Young atheist needs support

[elder999]

Atheists are the most hated group of people in America. This is true. .

People disagree, they don't necessarily "get hostile." Most of us (non-atheists) just really don't care. A few people I've met (relatives) were completely ignorant that there was such a person as an atheist.

I really, really, don't care. I don't make any judgement in this regard-heck, I raised my kids to think for themselves. My son's what he calls a "radical agnostic": I don't know, and neither do you. :lol: My daughter became a Catholic.....I think I'd prefer she were a radical agnostic. :lfao:

On the other hand, "logically and scientifically" labeling people's dearly and sometimes deeply held beliefs as "psuedosicence," "myth," and, worst of all, "superstition," is hostile, and insulting(sometimes intentionally)-though technically correct in some respects-and can only be expected to be met with equal hostility.

 

[fangjian]

People disagree, they don't necessarily "get hostile." Most of us (non-atheists) just really don't care. A few people I've met (relatives) were completely ignorant that there was such a person as an atheist.

Hahaha. Yes. My aunt said to me " What's up with all of this stuff youpost on Facebook lately. What are you some kind of Atheist or something" "Yeah" " Ahh. Well, don't worry you're still a good person". lolz

I really, really, don't care. I don't make any judgement in this regard-heck, I raised my kids to think for themselves. My son's what he calls a "radical agnostic": I don't know, and neither do you.

By definition your son is an Agnostic Atheist. Like me.

On the other hand, "logically and scientifically" labeling people's dearly and sometimes deeply held beliefs as "psuedosicence," "myth," and, worst of all, "superstition," is hostile, and insulting(sometimes intentionally)-though technically correct in some respects-and can only be expected to be met with equal hostility.

Very true. I do expect some people to be mad at what I say.

New York Giants are awesome ( I nearly got ambushed at a Philadelphia Eagles game). People are so sensitive. They need a thicker skin.

Stuff like 'A God Hypethesis' is a part of science. Cosmology/Cosmogony. And when someone asserts it as true. I don't mind calling it out. Cause if you wanna 'play scientist', you're view can be scrutinized with all of the rest of the hypotheses.

-oh no, is this where our thread is gonna go now?!

 

[elder999]

Oh, and I dispute that "atheists" are the "most hated group in America."

 

[fangjian]

Oh, and I dispute that "atheists" are the "most hated group in America."

African Americans ? Muslims? Gays?

You can find MANY studies about peoples' views on Atheists/non believers, though.
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/1...eists-are-most-hated-and-distrusted-minority/


http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm

 

[elder999]

African Americans ? Muslims? Gays?

Any of those might be possible-though they are also subject to the same indifference I have towards atheists- but I think it changes from time to time, and right now it's probably illegal aliens that are the most hated group.

 

[elder999]

I don't completely disagree with any of this. I agree that the superintendent really shoulda' called him out.


.....with no deep significance.

It definitely has deep significance to them, otherwise they wouldn't care.

ummm oh. So is that our answer? Kind of, at least?

It has no deep significance to Damon Fowler, though-far easier to roll one's eyes, or whatever; it is, however, illegal, as I posted-I did not know this until I bothered looking
according to the court case, they simply cannot have a representative of an organized religion delivering a blessing, benediction or prayer.

The valedictorian, or other student making a speech, could make a prayer part of their speech, though, and invite everyone to participate. This is 1st Amendment protected.

 

[fangjian]

The valedictorian, or other student making a speech, could make a prayer part of their speech, though, and invite everyone to participate. This is 1st Amendment protected.

Yeah. This is what I had been assuming recently.

 

[Twin Fist]

maybe people wouldnt be so hostile to the atheist if the athiest wasnt so goddamn cocky, calling everyone else guillible fools and dismissing the beliefs as "fairy tales"

kind of makes me want to kick athiest in the nuts too....and I am an easy going guy....

 

[Big Don]

maybe people wouldn't be so hostile to the atheist if the atheists weren't so goddamn cocky, calling everyone else gullible fools and dismissing the beliefs as "Fairy tales."

Kind of makes me want to kick atheists in the nuts too... and I am an easy going guy...

QFT and to correct spelling and punctuation.

 

[fangjian]

maybe people wouldnt be so hostile to the atheist if the athiest wasnt so goddamn cocky, calling everyone else guillible fools and dismissing the beliefs as "fairy tales"

An important point that needs to be taken into consideration. Nobody likes arrogance. A point that does get brought up in the atheist community from time to time. How can we say 'To believe in something without evidence, is irrational", without sounding like a deeckhead?

But people are offended way to easily.
Well, I voted for Obama. It was my belief that he was the better option for the country at the time. You can not call out my belief, as that would be rude. And don't you dare bring out any evidence or lack there of, that may call my claim into question.
I am deeply offended by all of your anti Obama posts.

Silly right, TF?

Islam is the religion of peace. Don't call that into question either, as people may take offense.

 

[Big Don]

An important point that needs to be taken into consideration. Nobody likes arrogance. A point that does get brought up in the atheist community from time to time. How can we say 'To believe in something without evidence, is irrational", without sounding like a deeckhead?

I don't know. I do appreciate you asking. You don't see many Christians running around telling atheists they are going to Hell... There are a very vocal few, but, not many...

But people are offended way to easily.

Absolutely

Islam is the religion of peace. Don't call that into question either, as people may take offense.

and go boom

 

[elder999]

'To believe in something without evidence, is irrational",.

If you say it just like that, then you don't sound like a dick-head at all.

As someone who "believes in something" without "evidence," and a scientist, I'll admit that it's clearly irrational.

Nothing rational about it at all. So? Are we simply and solely creatures of rationality? Are we even creatures that are primarily rational? Do we even agree on what "rationality" is?
I'd say no-we are more than simply rational creatures, and not primarily rational, and, I'd add, not always irrational to anyone's detriment, including our own.

IRRATIONAL

: not rational: as
a (1) : not endowed with reason or understanding
(2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence
b : not governed by or according to reason <irrational fears>

Love is irrational.



There often isn't anything "rational" about the things that make us laugh the most.

Or the clothes we wear.

Or the foods we eat.

The vehicles we choose to drive.

These last three because they are by choice, just as believing is for many-and, in this country, simply "believing" is a choice.

 

[Twin Fist]

if you hold your politics as tightly as some people hold thier religion, i am not sure wether to be scared or amused....

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Far as I can tell, the difference between religious thought and political views is mighty thin in our country these days.

Lot of Republicans running around thinking Democrats are immoral, dangerous and worth less as people because they choose do believe differently.

Lot of Democrats feeling the same way about the Republicans.

And both seem to base their beliefs primarily on somebody else's interpretation of canonized dogma.

It's like Bosnia, only with fewer murders and land mines.

 

[fangjian]

If you say it just like that, then you don't sound like a dick-head at all.







Love is irrational.



There often isn't anything "rational" about the things that make us laugh the most.

Or the clothes we wear.

Or the foods we eat.

The vehicles we choose to drive.

These last three because they are by choice, just as believing is for many-and, in this country, simply "believing" is a choice.

We are obviously off topic, but I will respond anyways. I am somewhat of a noob here as well so I'm not knowledgable of the policies on straying off topic, but anyway,

I do sound like a deeckhead if I say something, even like that. It's one of those things that there is no nice way to say it.

Love is one of those things that is always brought up. Science, including Evolutionary Biology, and Neuroscience, have quite a bit to say about things like love, good and evil. All of it very fascinating, and IMO very accurate.

As someone who "believes in something" without "evidence," and a scientist, I'll admit that it's clearly irrational.

This sentence tells me that you are a scientist and you have a held belief which lacks evidential support. If I am correct, what science do you do research in and, would you share this belief?

 

[elder999]

Love is one of those things that is always brought up. Science, including Evolutionary Biology, and Neuroscience, have quite a bit to say about things like love, good and evil. All of it very fascinating, and IMO very accurate.

Accurate, perhaps, but they don't make "love" rational at all.

This sentence tells me that you are a scientist

Yeah, I've got a PhD. in physics.I worked at Los Alamos National Lab for 13 years....I've talked about the things that I did there that I can talk about, and around the things that I can't talk about on this board for years.

and you have a held belief which lacks evidential support.

I've got evidential support, but, being completely subjective, relatively unduplicable or mostly unduplicable, it doesn't satisfy the scientific evidentiary standard.

Satisfies mine, though. :lol:

If I am correct, what science do you do research in and, would you share this belief?

I don't do research any more-I started my career in power plants, and never really wanted to be a physicist-they made me do it so I could order people around that held PhD.'s without their noses getting out of joint. I was perfectly happy being an engineer, and I've finally, after one more detour, gotten back to power plants.....

I've shared my beliefs elsewhere, though it's likely that I've talked around them more than I have nuclear weapons.:lol:

You can have a look here, 'cause, yeah, talking about my beliefs would almost certainly be a thread drift of tsunamic proportions. :lfao:

 

[bushidomartialarts]

On the original subject...

Many schools observe a "moment of silence" where you can pray to anyone or nobody, think long thoughts, meditate or check out the keister of whomever stands in front of you.

If memory serves, my high school (20 years ago) had an optional separate religious service (Bacclaureate, manby?) that you could go to if so inclined.

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of middle ground for folks to stand on without a)ruining everybody else's fun or b)forcing the minority to play a game he didn't sign up for


On the subject of "just leave"...

Fair enough to say that now (or soon), but since this is about high school graduation the lad likely didn't have much control over his location.

 

[Twin Fist]

On the original subject...

Many schools observe a "moment of silence" where you can pray to anyone or nobody, think long thoughts, meditate or check out the keister of whomever stands in front of you.

If memory serves, my high school (20 years ago) had an optional separate religious service (Bacclaureate, manby?) that you could go to if so inclined.

thats what we had when i graduated

 

[bushidomartialarts]

And you're older than I am (I'm guessing from some of your comments)

Have we slid backwards? Or is LA just now getting around to stuff TX and OR solved two decades ago?

In a related note, the school board in my town spent a whole session last week changing "Winter Break" back to "Christmas Break"

 

[Carol]

Here is your quote, which I interpret as "Stop being such a beech, and just move away if you feel like you 'not one of them'"

Sometimes moving isn't an option for some people.



Yes yes. Very true. It is more about emotional support from others that can let themselves be heard and show that town that he is not some freak 'anomaly'.

ummm. That he'll be graduating from school this Friday, and he lives in the 'Bible Belt'. ?
Sorry I don't know. What do you mean?



Well, it's the right thing to do, to me. But I am curious if it also did have any legal basis as these things are 'kinda a grey area'. Bill Mattocks was a big help btw, and cleared up a few misconceptions I had about a couple things. So thnx.

Anyway. Eventually the thread became less about 'support for Damon', and more about, well, hmm, 'was it legal'? Is it legal to have this prayer at the ceremony? Is it a big deal? Is it not?

So you are correct. It is about emotional support too. What's wrong with that? Maybe he can't leave yet. Maybe he's got a babymama or something Maybe he's got..............

Atheists are the most hated group of people in America. This is true. Of course it's easy to stay in the closet, if you want. But when it's out, it's a sheet storm, and people get hostile. So I don't blame him for asking others to show his town, that he's not some freak.

Nah, not saying he's a beech. Or a birch. Just saying he's likely not without alternative options.

For me I busted *** in high school to get in to get where I wanted to go, and knew of many others that did the same. That meant doing boring stuff for a very long time such as spending weekends in the library rather than going out with friends (good practice for engineering work...LOL), pleading to organizations to get a $500 scholarship, not getting pregnant, etc.

He doesn't sound like he's thrilled being in the Bible Belt, chances are he doesn't have to stay if he doesn't want to and he's had time to prepare for a change. But...as you said, maybe he has his reasons for staying, and he wants to make the best of where he is.

On the subject of "just leave"...

Fair enough to say that now (or soon), but since this is about high school graduation the lad likely didn't have much control over his location.

Of course.