Yip Man - Yuen Kai San realtion
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Vajramusti
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My judgment call-
based on what I know of Ip man's wing chun and other cotemporary arts.
If I did not think very highly of his art, I would not do it. Simple.
based on what I know of Ip man's wing chun and other cotemporary arts.
If I did not think very highly of his art, I would not do it. Simple.
Vajramusti
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Vajramusti
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It's ok- I was not looking for your opinion though I respect your right not to agree.
Vajramusti
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ok let's move on.
Nah. I still have to put in my 2 cents.
My old sifu, who trained with GM Yip Man, may have said some stuff to us which was pure BS, but he also told us things that ring of common sense. One was that GM Yip really was as good as he was made out to be.
One time he related to us a story about a personal friend of his, a reporter who sometimes wrote for Hong Kong martial arts magazines, who continually sought out obscure lineages of WC, always looking for something more "pure", "original", "internal" and "effective". Sifu said it was kind of a sad story, since this man was very sincere and worked hard, but never really achieved a very high level of skill, or found the "magic" he was looking for.
Basically, Sifu told us, so many people are looking for magic, something like the "secret tecniques" or the "hermit master" you find in all the wuxia stories and cheesy kung fu movies. "I tell you" Sifu said, "Not even one of these so-called Wing Chun masters would have dared to show his face when Grandmaster Yip was alive!"
Now in my opinion (yes it's just an opinion guys), those words ring true!
BTW any similarity between the description of the poor guy above who was looking for some "pure and original" form of WC and either Hendrick or Sergio is pure coincidence. Really.
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Vajramusti
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I have mentioned this before. There is a well known yoga teacher here in the valley who learned some wing chun from me. He knew a Chinese girl- now back in Asia. The girl's father was learning wing chun from Ip Man- he could afford private lessons in his courtyard. Some martial artists used to come to watch. They laughed at the old sifu and said that their kicks would break through IM's defense. So IP stood in the center and the visitors began kicking at him from different directions- they all went flying and falling.
When HKM opened his Macao school on a high rooftop of a tall building., IM came occasionally... to watch the proceedings. He has corrected my sifu and even later asked him to show proper moving ma bo footwork to a sifu who learned a short time in HK before moving to Canada. There are lots of people with first hand experience of Ip Man' skills. Trivializing his achievements is plain silly.
When HKM opened his Macao school on a high rooftop of a tall building., IM came occasionally... to watch the proceedings. He has corrected my sifu and even later asked him to show proper moving ma bo footwork to a sifu who learned a short time in HK before moving to Canada. There are lots of people with first hand experience of Ip Man' skills. Trivializing his achievements is plain silly.
OP
zuti car
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There are similar stories in every lineage , in every art. Yi quan founder had 1000 fights and never lost , Huo Jing Jua was undefeated fighter , Wong shun leung a king of underground fights. There are two things common for this kind of stories, all of them put their main protagonist above all others and non of them can be proved
I also tend to believe what is said about Ip Man's skills. Wong Shun Leung had some experience boxing and remained a "no nonsense" kind of guy throughout his life by all accounts. He was impressed with Ip Man's skills and stayed with him. Bruce Lee was no slouch when it came to fighting and recognizing what is practical. He always spoke highly of Ip Man's skills. I don't doubt Ip Man's skills at all. I think Ip Man was an intelligent, skilled, and experienced martial artist. Now... the sticking point is all of the stories about how Ip Man acquired that skill. I'm willing to give his own intelligence and ingenuity the benefit of the doubt and attribute a lot of his advancement in skill beyond his peers to his own hard work, in-depth understanding of Wing Chun and his own innovations that came from that. Why do we even need to keep emphasizing a Leung Bik connection? It seems some of Ip Man's followers made a far bigger deal out of it than did Ip Man himself. He even forgot to mention it in a history of Wing Chun that he wrote himself!!!
I also believe that Ip Man was passionate about Wing Chun and would have checked out other Wing Chun guys as much as possible. He would have trained with Yuen Kay Shan, Ng Chun So, Chu Chong Man, Fung Wah and any other Wing Chun guys that were available and friendly. Who here wouldn't do that? Who here wouldn't be willing to pick up a thing or two that looked good from someone from another Wing Chun lineage other than his own? So I think it is also just plain silly and against common sense to deny those kinds of contacts and connections as being a probability.....and yet to put so much stock in the Leung Bik story!
I also believe that Ip Man was passionate about Wing Chun and would have checked out other Wing Chun guys as much as possible. He would have trained with Yuen Kay Shan, Ng Chun So, Chu Chong Man, Fung Wah and any other Wing Chun guys that were available and friendly. Who here wouldn't do that? Who here wouldn't be willing to pick up a thing or two that looked good from someone from another Wing Chun lineage other than his own? So I think it is also just plain silly and against common sense to deny those kinds of contacts and connections as being a probability.....and yet to put so much stock in the Leung Bik story!
This is absolutely true. I have no doubt the Grandmaster Yip crossed bridges with many other skilled practitioners and applied whatever was useful. Bruce Lee didn't invent that concept! But whereas Bruce lee was brash and not at all private about his own changes and contributions to the art, GM Yip by all accounts was a more modest and proper gentleman. Perhaps you are right, KPM. Perhaps GM Yip used the Leung Bik story as a cover for modifications to his WC that were either of his own invention, or borrowed from others including YKS. Or perhaps the Leung Bik story is all true. Or a little of both.
So when I discuss WC history with advanced students and colleagues, I share these thoughts. With beginning students, I simply relate the story as told in GM Yip's own written history of the system. And I let them know that is as much legend as fact.
BTW KPM, why this obsession over Leung Bik? Nobody I know except a few "true-believers" in the William Cheung fantasy even care!
Danny T
Senior Master
Stories are often embellished. What is most important is how skilled are you within your art. Ip Man was very good. Great even. That does absolutely nothing for me or you. WC has evolved, no art is pure. Train, get better, compare yourself to yourself. All else is really unimportant.
jhexx
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Great post^^^
in my own experience, I think there is a great benefit to learning different aspects of application from different lineages, it only adds more choices in your own arsenal. My stance is definitely influenced by both Wong Sheung Leung (modified by my father a bit) and Jiu Wan stances. As of now learning Wang Kiu's version from Chum Kiu on. As I study more about them, I see a lot of connections and variations of the same applied theories, which in turn helps me have a broader understanding of that one hand (in general for example the tan sao, gan sao, etc, whatever I am working on at that time.)
in my own experience, I think there is a great benefit to learning different aspects of application from different lineages, it only adds more choices in your own arsenal. My stance is definitely influenced by both Wong Sheung Leung (modified by my father a bit) and Jiu Wan stances. As of now learning Wang Kiu's version from Chum Kiu on. As I study more about them, I see a lot of connections and variations of the same applied theories, which in turn helps me have a broader understanding of that one hand (in general for example the tan sao, gan sao, etc, whatever I am working on at that time.)
Yeah, I'd say it's one of Sergio's better clips. He's got some good ideas and has quite a talent for mimicking and picking stuff up. Definitely a faster learner than I ever was or will be.
On the other hand he has also jumped on a lot of trendy bandwagons and put out a lot of more questionable stuff. After all he is promoting his business just like a lot of other people. So in general I take it all with a grain of salt.
