Youth Black Belts

[shesulsa]

if he get through the next 3 months yes.

Three months? Look, I'm an adult and I went through more than one and a half YEARS between my half-black test and my test for black.

They don't give way Black belts grades easy.

I'd be appreciative if you could post his requirements here. But I can say with ... heh ... quit a bit of confidence that three months of work for a black belt on a kid *is* *absolutely* *giving* *rank* *away* *easy.*

Just so we're clear ... I want you to know, I wish you no ill will whatsoever and I'm not passing judgement on your son ... the practice of black-ranking children is an abominable practice and should not be done. I don't know a single martial artist I respect who thinks this practice is okay. You are paying good money for an important program for your children and I'm sure you want what's best for them.

 

[ATC]

My Son who is 12 is going to be testing for his 3rd Poom. I was a little bit concerned that he was to young but after some discussion the Master on his team thinks that he is ready they will put him through a 3 month course to make sure that he is ready and then he will test. My daughter who is 15 almost 16 will test for her 2nd Dan is without a doubt ready.

My son was a 1st Poom at 7 1/2 and 2nd at 9 and will be a 3rd at 12 1/2. I have met several people who have ?'s his qualifications before they saw him fight or train or witnessed his demeanor in the dojang. None have have questioned it after they have seen him fight train or act in person...I know hand full of 12-13 year olds who hold this rank from different schools all owned by responsible Masters who(IMHO) deserve the rank 3rd Poom. It can and does happen...By the way all 3 poom ranks will have come from different schools(we had to move because of Job) not a school hopper. So three different Masters ranking 5th, 6th and 9th agree that he deserves this rank...Let the debate begin again do you think that it is possible that my kid might deserve this rank(don't worry I wont get my feelings hurt )

That's great Gorilla. Where are you located? If close enough it would be nice to have my son spar or cross train with yours. My son is 10 and is a second poom right now. He has a way to go for his 3rd but he is still pluggin away at it. In our dojang there is no one his age that he can train with as he destroys them all. He has to fight the older 2nd dan girls and still beats them all pretty easy. Just today he put a 3rd dan teenager (boy) down for the count with a back kick. The kick was an accident but still he drop a kid 6 years older than him and about 60 pounds heavier.

My daughter is also a second poom (12 years old) and could be better than my son but she does not apply herself.

I think every dojang has one, maybe two kids that are very good and way ahead of the curve. Keep training him hard and don't let him give up. Maybe some day your's and mine will meet up in the ring.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a valid point, ATC - when it comes to effective skill then there are always around 5% of any population that are actually talented at something (as opposed to competently trained in it).

I think what most people are talking about here tho are 'chronologically immature' practitioners being granted grades that carry more than a little 'baggage' external to simply knowing your kata.

I had thought that all arts had junior grades that become obsolete as the child grows up? My Lau Gar school certainly did.

A youth could earn his black sash, certainly. But when he reached 16 he was expected to essentially start again and work towards a non-provisional black sash. A junior grade was a good gauge of how well a child measured up against his contempories but was in no way considered to be an equivalent to an adult grade.

 

[TKD_Father]

That's great Gorilla. Where are you located? If close enough it would be nice to have my son spar or cross train with yours. My son is 10 and is a second poom right now. He has a way to go for his 3rd but he is still pluggin away at it. In our dojang there is no one his age that he can train with as he destroys them all. He has to fight the older 2nd dan girls and still beats them all pretty easy. Just today he put a 3rd dan teenager (boy) down for the count with a back kick. The kick was an accident but still he drop a kid 6 years older than him and about 60 pounds heavier.

My daughter is also a second poom (12 years old) and could be better than my son but she does not apply herself.

I think every dojang has one, maybe two kids that are very good and way ahead of the curve. Keep training him hard and don't let him give up. Maybe some day your's and mine will meet up in the ring.

That is very familiar. My son has the exact same issues. He can't spar anyone in the "children" class, so he spars the adults, who are at least 2' taller then him. He does extremely well against them, including scoring on several head shots.

 

[TKD_Father]

Three months? Look, I'm an adult and I went through more than one and a half YEARS between my half-black test and my test for black.

I think you misinterpreted Gorilla's post. What he said was 2nd at 9 and will be a 3rd at 12 1/2 which means his son has been 2nd for over 3 years and this 3 months is to ensure he's ready.

That's how I read it, is that correct Gorilla?

 

[Twin Fist]

forget this

post up some video of these 7 year olds that deserve a BB

otherwise? i am calling "belt factory" on this crap

7 year old BB? CRAP

12 year old 3rd black? UBER CRAP

it isnt personal

I dont know you, i dont know your kids, this is crap is out of hand and why i am LEAVING TKD

 

[shesulsa]

i am LEAVING TKD

Wow! Really? I saw you had started a type of Kenpo ... hey, can we chat about this in PMs civilly? I know I can.

 

[Taurusmerda]

Youth black belts are meaningless. You mean to tell me that some 10 yr old 2nd dan is actually able to use the techniques properly against a 30 yr old, 225 lb aggressive? Please. Unless the kids gone through the Spartan military training, 1 backhand from the adult no belt will send your 2nd dan flying and crying. Just because he graduated 1st grade, doesn't mean he can hang with the high schoolers. 99% of kids programs are watered down, scaled back and simplified, because 99% of kids out there don't have the physical attributes, the mental ability or the attention span to hack it. Thinking that your 3rd dan rug rat is comparable to some adult who's worked longer than yours has ben aware of their own boogers is an insult to every adult who has bleed, sweat and worked through pain to achieve a real belt.

But, we know how kids programs go. You pay for this, and you pay for that, and you pay even more for some special high intensity training, and that is exactly what you get. Lots of it and a lighter wallet for a glorified gym and baby sitting session.

But if you really think your kid's all that because you bought him a belt, let him spar with the big kids. Let him hang with the grown ups. Any legit dan should be able to do it, regardless of system. Too mean? Then stop living in your fantasy world and giving your kid a false sense of security before you get him hurt.

 

[TKD_Father]

But if you really think your kid's all that because you bought him a belt, let him spar with the big kids. Let him hang with the grown ups. Any legit dan should be able to do it, regardless of system. Too mean? Then stop living in your fantasy world and giving your kid a false sense of security before you get him hurt.

Are you saying that there shouldn't be weight classes in competitions? That 90 Pound kids should be sparring against 225 pound adults in actual tournaments?

 

[Taurusmerda]

There are no weight classes on the street. Or, do you think a group of criminals will stop and go "No Marty, you can't beat on him, you out weigh him by at least 50 lbs. Let Stan do it so it's a fair fight." If you do, you're an idiot. As to tournaments, you mean these paid events where almost everyone goes home with a trophy because they have so many divisions it's almost guarantee you'll get at least 1 for showing up? Do you really think that controlled sparring, under safe conditions, wearing safety gear, with controlled strikes and a "limited safe contact zone" between 2 people close to the same height and weight really is a fair match to a real street fight? Just admit it then, your TKD is as street effective as knitting is.

 

[TKD_Father]

Taurusmerda - thanks for clearing that up, that first post kind of confused me.

I don't think you'll get much argument that TKD isn't the best Martial Art for self defense. And actually, your comments don't really follow along with this thread at all, now that I look at them.

Twin Fist will be the one to jump in and educate you on how holding a belt means nothing when it's your life on the line. Nobody cares if you are a white or 9th in a street fight. -God, did I just give TF a kudo?!

There is a HUGE difference between a regulated competition and a street fight. What you've said about regulated competitions VS street fighting holds true for anything. That's why they have rules in a regulated competition.

*Added after mango.man's post
Just curious Taurusmerda, what's your interest in TKD? Are you planning on taking some classes?

Your profile shows:

Systems Studied / InterestedBJJ / MMA / Grappling / Wrestling, Judo

 

[mango.man]

Hope you don't mind, but I went ahead and fixed your post for you.

Senior citizen black belts are meaningless. You mean to tell me that some 70 yr old 4ft-9 85lb 2nd dan is actually able to use the techniques properly against a 30 yr old, 6ft-4, 225 lb aggressive? Please. Unless the senior citizen gone through the Spartan military training, 1 backhand from the adult no belt will send your 2nd dan flying and crying. Just because she has been a homemaker for 50 years, doesn't mean she can hang with the thugs and criminals. 99% of all martial arts programs are watered down, scaled back and simplified, because 99% of senior citizens out there don't have the physical attributes, the mental ability or the attention span to hack it. Thinking that your 3rd dan 70 year old granny is comparable to some adult who's less than half her age and doesn't have to stop midway through a fight to change his depends is an insult to every 30 year old who has bleed, sweat and worked through pain to achieve a real belt.

 

[Taurusmerda]

Same point. Any codger who hasn't gotten on the floor in years who thinks the black belt her earned in 1970 still means something today is just as deluded. Use it, Train it, Live it, or risk Losing it.

 

[Taurusmerda]

*Added after mango.man's post
Just curious Taurusmerda, what's your interest in TKD? Are you planning on taking some classes?

None. I wasn't aware that conversations on this site were restricted to just those who claim to study in that area. I saw the youth black belt title, commented on that. My opinion of TKD doesn't apply here.

 

[TKD_Father]

None. I wasn't aware that conversations on this site were restricted to just those who claim to study in that area. I saw the youth black belt title, commented on that. My opinion of TKD doesn't apply here.

Whoa there, don't get so defensive. Just saw that you weren't involved with TKD and thought you might be interested in taking it up. There's a lot of knowledgeable people here who could help you get started.

 

[ATC]

Youth black belts are meaningless. You mean to tell me that some 10 yr old 2nd dan is actually able to use the techniques properly against a 30 yr old, 225 lb aggressive? Please. Unless the kids gone through the Spartan military training.

So the way you think is that there is no need for kids to do Martial Arts at all. The said kid that does and loves the MA will at some point grow and any said skills that were learned and perfected at 7 up to adult size would still apply. Making such said kid that much better than any adult that attepmts to learn his skill at an age where habit, flexibility, time in training, and many other obsticles would make it almost impossible for that said adult to achive the same level of skill, power and acurracy.

Many of the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese master have been doing their arts since child hood. We have a few adult black belts in our dojang and they are not bad but I can tell you this much, my 10 and 12 year old son daughter can run circles around them all.

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't know as that last statement holds a great deal of water, ATC. Are you certain you're not allowing due parental pride to stop you seeing the realities of the situation?

As to martial arts training for children, well, to be honest, if it is driven to the pitch it needs to be to make a difference, I approve of that as much as I approve of weight training for children i.e. I don't.

Junior Belts are just that, Junior Belts. As I mentioned on this subject before, I am astounded that it is not seen as universal that such grades have meaning in their context but that the individual involved must understand they are in a two tier system.

All athletic disciplines use this structure, tennis being the one that springs to mind as a clear example, or motorsport too. Rank as a Junior does not translate to rank as a senior and nor should it. That doesn't mean that Junior Ranks are worthless, it just means that they have value in their context.

 

[ATC]

All athletic disciplines use this structure, tennis being the one that springs to mind as a clear example, or motorsport too. Rank as a Junior does not translate to rank as a senior and nor should it. That doesn't mean that Junior Ranks are worthless, it just means that they have value in their context.

to an extent I would agree. However there are levels that tend to overlap. I am positive that the top level Sr. can and will beat the top level Jr., however the same top level Jr. will beat a great deal of low level and mid level Sr's. You are looking at it as an absolute and it is not. But as I stated once that said top level Jr. becomes a Sr. he will have an easier time to become a top level Sr. then would a Sr. just starting or many low level Sr's.

 

[Twin Fist]

georgia, i am restricted i cant get pm's, look me up on facebook, i am on carols friends list

Wow! Really? I saw you had started a type of Kenpo ... hey, can we chat about this in PMs civilly? I know I can.

 

[Twin Fist]

We have a few adult black belts in our dojang and they are not bad but I can tell you this much, my 10 and 12 year old son daughter can run circles around them all.

I call Belt Factory till i see some video