Iran Would Be Hell for Attackers

[rmcrobertson]

Yeaah, that was my fave part too....Kelly le Brock, lips pooched forth, breathing, "Mason Storm!" at the man Gene le Bell choked out. Or at least it was in a close tie with the extended shot of a noble white horse, running free, that followed their crashing through fences and running away in the poor bastard doctor's jeep...

Another good Dan Quayle sighting is, I swear, in, "They Live!" with Rowdy Roddy Piper looking at a TV screen at a politician who at first looks eerily familiar and is then (while speechifying about it being morning in America..."We've done away with the tired old negativism...") revealed to be a nasty-faced alien...

Rowdy shakes his head, sighs, and says, "You just knew it'd be SOMETHING like this."

But good to know that nobody but Americans is allowed to be patriotic...even if all countries are granfalloons anyway.

 

[psi_radar]

Yeaah, that was my fave part too....Kelly le Brock, lips pooched forth, breathing, "Mason Storm!" at the man Gene le Bell choked out. Or at least it was in a close tie with the extended shot of a noble white horse, running free, that followed their crashing through fences and running away in the poor bastard doctor's jeep...

Another good Dan Quayle sighting is, I swear, in, "They Live!" with Rowdy Roddy Piper looking at a TV screen at a politician who at first looks eerily familiar and is then (while speechifying about it being morning in America..."We've done away with the tired old negativism...") revealed to be a nasty-faced alien...

Rowdy shakes his head, sighs, and says, "You just knew it'd be SOMETHING like this."

But good to know that nobody but Americans is allowed to be patriotic...even if all countries are granfalloons anyway.

The world would be a better place if everyone traveled more and made an effort to recognize our similarities rather than differences. And Kurt Vonnegut should be required reading for all world leaders. Especially Kat's Kradle.

 

[psi_radar]

Got knocked in rep again by an <Post Edited by Moderator Staff for Langauge>

Here's the remark that went with the ding: "Have you forgotten saddam?,"
Apparently this is in response to omitting Saddam as among those I considered potential threats to the U.S. I get tired of saying this, but Saddam was not part of 9/11, and at the start of the war Iraq did not have WMDs and posed no or very little threat to us. The War in Iraq should not be considered part of the so-called "War on Terror." Its inclusion as such is a deliberate and continuing deception on the part of our administration to justify this war, and the press eats it up.

So there, ya nutless wonder. Do some research. Read the links upnorthkyosa posted on the PNAC. Turn off the propaganda, connect the dots and see the world around you for what it actually is.

To all else, sorry for the rant.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Iran is a place that will never evolve. It is culturally stagnant and hostile.

"I say we nuke the site form orbit... only way to be sure."

:redeme:

 

[Flatlander]

Iran is a place that will never evolve. It is culturally stagnant and hostile.

"I say we nuke the site form orbit... only way to be sure."

Apparently, your civility and grasp of compassion wither in comparison to your understanding of Iran, its history, and its people.

 

[Makalakumu]

Apparently, your civility and grasp of compassion wither in comparison to your understanding of Iran, its history, and its people.

Oh, and then there are the racist overtones inherit in describing a people as culturally and evolutionarliy stagnant.

I imagine that being culturally and evolutionarily stagnant is a perfect reason to be forcefully reformed.

Wait a minute, did I just paraphrase Rush?

 

[Blind]

Got knocked in rep again by an <Post Edited by Moderator Staff for Langauge>

QUOTE]

Chin up!! When I get the ability to add rep points they will all come back to you, don't dwell too much on the people who can't actually look objectively at things it's not their fault, I don't think people will ever forget Saddam, nor the way this middle east fiasco was started, make war on a country to get a few terrorists...rediculous, anyone would think the National gaurd should have been called out to protect American rights after all the home grown terrorism, anyone remember the Oklahoma bombing? Columbine?

Apologies for thread drift.

 

[psi_radar]

Iran is a place that will never evolve. It is culturally stagnant and hostile.

"I say we nuke the site form orbit... only way to be sure."

:redeme:

Does "evolving" mean having a strip mall around every corner? Why does it drive us crazy that other countries don't willingly adopt our model of government and culture? Honestly, if you look at our culture from an external perspective, it's not all that attractive.

As for turning the whole place into a parking lot, well, the ultimate revenge on the middle east would be to explore alternative means of energy other than fossil fuels. Harvesting methane from our own waste products comes to mind, as does wind power and current-powered sea turbines. But, I guess we shouldn't even THINK about things that progressive. After all, some of us need to make money.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Well.. I thought it was funny. Living in our "modern" America, I'm sure one would instantly assume racism, and lack of knowledge in regards to the history and culture of Iran. My little joke brought out the exact responses I expected. Many people would assume that culture=skin color, I am not one of them. I suggest more library time and less LA Times. The hostility of the Arab cultures towards those "Western" nations stems from the Crusades to our funding of US friendly despots that would sell us oil. Our abandoning our Mujahadeen friends to the Soviets didnt help either. The schooling of the areas populace in nothing other than the Koran has only recently become a way to recruit terrorists. The Iranian people were light years ahead of the Europeans in math and science. The burning of the Library at Alexandreta, in my opinion set humanity back thousands of years. In short, the Western world had a large part in the development of Irans and the Arab worlds hostility towards outsiders.

The stagnation of cultural evolution, in my opinion, comes from the loss of those Iranians who know better. The Doctors, Scientists, Entrepenuers of the area have left for the west, or have died in the many wars of the area.
"A whole generation lost" covers it pretty well. What remains is a large population that is being taught that their lives mean nothing (they do), to die fighting is all they can hope for, and trust nobody who isn't a follower of Islamic law.

Thus leaving a hostile and stagnent culture. So how do we resolve this. A creation of a cheap and abundant energy source, and peacefull fostering of freely elected governments.

I dont believe this will happen in my life time, or in the next 500 years. Sad, but, the human animal is slow to trust, and quick to distrust. I hope I'm wrong, but I do see this all ending in war.

But in the mean time please give some thought before the knee-jerk reaction kicks in.:asian:

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Honestly, if you look at our culture from an external perspective, it's not all that attractive.

This is perhaps the saddest comment I have ever read. The only light of hope in it is: Who's external perspective?

I'd like to say more but, I'm at a loss....

 

[psi_radar]

This is perhaps the saddest comment I have ever read. The only light of hope in it is: Who's external perspective?

I'd like to say more but, I'm at a loss....

Whose external perspective? Those who we have deemed "inferior" cultures--so inferior that for some reason, they need to be "reformed"--or bombed, right? I just read your previous post, and I generally agree with it. Our (meaning Europeans as well as Americans) involvement in the middle east has indeed screwed up that entire culture. Which is why there's some backlash now.

Every culture has its right to self-determination. Who are we to say our system is better? If the Iranians want something different, well, they can determine that for themselves. And interestingly, our focus hasn't been on them until very recently, when we are building 14 permanent bases next door. Have any kids that could be drafted in the next 10 years? I do.

Haven't we learned anything? We preach tolerance at home, but our foreign policy dictates everyone must enjoy the same flavors of government that we have here. Is our lifestyle so great that all must adopt it? The average American carries $8,000+ in credit card debt. In most regions, both spouses need to work to support the acceptable lifestyle, leaving our children in care of others. In 1970, the average college professor made $6,000 a year, could pay a mortgage, have a family car, and mothers could easily stay at home with the kids until they went to school. Most of the businesses I frequented were owned by individuals, not corporations.

No longer. We work harder, longer, and get less for our money than ever before. I work in an international company, and definitely, all the internationals love americans and the country itself, but they to a person aren't too crazy about the government or our culture. I love my country, but I can see why others wouldn't. So why would they want it shoved down their throats? They need more Brittany Spears?

We look like cheap, gai-jin, yankee bullies. We should lead by example, not by force. And if we had any sense, we'd start protecting ourselves at home rather than overextending ourselves abroad.

"yee-hah!" is NOT a foreign policy.

 

[psi_radar]

And by the way, gray phoenix, if you want to have an intelligent discussion, go about it straightforwardly rather than trying to be obtuse and elicit reactions. If you want to be manipulative, that's your own perogative, but when you go over the top, you get like in kind--and it doesn't reflect well on you. :asian:

 

[Schtankybampo]

No, our culture isn't perfect, and please believe that I have given this some thought; but what culture is? ANY culture, viewed with enough distance, has distasteful properties to some. Having viewed my options, however, thanks, I'll stick with it. At least we're allowed to complain, stomp, moan, and voice our dissatisfaction with the status quo.

While I may or may not agree with Nuking the Middle East into the next century, I agree with Gray's point (I think) --I'm tired of sending my friends and loved ones into a war-riddled country for an agenda that I'm not privy to.

 

[Makalakumu]

Well.. I thought it was funny. Living in our "modern" America, I'm sure one would instantly assume racism, and lack of knowledge in regards to the history and culture of Iran. My little joke brought out the exact responses I expected.

You are damn right it did, because people who happen to be bigots say exactly the same things you did. Here is a little snippet of a song from a band that many neo-nazi skinhead worship...

F*** the middle east.
There's too many g***s.
They hijack our planes
and raise the oil prices.
Lets kill them all
and have a ball
and end the ********** crisis.

I don't find anything resembling this funny.

Flip on the radio. Millions of dollars being spent to spread messages like both of the above in order to justify our current actions. Michael Savage said this the other day, "We need to turn that place into a glass garden." He also says stuff like, "We need to intern all Muslim Americans." Mr. Savage heads an organization called the Paul Revere Society. This organization basically worships everything Mr. Savage says and it has 10 million members.

51% (give or take a little election fraud) is all it takes...

Many people would assume that culture=skin color, I am not one of them. I suggest more library time and less LA Times.

I agree that they do not always equate, but neither do they always separate. In the Iranian example, culture and race are not separated. Perhaps a little more Cornell West and a little less Pat Buchanen would be advised.

The hostility of the Arab cultures towards those "Western" nations stems from the Crusades to our funding of US friendly despots that would sell us oil. Our abandoning our Mujahadeen friends to the Soviets didnt help either.

You are on the right track here.

The schooling of the areas populace in nothing other than the Koran has only recently become a way to recruit terrorists.

I would say that the before mentioned "economic and political screwing" has more to do with terrorism then religious fundamentalism.

The Iranian people were light years ahead of the Europeans in math and science. The burning of the Library at Alexandreta, in my opinion set humanity back thousands of years. In short, the Western world had a large part in the development of Irans and the Arab worlds hostility towards outsiders.

I agree.

The stagnation of cultural evolution, in my opinion, comes from the loss of those Iranians who know better. The Doctors, Scientists, Entrepenuers of the area have left for the west, or have died in the many wars of the area. "A whole generation lost" covers it pretty well. What remains is a large population that is being taught that their lives mean nothing (they do), to die fighting is all they can hope for, and trust nobody who isn't a follower of Islamic law.

My feeling is that relgious fundamentalism/terrorism are both reactions to the things that have taken place in the recent past. When a theocracy goes to war, religion becomes a weapon. The religion doesn't make the war though.

Thus leaving a hostile and stagnent culture. So how do we resolve this. A creation of a cheap and abundant energy source, and peacefull fostering of freely elected governments.

Allow me to paraphrase, the teaching fundamentalist Islam to a large uneducated population is what is causing the current problems..."the hostile and stagnant culture..."

You are missing your own point. Our support of nasty dictators, our domination of their resources, and our tacit support of large populations living in misery and poverty has more to do with the current situation then religion. Fundamentalist Islam is a reaction, not the cause.

I dont believe this will happen in my life time, or in the next 500 years. Sad, but, the human animal is slow to trust, and quick to distrust. I hope I'm wrong, but I do see this all ending in war.

I don't think we need to have a single troop on the ground in the middle east. We already have the technology we need to become totally energy independent. As long as we put oil men in the White House, we will get war, though.

In my opinion, rather then spending money on bombing the crap out of little kids, we could spend money on building the economies of the region so that every person who lives in that country could benefit off of their natural resources.

If something like this happened, we would cease to be "the great satan" real quick.

But in the mean time please give some thought before the knee-jerk reaction kicks in.:asian:

It sounds like you wanted to elicit that type of reaction. You got what you asked for.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Here is a little snippet of a song from a band that many neo-nazi skinhead worship...

Nice. When considering our own society, I recognize the fringe, but I dont necessarily live my life steaming over it. Especially, when I ignore the fringe in other places that is activley seeking to kill me. Yes we have neo *fill in the blank* that promote lots of things. Dont forget them, but dont give them any press by focusing attention on them. Mr. Savage has the full right to promote whatever he wants. As does Rush, anybody else that can put on a cute uniform and call himself "Dear Leader". There will has always been election fraud, get used to it. It aint goin' away. You cant tell me there are any less left wingnuts than on the right either. Its just for the last 2 elections one voted more.

I agree that they do not always equate, but neither do they always separate. In the Iranian example, culture and race are not separated. Perhaps a little more Cornell West and a little less Pat Buchanen would be advised.

Pat Buchanen:rofl: he has about as much influence as a stubbed toe. The only time he gets any press is when he loses yet another election.
Cornel West is monster biggot in his own right. Racism exists regardless of skin color. Although the overflowing social guilt of the bleeding heart Marxist doesnt see it.

So now that we agree the middle east is powder keg lit up by western cultures, I suppose we should let them take their swings. I know there exists a large group of people that would like think 9/11 was our fault. To a degree it was. So now we have multiple wrongs. I dont see right way out. I believe the situation is beyond repair, and our only choice is to protect ourselves.

I would say that the before mentioned "economic and political screwing" has more to do with terrorism then religious fundamentalism.

Agreed but that car is built. The religious zealots are putting gas in it.

The religion doesn't make the war though.

Tell that to the families of those who have died at the end of a Knights sword, or someone sending a 12 year old with a suicide bomb to scream Allah Ackbar at the moment it goes off in a deli.

You are missing your own point. Our support of nasty dictators, our domination of their resources, and our tacit support of large populations living in misery and poverty has more to do with the current situation then religion. Fundamentalist Islam is a reaction, not the cause.

My point is: the cause has become irrelevant. The answer is not throwing good money after bad either.
If the technology to replace oil exists, in a land of entrepenuers why is there not someone making billions off of it. Answer: the replacement is not good enough or cheap enough to sell it.

It sounds like you wanted to elicit that type of reaction. You got what you asked for.

I got the expected reaction, not the one I wanted. I had hoped for, "What did you mean by that?" Not implications of racism.

I dont mean to offend. I have enjoyed our discussion.