Youth Black Belts

[terryl965]

Hey neighbor! I know you weren't, it's the other low life vultures here that would. No offense to the high life vultures.

I guess that this is directed to me, so I will note this in the file and reply... I know all the biggest GM in the industry and they respect me. I know your GM and he is a great guy and wish he would be the one talking and not go between like it has been. TKD_Father remember we can never be liked by all but we can earn each other respect. Hopefully in time we will learn to respect each other.

 

[mwd0818]

I do and am. My son and I are both going up for our black belts in Shorei on the 15th of August (well mine is adult and his is Jr....the only difference between our tests is about 2 hours.)

We have had a few parents join later after their kid was moving up in rank. Funny thing is that parents who do that tend to zip through the first belts pretty quickly because they have been working with their kid for so long on their stuff.

Congratulations!

Good luck with it, although luck never has anything to do with training - it's hard work and time.

 

[TKD_Father]

I guess that this is directed to me, so I will note this in the file and reply...

That was not directed at anyone in particular. I hope you don't feel as though it is... I'll tell you in all honesty, the remark was not meant for you.

My point with that is - there are people here who don't care at all about the issue, they simply post in order to get a "raise" out of someone.

I've learned some things here, taught by you and others.

Do NOT under any circumstances divulge personal information. It becomes a target.

Do NOT respond to attacks or anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this board. Notify the moderator and let them handle it.

The Ignore feature is awesome, which you are not on btw

I learned to research... learn more about the person who is posting to try to understand more of where they are coming from. Which means "considering the source".

I learned that the requirements my son met are not unlike other school's requirements - Thanks to Daniel.

I know your GM and he is a great guy and wish he would be the one talking and not go between like it has been.
You must know his reputation then as well.

 

[miguksaram]

Congratulations!

Good luck with it, although luck never has anything to do with training - it's hard work and time.

Thank you. This is the first time I have been nervous about a test since my tangsoodo bb test back in 1988. That was the last one, in my opinoin that I had to really work for. This one is going to be a mental and physical beat down to say the least.

Like I have been telling people, test is August 15th, my memorial/funeral services will be Aug 16th...This is a BYOB service.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Do NOT under any circumstances divulge personal information. It becomes a target.

Do NOT respond to attacks or anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this board. Notify the moderator and let them handle it.

Actually, there are a ton of other reasons not to divulge too much personal information that has nothing to do with disagreements on the web. Not the least of which would be advertising to the world where you and your son are in the evenings. People with zero interest in the martial arts and a high interest in nefarious activity lurk on a multitude of sites, including this one I would gather.

As for attacks in general: if you feel that something may be an attack, it is generally best to feel out the other person. If it proves to be an attack, it is best to try to settle it peacably. More often than not, people find that they are talking past one another and the issue is resolved.

If it cannot be resolved by merely pressing ignore, or if it violates the forum rules, then by all means, go to the mods. Protracted arguements seldom go anywhere productive.

In any case, congrats on passing your baptism of fire. Kiddie belts is a very hot topic and it is a brave person who steps into it.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

TKD_Father sorry if I took it the wrong way :asian:, I am abig enough person to apologies in front of my peers and other TKD'ers.

Sometimes one cannot express there self ina way that is becoming of there rank and that is me. I tend to wear my emotion on my sleeve alot of the time. In my area the DFW area there are more TKD school than anything else and the majority are belt factory and that has brought my feeling higher then alot of the time. I have lost alot of student to these so called schools over the years with them promoting them to a higher rank and for them to only come back to me a couple of years later when they have figured out they was jsut buying a rank. My gaurd is always up there, since I know your GM and I know he is a up standing guy in the TKD community my tone came down somewhat. Termology means alot to me and when it is not done right it upset me a little as you and everyone can tell. I have been on this board as a Mentor, Moderator, Senior Mod and an advisor at one time or another so I to tend to just say stuff and then figure out what I was going to say later. I am hoping and glad you have decided to stay here with the community and be a contribitor, I believe in time you will learn to love this place and thos eof us that are always here. I can see where some of the things I said could be taken the wrong way by someone that really does not know me.

I know we have some of the best people here to answer and help people with the right direction in the art as well as the sport. Hope you can forgive a old fool and a wonderful Ultimate Post Whore extrememe!!

 

[Twin Fist]

The thing that we disagree on is that one should not diminish the other….but based on your own statements this is your role on Martial Arts Talk…You do a very good job!!!

the thing is, person might get into TKD to do the sport side of it.

thats fine, not for me, but thats fine.

but the thing is, they shouldnt get rank, not in TKD.

TKD is about self defense

it is not a sport

it is not so little johnny can feel good about himself

it is about the systematic and remorseless destruction of another human being.

everything else is a fringe benefit

the character building? the self control? fringe benefits

and when someone claims their sport "black belt" is the equal to my TKD black belt, i get a little annoyed.

10 year olds? they aint black belts

2 year black belts? they aint black belts

and i aint shy about saying so

 

[Gorilla]

Twin Fist,
"it is about the systematic and remorseless destruction of another human being".

Maybe this is your tenet and I can respect the way you use it. I think that this is tenet of a Martial Art which is in fact a Military Art. It is what TKD can be used for as it is taught in the military (Korea).

I think that most would agree that your tenet is not widely used!!!! And would argue that it is not what TKD is about.

I would agree that is your world most kids would have to be trained in your system as I am sure that it is different than most. I am also sure the you would have to adjust to our training methods. I can tell you 1 thing for sure we train extremely hard in very demanding conditions (Death Valley type conditions). It would test the heart of any Human Being. I have seen some very good self defense black belts attempt to keep up in vain. The 4 kids that train with us are under 14 black belts and the keep up with the adults in all aspects of training(no quarter is given). We don't train in a Dojang for the most part we train outside in the conditions. Rain or Snow-Hot or Cold.

 

[Twin Fist]

sounds like fun

all martial arts are supposed to be killing arts. Anyone that says different is fooling themselves. ALL "martial" arts started out as KILLING ARTS.

that they can be used for sport is incidental. that isnt the purpose.

the purpose is to kill the other guy before he kills you. Or to leave them so dammaged that they no longer pose a threat.

if you leave that part of the training out, you are not doing martial arts, and should not claim to be a black belt.

I agree that my ideas are not widespread or popular.

i could care less.

I end up building better people, but it is a fringe benefit that comes from building a fighting machine.

I dont train people to be better tourny people. I train people to be able to take out the bad guy

 

[Gorilla]

Twin Fist,

Agreed!!! All martial arts are Military Arts and therefore at the core a killing art. In your art the pure Sport TKDist does not fit. You should not have to make apologies for for your views. I think that they are valid for what you are trying to accomplish. Many sport TKD people transition to a more self defense orientation as they reach the limits in Sport TKD. I think you should reconsider your thoughts on the validity of Sport TKD as a different art. I would agree that it is a Sport that originated out of a Martial Art not a Martial Art.

I would also agree that a Black Belt in your World would take considerably more time to achieve the levels that you are looking for.

 

[TaeKwonDoKevin]

Do you all think my daughter is ready for her Black Belt?
The video says it all.........Thanks.............

-Kevin

 

[Tames D]

the thing is, person might get into TKD to do the sport side of it.

thats fine, not for me, but thats fine.

but the thing is, they shouldnt get rank, not in TKD.

TKD is about self defense

it is not a sport

it is not so little johnny can feel good about himself

it is about the systematic and remorseless destruction of another human being.

everything else is a fringe benefit

the character building? the self control? fringe benefits

and when someone claims their sport "black belt" is the equal to my TKD black belt, i get a little annoyed.

10 year olds? they aint black belts

2 year black belts? they aint black belts

and i aint shy about saying so

I understand your frustration. I truly believe that the sport version of Tae Kwon Do should be called by another name alltogether, totally separating it from combat TKD.
This should have been done when it became an Olympic event.

 

[ATC]

I'd absolutely love to participate with my son!

In my case, I blew out my knee playing racquetball in the Military. It's never been the same. Arthroscopic + rehab - flexibility - ability to straighten, does not equal TKD.

I did the exact same thing. Racquetball and blew out the knee, then blew out the other knee playing softball of all things. Still I decided to start training again and even though the knees ache from time to time I still love it.

So no excuse TKD_Father, get on the mat and start training with your son. You will love it. Just take it easy on the jumping and spining stuff and you will be fine. You will actually help make the knee stronger.

 

[ATC]

Do you all think my daughter is ready for her Black Belt?
The video says it all.........Thanks.............

-Kevin

Oh my...what form. I say she is a 2nd poom. To cute!

 

[shesulsa]

If martial arts is going to be restricted to instruction in the killing arts, then children should not be taught period and access to this kind of instruction should be restricted to those in military service, law enforcement and the agencies involved in special operations.

And if we're going to apply that rule, then football shouldn't be open to everyone, only those who are talented enough and fully intend to go pro. Same with all other sports.

Art should be limited to the truly obviously talented and original ... illustrators would have no place in art college.

Gimme a break.

Look ... train who you want to train for the purpose you see fit ... but don't tell me whether I can or cannot teach because my general purpose is different than yours.

I will agree that if you train others in martial sports, then be honest that it is martial sports. If you train a community program for personal development and self betterment and enrichment than be honest that it is a belt-ranking system pointed towards personal achievement.

And if you're going to train people to kill ... then only teach legal adults and leave the children at home.

 

[Bones]

Ok, I sit here before you trying to get my ying and yang in balance with a sapporo. What have i learned....School x is the only one capable of producing true black belts, as they specialize in MDK, full contact, no hold back training and the right physiological age. Hmmm.

Credentials. Never mind that belt colors are purely symbolic and made up. I know, you got your belt through blah, blah, blah. I have seen and heard enough "old school gm" types or to have heard of them to know that you are not being taught super secret knowledge that no one else has studied or envisioned. I also know and realize that the belt has not somehow bestowed upon you nobility, wisdom or some super hero power. You needn't go far to hear about some story of GM abuse, corruption or what have you. Martial arts did not teach me to be a better person...strangely my parents had a hand in that and as i grew into adulthood i made some good and bad choices but i can't say that i ever sat with a life problem thinking about what my instructor would have me do. I dare say that there are some kids who have more sense than some adults so, once again, age requirements and poom/dan are just artificial markers which are general and do not hold true for all. Remember, you can be a poom one day and submit your fee to be a black belt when you pass that magic age. granted the KKW website lists the fee in korean currency so you would have to figure out the conversion but again, some adults might be challenged in doing that.

Please understand, i am not diminishing what a "black belt" or an instructor can do or does. The reality is that if you know what you are doing, you can make it look easy. Never mind the years of study and practice to get there. Are you able to convey your knowledge and ability...that varies. Again, simply being older does not make you able. the reality is though, that the student may not be able to take the "teacher" seriously if he is too young or looks it but again, that speaks less of the teacher and more of the student.

I have a friend who does gung fu and for his system, they don't use belts for rank, etc. After his years of being in the martials arts realm, he has found that some use the belt symbol to beat their chests about how great they are or as a convenient marketing ploy for their dojang and their belt mill. I learned a long time ago that whether they are a colored belt or a black to the nth degree it means nothing. the proof is in the pudding. what can they teach, how well can they teach it, how well can they do it, etc. I have seen some pretty amazing low belts that could teach some people a thing or two...or, quite frankly, should be admired for their plain ability.

Regarding training hard, not holding back, etc. Please. Unless your students are maimed or called left eye, for a reason, everyone is holding back in their school. In simplest terms it is all a sport because you have limits, rules, your holding back, you are working within a framework (holding back because they are young, old, a low belt, your friend, etc). This would hold true whether you are a white or a black belt. To not acknowledge this i would have to say your belt is on too tight. The reality is, if no one ever held back and your students could deal with it, take it, dish it back with no real long term injury, then they don't need you and you are not teaching anything of value. The flip side is that maybe despite your own beliefs, your training is really not that hard or as demanding as you would like to think if your students are not maimed, as would tend to happen with a no holds barred approach.

Regarding competition. Do i sit and practice with bob, whose moves i can predict because i have done whatever drill with him a 1000 times or do i move into the realm of the unknown with a new partner. For me, you can sit in your own school, proclaim that you don't compete because its for wussies -- which may be your belief and possibly true. You know what though, i may want to take this car out for a spin and see if its a ferrari (like my instructor tells me) or a ford focus. I really don't see why you can't do both. I can't tell you how many times i have seen people practice in theory and thought wow, only to see these same people choke or be unable to pull it off in a competition. To me, you can say what you want but a competion is a controlled environment and if you cannot pull it off there, all your chest banging about being a true black belt is for nothing. You may have then sold someone a false sense of security.

Regarding ability. I have seen some really sad black belts through the years. People who can't kick a ball, let alone someone, to save their life. However, when you see true ability, with speed and power that few could contend with. To see that in a competition is truely spectacular. That is a chess game with a true athelete and ability. I would speculate that many who consider themselves true black belts would probably not survive the cardio demands of sparring one competitor for the required rounds, let alone going up the brackets to a possible gold. Cardio aside, when you see some real ability, i would also guess that many true black belts on this forum as readers or posters would be knocked out before their egos could stop or counter the blow. Yes, i know, you could have been in the olympics, MMA or whatever but you were teaching that night.

What is it about martial arts that makes a lot of people think that they are the true ones, the chosen ones, the only real ones. You know, if we were talking about anything else...say higher education in english, mathematics, physics many of these same chest beating types would be easily rocked out of their delusions. The difference here is that there are different teachers, different organizations (wtf, itf) and the ability for every yahoo to proclaim himself as a martial arts messiah or having learned from the one true messiah. If you were involved in any other field or hobby, many of these same messiahs would just be that wacky neighbor bob that no one talks to and has not otherwise distinguished himself from the hundreds or millions in his city.

With that said, my name is bones and i am a tkd addict.

 

[miguksaram]

the thing is, person might get into TKD to do the sport side of it.

thats fine, not for me, but thats fine.

but the thing is, they shouldnt get rank, not in TKD.

TKD is about self defense

it is not a sport

No..TKD emcompasses all aspects of martial arts including sport. Now someone may choose to focus solely on the sport aspect of TKD and find the forms and other areas a neccessary evil to achieve what they want out of TKD. Not everyone joins for just self defense.

 

[miguksaram]

sounds like fun

all martial arts are supposed to be killing arts. Anyone that says different is fooling themselves. ALL "martial" arts started out as KILLING ARTS.

Actually not true. Shaolin arts began as breathing exercises and yoga, which evolved into fighgting. Those fighting arts were used as a defense only system from the monks and killing was only the last resort.

 

[just2kicku]

Do you all think my daughter is ready for her Black Belt?
The video says it all.........Thanks.............

-Kevin

I say she's ready........cute kid!

 

[Twin Fist]

sport only means you aint learning a martial art.

self defense only means you aint learning a sport

there is a LOT of middle ground and most schools are somewhere in between

i have no interest in or respect for sport only schools.