2000 and counting...

[Tkang_TKD]

They saw eye to eye alright! They hated Americans. In America you have the right to worship any invisible being you choose. Radical Islam will never accept that sort of freedom!

So do you think that Iraq (or any other middle eastern country) will ever embrace Democracy? Personally, I don't think they can, because there is just so much about Democracy, and freedom that those people are not willing to embrace right now.

But then again, once the Taliban was no longer in power in Afhghanistan, some freedoms were enjoyed (particularly by women), that were previously not in place.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

They should become a Constitutional Republic! The hell with democracy! If you don't agree, ask the founding fathers & mothers of America!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Heck, lets send them our Constitution. It's worked for about 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

That is a very astute observation Kaith!

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Heck, lets send them our Constitution. It's worked for about 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.

Touche'

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

I would not count out our Constitution yet! Nor the American people. There are those who think Americans are just sheep and cannot smell the wolf! In a way they may be correct! But there are too many sheepdogs and we have the watch!

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Ronald! Is it impossible for you to post without exclamation marks and smiley faces? You really ought to try something different! Its getting old! Smiley faces and exhortations to kill people are incongruous!

We are a democratic republic. To say we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy is inaccurate. In modern lexicons "republic" and "democracy" are generally considered synonymous. The first time I heard that "we're a republic, not a democracy" line was at a John Birch meeting (and no...most of you can guess I'm not a Bircher nor have I been).

Spouting this is a meaningless distraction meant to give people a false sense they actually know something about our government. It also minimizes the word "democrat" and elevates the word "republican". Those that buy into it tend to have a pretty dismal knowledge of American history.

Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
Function: noun

1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

2 : a political unit that has a democratic government —dem·o·crat·ic /"de-m&-'kra-tik/ adjective —dem·o·crat·i·cal·ly adverb


Regards,


Steve

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

Forgive me. I mean no offense. I am not a Republican. Nor am I a Democrat. I am a Democratic Republican.

I was using the emoticons for the fun of it. I did not mean to displease anyone. I just think that the minority should be protected from the majority. I think that is why a Constitutional Republic was invented. I will not argue semantics.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ronald,
I tend to agree. Unfortunately, I don't believe thats been true since the 1860's.
Different thread however, for that debate.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

You are quite right Kaith. But how many people know what a Democratic Republican truly is?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I just think that the minority should be protected from the majority.
I think that is why a Constitutional Republic was invented.

Well, I look forward to seeing you weigh in on the sides of gays and other minorities in other threads.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

Hardheadjarhead, What ever do you mean?

 

[Phoenix44]

They saw eye to eye alright! They hated Americans. In America you have the right to worship any invisible being you choose. Radical Islam will never accept that sort of freedom!

Actually, Saddam and Bin Laden did not see eye to eye. Bin Laden hated Saddam's secular government, and Saddam would never allow an ego like Bin Laden to operate under his dictatorship. They could not co-exist. And there was no Iraq-originated anti-American terrorism since the early 90s. Now Iraq is in total chaos, and it's Terror Central.

In fact, right about now, EVERYONE hates America. What's your suggestion? Invade the entire world?

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

Phoenix44, They hate us because we are free! I suggest to hold on until their society aborts. Just like the Soviet Union.

 

[PeachMonkey]

Phoenix44, They hate us because we are free!

I do hope you're being sarcastic.

I was under the notion that no one actually believed this particular load of crap.

 

[Flatlander]

Likely because American foreign policy in the middle east has been all about destabilizing, undermining, and talking out both sides of the mouth, all while doing everything under the sun to prop up Israel, who they percieve as being land thieves. They could care less if you're free.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Reasons why they (arabs in the mid east) hate the US?

Different values (the whole christian/islam thing)
US military bases in the Holy Land (sacrilige)
US continued backing of Israel (Who is a police state, and regularly engages in it's own atrocities, as well as defys UN and international laws)
US two facedness (we flip flop on who we support. Remember, we sold Sadamn those WMD we now can't find...)
Just plain spoiling for a fight.

It's not about Freedom. They like their own versions well enough. We, to them are the corrupt ones.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Phoenix44, They hate us because we are free! I suggest to hold on until their society aborts. Just like the Soviet Union.

If we continue to dump money into "Liberating and Rebuilding" Iraq, I could see a future very similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

[PeachMonkey]

More exciting reasons why the US is hated:

-- The fact that we support repressive regimes while claiming to support "democracy"
-- The imposition of "democracy" only on our own terms
-- Oh, and there's that little matter of a long history of Western imperialism in the region. Nearly every nation in the region was arbitrarily created by Westerners when they pulled out after milking the region as a series of colonies, inherited from the Turks after the First World War.

Let's not let any of the history, or facts, get in our way of self-righteousness, though. Saying "They hate us cause we're free" is a great way to distract people from the actual issues, and contributes to continuing the cycles of bloodshed, mistrust, and hatred (and profit!).

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

You are right PeachMonkey and I am wrong. I think I was looking at this with a shallow point of view. Thanks to all of you.

A new perspective is what I've gained. I should have known about Western Culture.

I also promise never to use the emoticons again. Or an exclamation point.