8-year-old girl's marriage ruled legal

[Archangel M]

Of this whole discussion, the thing that baffles me is that several people try to mitigate the actions in the article by saying, "oh, well so and so is not better, so you really can't complain."

Interesting.

Agreed. Where does it end? How far does the blast radius on "let them do what they want..its not our business" extend? Where do you draw the line concerning what is right or wrong in your own back yard? How easy it is to let "moral relativism" into your own life.

I'm not saying that we have the duty to or should invade Saudi Arabia over something like this or that we have to stop trade and aid with every country that doesn't share our morality, but Im with Twin Fist on this...I find it discouraging how often the "moral relativism" debate pops up whenever someone wants to say that something is WRONG.

 

[Archangel M]

Shouldn't we fix our own issues before we condemn someone else for theirs?

Name any society that has EVER "fixed its issues"? When will our issues ever be "fixed"? When, in human history has there EVER been a "fixed state"? That's always the mantra against spending money on exploration. How can we spend money on space exploration when it should be used to feed the poor? There will always be a reason to not do something. Its always thrown out as some sort of counter argument for standing up for someone elses rights. No offense but that has never been a good argument for letting evil "over there" have its way.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, if those of us who understand the cultural differences are wrong for pointing that out, then what should our proper reactions be here?

Join the hate against a religion?
Complain loudly on a website that none of those involved directly read?
Just go "baaah" and say "I agree"?

Here's my real problem here. Every so often an issue like this comes up, FUD comes into play, people argue, tempers flare, and then it gets back burnered until the next chest beater comes along. In the mean time, the other thousand+ victims are ignored.

I'll limit this soley to Child Marriage.

Twin Fist and maybe a few others? have this anti-Islam thing going on here, as if it's an Islam issue.

It's not.

Where is the Outrage against Indian child brides, or Thai child brides, etc? No where. It's this whole "Anti-Islam" bent that's pissing me off.

Here, chew on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage

Africa

Despite many countries enacting marriageable age laws to limit marriage to a minimum age of 16 to 18, depending on jurisdiction, traditional marriages are widespread. Poverty, tradition, and conflict make the incidence of child marriage in Sub-Saharan Africa similar to South Asia.[1]
In many tribal systems, a man pays a bride price to the girl's family in order to marry her. (Compare with the customes of dowry and dower.) In many parts of Africa, this payment, in cash, cattle, or other valuables, decreases as a girl gets older. Even before puberty it is common for a married girl to leave her parents to be with her husband. Many marriages are poverty related, with parents needing the bride price to feed, clothe, educate, and house the rest of the family. Meanwhile, a male child in these countries is more likely to gain a full education, gain employment and pursue a working life, thus tending to marry later. In Mali, the female:male ratio of marriage before age 18 is 72:1; in Kenya, 21:1.[1]
The various UN commissioned reports indicate that in many Sub-Saharan countries, there is a high incidence of marriage among girls younger than 15. Many governments have tended to overlook the particular problems that child marriage has resulted in, including obstetric fistulae, prematurity, stillbirth, sexually transmitted diseases (including cervical cancer), and malaria.[1]
In parts of Ethiopia and Nigeria, over 50% of girls are married before the age of 15 and some girls are married as young as the age of 7.[2] In parts of Mali, 39% of girls are married before the age of 15. In Niger and Chad, over 70% of girls are married before the age of 18.[1]
In South Africa, there are legal provisions made for respecting the marriage laws of traditional marriages whereby a person might be married as young as 12 for females and 14 for males.[1]
Early marriage is cited as "a barrier to continuing education for girls (and boys)". This includes absuma (arranged marriages set up between cousins at birth), bride kidnapping, and elopement decided on by the children[3].

United States

Laws regarding child marriage vary throughout the United States, though generally children 16 and over may marry with parental consent. Under 16 generally require a court order in addition to the parental consent.[4]
Until 2008, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, practiced child marriage through the concept 'spiritual (religious only) marriages,' as soon as girls are ready to bear children, as part of its polygamy practice and laws have raised the age of legal marriage in response to criticism of the practice.[citation needed] In 2008, the Church changed its policy in the United States to no longer marry individuals younger than the local legal age.[citation needed]
In 2007, church leader Warren Jeffs was convicted of being an accomplice to statutory rape of a minor due to arranging a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and a 19-year-old man.[5] In March 2008, the state of Texas believed that children at the Yearning For Zion Ranch were being married to adults and were being abused.[6] The state of Texas removed all 468 children from the ranch and placed them into temporary state custody.[6] FLDS denied the charges. The charges were eventually dropped in court as there was no solid evidence in support of this, and it was determined that the state entered the ranch illegally.[citation needed]

South Asia

The Child Marriage Restraint Act, 1929 was passed during the tenure of British rule on pre-partition India, and forbade a male younger than twenty-one or a female younger than eighteen to get married. A marriage fell under the scope of this Act if either of the contracting parties met the established criterion of a child.[7]
South Asia has the highest prevalence of child marriage of any region in the world in the world. In 2009 49% of women aged 20-24 had been married prior to the age of 18.[8]

India

In an effort to curb the practice of child marriages the states of Rajasthan, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Karnataka and Himachal Pradesh have passed laws that mandate the registration of all marriages in order to make it a valid marriage.[citation needed] However, mass marriages that involve children are frequently ignored by authorities.[9]
According to “National Plan of Action for Children 2005,” (published by the Department of Women and Child Development of India) a goal has been set to eliminate child marriage completely by 2010. This plan is proving to be successful, though it is still difficult to monitor every child due to the sheer population of India.[10]
According to UNICEF’s “State of the World’s Children-2009” report, 47% of India's women aged 20-24 were married before the legal age of 18, with 56% in rural areas.[11] The report also showed that 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India.[12]

Pakistan

Despite the aforementioned Act, the traditions is still practiced in some areas through Vani and other customs like Watta satta and Swara[13]. The minimum legal age for marriage is 18 for men and 16 for girls.[14]

Bangladesh

According to statistics from 2005, 45% of women then between 25 and 29 were married by the age of 15 in Bangladesh.[2] According to the “State of the World’s Children-2009” report, 63% of all women aged 20-24 were married before the age of 18. [15]
The Ministry of Women and Children Affairs is making progress in increasing women's education and employment opportunities. This, combined with specific education about child marriage and cooperation with religious leaders, is hoped to decrease child marriage.[citation needed]

Middle East


Yemen

Though there is no reliable national data on the incidence of child marriage in Yemen, sample surveys suggest one in two brides are 18 or under. [16] Yemen’s legal minimum marriage age of 15 was revoked a decade ago to allow parents to decide when their daughters should marry.
Child marriage in Yemen is prompted by the high cultural value ascribed to shaping a young bride to fit the traditions and habits of the groom’s family. It is also fueled by poverty as some parents sell their daughters for a dowry. [17]
Some advocates of child marriage defend the practice on religious grounds – in line with an interpretation of the Koran claiming there is no prescribed age for marriage. [18] However, Islam does prescribe that a bride or groom must be mature physically (have gone through puberty) and emotionally.[citation needed]
Civil society activists are lobbying the Yemeni legislature to re-instate a legal minimum age for marriage. The move follows extensive media exposure surrounding the cases of three young girls: Arwa, 9; Nujood, 10; and Reem, 12 – who escaped from abusive marriages. [19]

Saudi Arabia

The widespread prevalence of Child Marriage in the Islamic monarchy of Saudi Arabia has been documented by Human rights groups [1] [2]. Saudi clerics have justified the marriage of girls as young as 9, with sanction from the judiciary [3].There are no laws defining the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia, and girls as young as eight years of age can marry [4].

Contemporary practice

On October 30, 2008, police in Pakistan raided a child marriage and arrested two men on suspicion of organising the wedding of their two children to end their families' feud. In addition a marriage registrar in the Nazimabad area near Karachi claimed that a four-year-old girl and a seven-year-old boy were being wedded unlawfully.[14]

Just a few bits, also bolded above.

• In parts of Ethiopia and Nigeria, over 50% of girls are married before the age of 15 and some girls are married as young as the age of 7
• In South Africa, there are legal provisions made for respecting the marriage laws of traditional marriages whereby a person might be married as young as 12 for females
• 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India.
• However, Islam does prescribe that a bride or groom must be mature physically (have gone through puberty) and emotionally.
• here are no laws defining the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia, and girls as young as eight years of age can marry

What can we do to fix this?
What makes our opinion that this is wrong, the correct one?
When is "Old Enough" and why?

Can those 3 questions be answered, or is the only answer we're supposed to give is "Damn right, those evil bastards!"?

 

[yorkshirelad]

Well, if those of us who understand the cultural differences are wrong for pointing that out, then what should our proper reactions be here?

Join the hate against a religion?
Complain loudly on a website that none of those involved directly read?
Just go "baaah" and say "I agree"?

Here's my real problem here. Every so often an issue like this comes up, FUD comes into play, people argue, tempers flare, and then it gets back burnered until the next chest beater comes along. In the mean time, the other thousand+ victims are ignored.

I'll limit this soley to Child Marriage.

Twin Fist and maybe a few others? have this anti-Islam thing going on here, as if it's an Islam issue.

It's not.

Where is the Outrage against Indian child brides, or Thai child brides, etc? No where. It's this whole "Anti-Islam" bent that's pissing me off.

Here, chew on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage


Just a few bits, also bolded above.

• In parts of Ethiopia and Nigeria, over 50% of girls are married before the age of 15 and some girls are married as young as the age of 7
• In South Africa, there are legal provisions made for respecting the marriage laws of traditional marriages whereby a person might be married as young as 12 for females
• 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India.
• However, Islam does prescribe that a bride or groom must be mature physically (have gone through puberty) and emotionally.
• here are no laws defining the minimum age for marriage in Saudi Arabia, and girls as young as eight years of age can marry

What can we do to fix this?
What makes our opinion that this is wrong, the correct one?
When is "Old Enough" and why?

Can those 3 questions be answered, or is the only answer we're supposed to give is "Damn right, those evil bastards!"?

I completely agree that child abuse should be condemned across the board and we should not focus solely on Islam for it's mistreatment of children. This thread was initially focusse o a child bride in Saudi Arabia. I'm sure that if this thread was about the child sex slave in Thailand or India, or the slave trade in Africa, then Big Don and the like would complain about that also.

This child bride situation is just one more thing that pisses non islamic people off about Islam. Radical Islam is being scrutinized more than any other religion now on all fronts and rightly so. After USS Cole, Cobalt Towers, two US embassies, dozens of beheadings, the London bombings and of course 911. I think people have the right to bash radical Islam. I wouldn't minds as much if Islamic clerics spoke out against such violence, but they don't, and all we hear about from the media is how bad the US is for dunking a few of these idiots upside down in a bath in Guantanamo bay and playing loud hair metal music to torture them. In other words they might as well be living in a frat house in Long Beach.

It's wrong to marry a 8 year old girl off to a middle aged man, period. These people should be brought out of the dark ages.

 

[Cryozombie]

Regardless of my views on the topic, The Issue I have with this entire discussion boils down to this:

I say its wrong and a moral outrage to Eat Cake

You say No, Cake is good, and everyone should have the chance to eat it.

Who the **** are you to decide that for me? Who the **** am I to decide that for you?

When did it EVER become ok to force MY Morals, YOUR morals, or Mohammad's Morals on EVERYONE else. You people come on here spouting the Superiority of the American Freedom while condemming that right to anyone who's morals aren't yours. Despite the fact that I agree with the position on 40 years olds marrying 8 year old children being sick, I find the demand that everyone think and act like you hypocritical and infantile.

Maybe I should declare myself the King of The World and tell you all that you have an obligation to go along with MY beliefs based on how *I* was raised and what *I* was taught was right. Raise your hand if you are gonna listen to me?

Yeah. I didn't think so.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm trying to figure out where this is going. What do these statements about a Christian church have to do with the rightness, wrongness, or otherwise of the 8-year old being married/sold off despite the protest of both the child and the mother?

True, not a lot to do with the OP, Crushing.

It was purely an illustration of the wider issues that have been brought in blaming the religion of the country in question. It was an attempt to show those exhibiting moral outrage based upon their religion, that the foundation they stand on is not as steadfast as they could hope for.

Because nearly all of us posting here have been brought up in a country that can be packeted under the term 'Western', we all tend to share a common moral compass.

Thus, if you asked most people here the direct question "Do you think it is right for a father to pass over his daughter in a promised marriage to a creditor?", I reckon the answer would be a clear "No!". Pretty short thread and not a great deal of shillyshallying around. Some of us might point out that such things have been prevalent throughout history and that our own ancesters didn't see anything wrong in it but even then the answer would probably be "No!" with the conditional clause "in this day and age".

Sadly, because the OP was intended to ferment an opportunity to cut and slash at an 'enemy' faith, the thread was never going to stay focussed on that target for long .

 

[elder999]

but it is nice to know you are ok with forced marraige of children.

Since it didn't happen to me, or my children, or anyone I care about or even know, and since there is no physical consummation-it's largely symbolic and pecuniary-and since the child in question is going to finish her education, maybe try to get a divorce (hell, she could wind up going through with it all in 7 years or so-it's not like she has a lot of other options anyway) and since similar things occur in a variety of cultures that aren't "Islamic" , yeah, I'm more than ok with it.

Be a different story if anyone in question expected her to consummate the marriage any time soon, but it's pretty clear from the story you linked to that they don't.

In the meantime, in many countries, including ours, the Rom (those are "Gypsies") routinely trade teenage women for their "bride price," and FORCE them to marry people they don't necessarily know, never mind "wanting" to marry them. Right and wrong, in the end, don't have anything to do with it-it's part of their culture, and the women usually accquiesce in order to stay part of that culture. It's pretty ******, but there it is-and I'm okay with it, because it doesn't have anything to do with me. I can only begin to try to understand how anyone can think such a thing isn't wrong, but, until I've done that, I'm in no position to judge, direct moral outrage and calumny, condemn, or issue fatwah.

It's a damn shame the Islamic terrorists don't put themselves in the same position, in my opinion. It's just wrong that they're so very certain that they're right. The problem, in the end, isn't what they believe, but their judgement and condemnation of our culture, their looking at how we let women work, and go about with bare arms, and do what they want, and divorce men because they want to, and parade about half naked, and how we all consume alchohol, and foods that aren't halal, and mostly have no God in our lives, and don't pray to Mecca, and support Israel, and support Israel, and support Israel, and to them, all of that is wrong-and something should be done about it......"moral relativism" is a sin to them as well, you see-their absolutism is what flew planes into skyscrapers 8 years ago...

Me, I've been experimenting with the 11th Commandment:

Thou shalt mind thine own business.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

8-year-old girl's marriage ruled legal

Published: April 12, 2009 at 7:40 AM
UPI/CNN EXCERPT:
ONAIZA, Saudi Arabia, April 12 (UPI) -- A Saudi Arabian judge has refused to overturn a ruling that declared the arranged marriage of an 8-year-old girl to a 47-year-old man legal, a relative says.

The judge, Sheikh Habib Habib, ruled for the second time Saturday in Onaiza that the girl's marriage to a friend of her father's was legal and binding. He said the child wife could file for divorce once she reached puberty, CNN reported.END EXCERPT

I do not care if their culture considers this OK. Any culture that condones this is WRONG.
Forcing an eight year old child to marry is WRONG. The father, and the "Husband" should both be shot.

I'm going back to the OP here. Lets summarize.

• Man exchanges his 8yr old daughter to pay a debt.
• Arranged marriages are common here.
• The judge said the child wife could file for divorce once she reached puberty, but this marriage for now is legal. He also said that the mother, who is divorced from the father, was not the legal guardian and therefore could not motion for action.
• An appeals court in Riyadh will consider the case again in a hearing set for next month.
• "Zuhair Harithi of the Saudi Human Rights Commission told CNN child marriages in the country must be fought, saying they "violate international agreements that have been signed by Saudi Arabia and should not be allowed.""

Lets go through these points:

• Man exchanges his 8yr old daughter to pay a debt.

Bad.

• Arranged marriages are common here.

Bad

• The judge said the child wife could file for divorce once she reached puberty, but this marriage for now is legal. He also said that the mother, who is divorced from the father, was not the legal guardian and therefore could not motion for action.

Judge is enforcing their law, some of which are pretty identical to OUR "Good" laws. As the Non-Custodial parent of a child myself, I can tell you that the non-custodial parent has little if any say in what happens to their kids here, in the "good" USA. The Saudi child bride is allowed the option of divorce when she's of age, and it appears it could be granted if that is what she wants then, given her mothers divorced status.

• An appeals court in Riyadh will consider the case again in a hearing set for next month.

The courts there are still working on this matter. This appeal will be the 3rd attempt to nullify the matter. Now, before someone says "It shouldn't take 3 attempts", yeah, I agree with you. Then again it shouldn't take years for US Family Court to decide cases either. Every system has it's flaws.

• "Zuhair Harithi of the Saudi Human Rights Commission told CNN child marriages in the country must be fought, saying they "violate international agreements that have been signed by Saudi Arabia and should not be allowed.""

Looks like the Saudi's themselves are working on fixing this part of their system, that we "good people" find offensive.

So, we have a case where a kid is sold off OR we have a case where a judge is blocking a non-rights holding parent from overstepping their legal limits, while allowing due process and legal recourse to continue.

Of course, taking the time to explore the issue, to see the big picture, to pay attention to particular details, that here is wrong. We are only supposed to be narrow focused, and loudly proclaim how pissed we are.

As I have said, child marriages, arraigned marriages, etc. are all bad to me.
But, I won't blame a faith blindly, nor will I blame a people blindly, without taking the time to examine things in more detail, to better understand them, before working myself up to an purely emotional reaction.

If change is going to come to the Saudi system, it has to come from within. We can proclaim our disgust all we want, but in the end, unless you are going to invade, conquer and convert them, it's their problem.

 

[girlbug2]

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes.

He, too was wrong. Note the bible does not condone his actions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

That said lets look at this part:

I do not care if their culture considers this OK. Any culture that condones this is WRONG.
Forcing an eight year old child to marry is WRONG. The father, and the "Husband" should both be shot.

4 points.

• I do not care if their culture considers this OK.

I do. Because if their culture does consider it ok, then there are also laws covering it, that also need to be brought up, so that we can see exactly how big a deal this is.

• Any culture that condones this is WRONG.

I agree, but who are -we- to decide this?

• Forcing an eight year old child to marry is WRONG.

This is your opinion. It is one I agree with, but that only makes it -our- opinion. It doesn't make it fact or "right". What makes our view of wrongness the correct one?

• The father, and the "Husband" should both be shot.

This is your opinion. You now condone killing, murder here, for a crime (child rape?) that reportedly hasn't happened yet.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

He, too was wrong. Note the bible does not condone his actions.

True. But I'd like to see a quote from the Koran that specifically ok's child marriage and child sex. I find plenty of sex, rape, prostitution, incest etc in the Christian one that looks pretty disgusting to me. Sons sleeping with their mothers, daughters drugging and raping their father, prostitutes given over to rape gangs, etc. Any faith that would be based on that's pretty wrong IMO and it's supporters should be maybe fed to lions while crowds watch and eat free bread. Oh wait, others had that opinion too a while back. Never mind.

 

[Cryozombie]

Any faith that would be based on that's pretty wrong IMO and it's supporters should be maybe fed to lions while crowds watch and eat free bread. Oh wait, others had that opinion too a while back. Never mind.

Well, now, honestly the faith isn't BASED on that, they are stories of things that occurred perhaps, and Im not 100% up on my Bible, but I don't recall it being ok, or even condoned by God...

 

[Twin Fist]

Bob,
YOu asked "where is the outrage over child brodes in india"
I have a problem with forced marraige of a child, WHERE EVER it happens, but this article wasnt about india or thailand. It was about an incident in Saudi. So THAT particular incident is being expressed.

Yeah, I dislike Islam, even if you dont agree, if you cannot understand why i have a problem with it, you aint as smart as I think you are.

Circumcision is....well,i have a feeling most are dont today for reasons other than religious. I am glad my parents got me snipped.

but more importantly, human being have standards, some things are acceptable, some are not. This is entirely natural, and it is a GOOD thing. There is nothing wrong with being judgemental when you hear about something that is WRONG.

Even in prison, there is a stadard of conduct among the prisoners. Even among rapists and thieves, the abusers of children are scum.

maybe we are coded on a genetic level to protect kids, that would make sense from a totally secular standpoint.

But no Bob, we dont have to be perfect to realize that something is wrong.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, now, honestly the faith isn't BASED on that, they are stories of things that occurred perhaps, and Im not 100% up on my Bible, but I don't recall it being ok, or even condoned by God...

Look, if you're going to suggest I actually read it, educate myself on it, maybe ever try to understand it a little before I start ad hom attacking it and blindly flailing at it and it's supporters, then you miss the point of arguing on an internet forum.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob,
YOu asked "where is the outrage over child brodes in india"
I have a problem with forced marraige of a child, WHERE EVER it happens, but this article wasnt about india or thailand. It was about an incident in Saudi. So THAT particular incident is being expressed.

Yeah, I dislike Islam, even if you dont agree, if you cannot understand why i have a problem with it, you aint as smart as I think you are.

Circumcision is....well,i have a feeling most are don't today for reasons other than religious. I am glad my parents got me snipped.

but more importantly, human being have standards, some things are acceptable, some are not. This is entirely natural, and it is a GOOD thing. There is nothing wrong with being judgemental when you hear about something that is WRONG.

Even in prison, there is a stadard of conduct among the prisoners. Even among rapists and thieves, the abusers of children are scum.

maybe we are coded on a genetic level to protect kids, that would make sense from a totally secular standpoint.

But no Bob, we dont have to be perfect to realize that something is wrong.

John,
I recall all the anti-Islam fanfare right around the time the OK Fed. Building was blown to hell. Anyone remember who did that? Yeah, a guy from NY, a -white- guy, a -christian- guy. All these school shootings we hear about? Usually middle class white kids from "good Christian homes". etc. So, despite the fact that a group of primarily Saudi Religious Fanatics hijacked 4 planes and crashed them into some buildings and killed a few thousand people, or blew a hole in a US Navy vessel, or maybe even dragged some of our boys around in the dirt and hung them like sides of meat for all to see....I still refuse to broad-paint a group. Blame the fact that I read a thousand books every year for a decade on that.

Yes, Humans have standards. Saudi's, and Muslims are Human. Remember that.
They have their standards, which they think are fine. We, who have different standards, disagree.

Tell me, who's God is the right one? I want proof, his phone number and an interview appointment.

Please, explain to me -WHY- it is wrong. "Just because" pissed me off when my mother said it, and it pisses me off now. No, strike that. It just annoys me.

Now, to me, yeah it's wrong. But -why- is it wrong?
Because the culture I grew up in, my family, my friends, the faith they shared, and so on, -programmed me- to think it was wrong.

Grow up in an anti semetic family you'll probably hold negative feelings against Jews.
Grow up in an conservative family, you'll probably be against mixed race, mixed religion and/or same sex relationships.

You are programmed to think this. The fact that child molesters are short-lived in prison shows less its wrongness and more the fact that some "right/wrong" programming sunk into even the hardest thugs.

In nature, if it can breed, it's fair game. We place artificial limits on nature, "no sex until 17' even though we're capable at 13. We fight nature, all the time.

And, no, I'm not excusing it, condoning it, etc.

I'm taking the time to understand it, BEFORE I decide it's wrong.

That is the difference in our arguments here my friend.

To you, it's just wrong. Period. No need to explain or expand, it should be plainly simple to anyone with a brain on the "why".
To me, it's wrong, and here's all my reasons why.

I honestly don't think anyone here has said "Yes, it's ok to marry a child to an old fart." I think we're all in agreement, we think it's wrong.

Everything else is just explanation, exposition, and what not.

(Added)
Though, there is something to the idea that we're genetically attuned to protect kids.

 

[Twin Fist]

and therein lies the issue, at least MY issue anyway.

WHY does anyone need to add on an "explanation, exposition, and what not."???

Why the need to add conditional modifiers?

Why not just say "thats wrong"?

Now, just to show that my knee wasnt jerking, wanna guess why i objected to this particular case?

If it was an arranged marraige between two 8 year olds, i wouldnt mind that much, since arranged marraige, while not for me, isnt essentially bad.

it was the fact that 8 year old was more or less SOLD to a 47 year old dude.

And hey, i like to dog on christianity just as much as I do any other group. Catholics in particular, i love asking them how they feel about what happened to the Aztecs.....

 

[celtic_crippler]

Raise your hand if you support child molestation....anyone? Didn't think so.

There's obviously cultural and ethical differences between our two societies; however, applying logic and reason I can find no acceptable excuse to support the "selling" of one human being to another. Especially when it results in violating what should be considered the basic rights of a child who lacks the emotional, not to mention physical, development to fullfill the role of a "wife."

No matter how many ways you look at this; it is wrong.

...but what can be done? Diplomatic pressure? Doubtful that would work or even be worth the effort to our government.

Physical force? By who? You gonna hire a merc team to go in and rescue her? If you did who's to say she wouldn't be pissed? She is a product of that society after all and may actually accept her circumstances!! Besides, do you have the money to hire them? I don't.....

So....what's the plan?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My plan is to argue more protection here, and let the Saudi's sort it out themselves.

 

[celtic_crippler]

My plan is to argue more protection here, and let the Saudi's sort it out themselves.

...I don't know....

Do you think a country-sized sheet of glass would be a cool landmark? Ya know...kinda like the Great Wall or the Pyramids...

That would probably reflect heat really bad though, and contribute to global warming....

Oh well...so much for that plan. :moon:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'll let Al Gore handle the global warming issue.