That sounds pretty intense, can you share the details?
5 year old black belts?
- Thread starter Calhoun
- Start date
That sounds pretty intense, can you share the details?
Absolutely notthey are paper BB and that is all.
But as always, I've seen people test for 1st Dan who I would never pass, and people test for 1st Dan after 2-3 years training who quite good. Think of it like military basic training. You get a certain time frame to prove yourself worthy of earning black belt. You get 8 weeks (I think) to prove you deserve to advance in the military. If basic training had no time limit, there'd be no motivation to pass. Undoubtably Taekwondo's military background (for Chung Do Kwan anyway) influenced this way of thinking.
And keep in mind, all 1st Dan testing is is a validation of your ability to do basics. You're not expected to be an expert.
And keep in mind, all 1st Dan testing is is a validation of your ability to do basics. You're not expected to be an expert.
Absolutely. And I do not think that that was, by any means, the toughest blackbelt test out there either.
Daniel
For one, the test was long, over three hours, though I understand that some schools first dan grading is four or more. The testees were required to write an essay. Not a couple of paragraphs, but an honest to goodness essay on taekwondo. The physical portion of the test involved intese warmups; 100 push ups, 100 crunches, squats (don't remember how many, but it wasn't 100), jumping jacks, plus gobs of stretching. The pushups had to be correct, the crunches had to be actual crunches; not rocking back and forth with their legs up like a lot of five to ten year olds try to get away with, and the squats had to be done with the student's back reasonably straight.
Just on the basis of the warmups alone, no five to ten year old that I have seen would be able to pass, and that is just the warm up. You weren't graded on the warmup, but you were expected to do it all and do it correctly and cleanly.
All eight forms had to be done correctly, with power, and cleanly. Small details were noted and students were dinged if their fine detail was less than expected.
All techniques were gone over, and once again, had to be done correctly and cleanly, with power and control. Two step sparring, combinations of kicks, blocks, and punches were also part of this.
Lastly, the students had to do 300 punches and 500 kicks; 50 right side kicks, 50 left, 50 each of straight axe kicks, 50 in to out and 50 out to in, 50 each left and right side kicks, 50 each left and right front kicks, and 50 roundhouse kicks, alternating left to right.
After that was breaking. Each student had to break multiple boards, culminating in a triple board break.
Lastly, each testee had to spar two minutes each with four different blackbelt students with no rest in between. This was not relaxed sparring, but 'you're in the olympics and the gold for the US is riding on your shoulders' sparring. We were not a WTF school and wore headgear, gloves, insteps and cups for the gents.
Not everyone passed first time out. It was a tough test, but I have heard of tougher ones. Personally, I don't think that it needs to be any tougher than this, but I know that there are schools that have four hour long tests that are more challenging.
My kumdo Ildan test was similarly long and physically demanding. We had to do a one page essay, rather light in my opinion, but we had to read it aloud. Warmups were pyramids (10 each jumping jacks, pushups, situps, then 9, then 8, etc.), stretching.
That was followed by demonstrating each and every technique, both individually and in combinations, two step sparring, Yong Geum (Ji Geiko if you're kendo as opposed to kumdo), which is nine head shots and nine blocks moving forward and back with different partners, each student required to do offense then defense with each partner. Each strike had to have a loud ki-op and a strong stomp. Each strike had to be a correctly executed, full head shot, not a quick snap.
From here, the students had to d san dan sae (I think I spelled it right); 100 rapid steps each of muh-ri (head), left right alternating muh-ri (wrist), son mok, and left right alternating huh-ri (waist).
After all that, we were required to do our eight geub rank hyung. This had to be correct, precise, and with attention to detail. The fact that we were tired from the previous portions of the test did not matter.
The last portion was sparring. We had to spar for five minutes straight, no break in between (well, 15 seconds or so) five opponents; two high colored belts; red and black tip, then two blackbelt students, and then Master Choi, a 5th dan kumdoin. Once again, this was not easygoing sparring. If you've ever worn a kumdo hogu and a kumdo dobok, then you know that it is not as light as the taekwondo hogu nor as cool as the taekwondo dobok.
One student in my grading was benched by Grandmaster; we were afraid that he was having a heart attack, and while he wasn't, he probably would have if he had continued.
When my older son took the same kumdo test, four of his friends came, all of whom take some martial art, one of whom is a blackbelt. All of them said that the test was "insane" and the one blackbelt said that none of the blackbelts, kids or adults, at his school could have gotten through that test simply due to the intensity and the stamina required.
Yes, I would question the sanity and fitness of any parent who would put a school age child though either of those tests. Any instructor who would do so probably should not be working with young kids.
Daniel
My school doesn't even take students unless they are that old. I've been practicing TKD for over 18 months and I'm just now a brown belt third temporary. It will be at least another 18 months before I get a chance to look at testing for BB. My instructor only allows those who see feels are are to test to test. I've been told stories about how the belt ranks were changed because once you became a brown belt then as you passed each test you would get a piece of black electrical tape added to your brown belt after 6 pieces you tested for tempoary black (Red on top of Black) after another 6 months you could go for first dan but you couldn't go if you are 16. The age is the same but now we have three different brown belt levels and three different red belt levels because people got upset that little Johnny was only getting a hand shake. We do test every 2 months (use to be 3) but you only test when you think you are ready and the instructor approves. I personally have pulled myself from a test because i knew I wasn't ready.
Frankly, I agree regarding pushups at testings, but I've been at three schools that have the testees do them as part of the warmup for the test. But I'm not the man in charge.
Daniel
Daniel
A 5 year old Black Belt? LOL !
A buddy of mine I haven't seen in a long time (he has no Martial Arts experience himself) told me proudly that his 8 year old son will be testing for his Black Belt in August. He told me this despite knowing my feelings on the subject. Hearing this I LOL and told him I'm happy for them.
I already told my two boys (7 and 9, both currently orange belts in Kenpo) that if they stay with it and continue to work hard they can have their Black Belts on their 18th birthdays.
Yeah, I know my attitude sucks...
A buddy of mine I haven't seen in a long time (he has no Martial Arts experience himself) told me proudly that his 8 year old son will be testing for his Black Belt in August. He told me this despite knowing my feelings on the subject. Hearing this I LOL and told him I'm happy for them.
I already told my two boys (7 and 9, both currently orange belts in Kenpo) that if they stay with it and continue to work hard they can have their Black Belts on their 18th birthdays.
Yeah, I know my attitude sucks...
It may be to simulate a situation in which they're stressed/tired, in which case I understand; otherwise, no, I don't get it.
Gizmo
Yellow Belt
Sadly, things start to change here as well, and there are some instructors concerned more with having high grades than high level of skill among their students. Generally speaking, however, around 5 years is considered a minimum for 1st Dan. Two of my students tested for 1st Dans this year after 7 and 8 years of training, respectively.
Most people here are rather surprised to hear that it's possible to make a BB in two years... and the youngest TKD 1st Dans/Pooms I saw here were around 10-11 years old, which I personally think is still too early.
While I think 5 is a little young, we have a girl at our dojang who reached junior BB (poom) at 6. She was amazing, knew all of her forms beautifully, and could even break with ease even though she is tiny. I believe she started at 3.
As far as not knowing poomse at 3 years old, it depends on the child. My daughter is 3 and earned her yellow belt after about 6 months (she goes about 4 days/week). She certainly has her 'off' days, she drives her instructors crazy, but knows her poomse 1, several different kicks (not so great with the self defense) and other dojang-specific things that they require (school rules, etc.). I wouldn't have a problem with our Grandmaster giving her a BB at 6 if she continues the way she is going.
5 years old? Possible, but quite the exception.
As far as not knowing poomse at 3 years old, it depends on the child. My daughter is 3 and earned her yellow belt after about 6 months (she goes about 4 days/week). She certainly has her 'off' days, she drives her instructors crazy, but knows her poomse 1, several different kicks (not so great with the self defense) and other dojang-specific things that they require (school rules, etc.). I wouldn't have a problem with our Grandmaster giving her a BB at 6 if she continues the way she is going.
5 years old? Possible, but quite the exception.
Sorry no dis-respect to you or anybody else five and six and even seven can not possilfly know there poomsae's, maybe the movements but to say they know them is a joke. Can they go over and explain every single tech withen said poomsae? Can they even do all the require kick no maybe roundhouse and some other basics but not quality kicks like a BB should do. I can see 10-15 being pooms Junior BB with having say five years or more of training but a three year old student turning six as a BB no way not even my own sons who have been training with me since they caould walk got there untl they was 8 and that was a poom or junior BB and after training 5-6 days every week.
Thank you and have a great day.
I once had a 4 year old student that could remember any form that you showed her the very first time she saw it. That doesn't mean that she really understood what she was doing. BB means far more than just doing forms.
I teach a class of children aged 4-7, the Little Dragons, they don't grade and they don't do kata, far too young. What they do is prepare for the childrens class by learning basic moves,understand stranger danger ( they aren't taught they can defend themselves as they can't but are taught age appropriate skills) and how to behave in class, most of all they have fun while improving their co-ordination and motor skills. I know many think children shouldn't start martial arts so young but it's a prep class. I don't believe there should be any stress on them grading or having to learn patterns/katas they can't understand, I won't teach kata without Bunkai not even to children. I could teach them loads of stuff but why? They'd be only going through the motions not understanding it and probably getting very bored. As it is they look forward to going to the big class when they are ready and can start the amazing journey that is martial arts.
The one thing they do really well and I hate them for it LOL is breakfall. They do it so easily, it's a natural thing for them as is rudimentary Judo.
I confess... I'm jealous of four year olds!!
The one thing they do really well and I hate them for it LOL is breakfall. They do it so easily, it's a natural thing for them as is rudimentary Judo.
I confess... I'm jealous of four year olds!!
ihraxhunnie
White Belt
i don't agree with hardly anyone earning a black belt in 2-3 years. i started at 3, got rising young star 2 years in a row and still didn't earn my black belt, honors until i was 10. i look at other 10 year olds with a bb and don't always agree with it either. after that i decided i needed to wait a while to get my 2nd dan - 6 years actually.
anyways - i hate going to tournaments and seeing the ranking divisions for 6u bb's. i think it is absolutely ridiculous. although a very talented few 6 and 7 year olds can know the moves and maybe excute them beautifully, being a black belt is more than the moves - it's a mental state also and there is no way a kindergartener or first grader can obtain thatmental state of maturity - otherwise they'd be a seven year old high schooler or buisness manager.
my school has never awarded a bb to anyone under 13 except for me. i find it difficult to see anyone under 10 at all. ever. i find it crazy. extremely.
anyways - i hate going to tournaments and seeing the ranking divisions for 6u bb's. i think it is absolutely ridiculous. although a very talented few 6 and 7 year olds can know the moves and maybe excute them beautifully, being a black belt is more than the moves - it's a mental state also and there is no way a kindergartener or first grader can obtain thatmental state of maturity - otherwise they'd be a seven year old high schooler or buisness manager.
my school has never awarded a bb to anyone under 13 except for me. i find it difficult to see anyone under 10 at all. ever. i find it crazy. extremely.
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