul Martin
I try to be clear as to when I'm speaking officially, be it under my WMAA hat or under my MartialTalk Admin. hat. In both cases I "sign" official pronouncements. Much of the time I'm just posting my own thoughts. If there's ever any doubt in anyone's mind, please ask!
For clarity, I should state I speak on behalf of the Board of Advisors of the WMAA; of course Mr. Hartman can speak for the WMAA itself.
B
bloodwood
Guest
Professor may not have had any set order to promoting upper belts or know the dates when they all were last promoted but he did know who they all were. From 5th on, they were exactly where he wanted them. The promotion ladder that was issued in the pink book, as well as the belts used (white, brown and black only) were different than what Professor used after he came to the US. So using that scale because it is the only one in print is not valid as it is OUTDATED. Not in print but by Professor's actions.
He no longer used that scale. If you were an upper belt and weren't getting promoted, He had a reason. Let no one say" I should have been."
If you left the system you stopped getting promoted, as in the case of Kelly Worden. Tim Hartman stayed in the system and tested every 3 years up to 6th. If Professor where alive there is no reason to believe he would not have tested for his 7th. I use Tim as an example because there is a pattern there. For some, Professor had them on a track to the future and others were left on the tracks. Why that is, none of us will ever know. We just live with the choices he made while he was running the show.
bloodwood
I've been reading this thread since the beginning of it. All I can say is I have a lot more things to worry about in life than if Mr. Anderson was promoted to 8th or not. (sorry for sounding rude) If he is an excellent teacher, student, instructor and can prove to others that he is established at this rank then who would I be to say he shouldn't be?:asian: All I have heard so far is that he is a good guy and can be up his stuff. That's enough for me.
Mr. Anderson,
Congratulations Sir.:asian:
R
Red Blade
Guest
Could you tell us more about this?
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Folks,
A lot of this bickering seems to revolve around the number 8. Let me tell you something you already know and something maybe you don't. This is how I view it.
Under Remy Presas there were several 6th degree black belts in the US. Some of us have been promoted by others now the founded is not with us. To me each of us have two ranks:
Remy Presas-------------Respective organization
Tim Hartman 6th---------WMAA 7th
Kelly Worden 6th---------MARPPIO 7th
Dieter Knuettel 6th-------IMAF Philippines 7th
Dan Anderson 6th--------MA 80 8th
These guys are my peers. I am not senior to them nor are they senior to me. Why? We were all the same numerical rank under the founder. In our own respective organizations we are of different ranks. As I told Kelly in his forum, "My branch, my school." Pure and simple.
A lot of this bickering seems to revolve around the number 8. Let me tell you something you already know and something maybe you don't. This is how I view it.
Under Remy Presas there were several 6th degree black belts in the US. Some of us have been promoted by others now the founded is not with us. To me each of us have two ranks:
Remy Presas-------------Respective organization
Tim Hartman 6th---------WMAA 7th
Kelly Worden 6th---------MARPPIO 7th
Dieter Knuettel 6th-------IMAF Philippines 7th
Dan Anderson 6th--------MA 80 8th
These guys are my peers. I am not senior to them nor are they senior to me. Why? We were all the same numerical rank under the founder. In our own respective organizations we are of different ranks. As I told Kelly in his forum, "My branch, my school." Pure and simple.
A person should be promoted upon certain criteria.
Time spent at the art.
Knowledge of the art.
Teaching the art.
Going to seminars to learn from others about the art.
Going to seminars teaching the art.
Passing on knowledge to students about the art.
Proficiency of the students studying the art.
Innovating new techniques and strategies about the art.
Students thinking for themselves understanding what they have learned about the art.
These are just a few off of the top of my head.:asian:
Time spent at the art.
Knowledge of the art.
Teaching the art.
Going to seminars to learn from others about the art.
Going to seminars teaching the art.
Passing on knowledge to students about the art.
Proficiency of the students studying the art.
Innovating new techniques and strategies about the art.
Students thinking for themselves understanding what they have learned about the art.
These are just a few off of the top of my head.:asian:
Agreed!:asian:
R
Rocky
Guest
Dan,
Your example of each person having rank in both Remy's art and their perspective organization, should end any and all arguments on this subject!! It is perfect! And the inner workings of your org. or Tims, or anyones elses, is really of no business to outsiders.
Bottom line is, you are passing on your knowledge to future generations, therefore in one way or another the art lives on!!
Rocky
Your example of each person having rank in both Remy's art and their perspective organization, should end any and all arguments on this subject!! It is perfect! And the inner workings of your org. or Tims, or anyones elses, is really of no business to outsiders.
Bottom line is, you are passing on your knowledge to future generations, therefore in one way or another the art lives on!!
Rocky
