Xu YuSheng Yang style Taijiquan

[oaktree]

Forget the above post I found what it is called in pinyin

From Chen Zhenglei it is "Xuan Feng Jiao" - Tornado Kick or Whirlwind Kick

Still looking for the characters

I think it is not that one well I don't know maybe Chen Xiaowang differs. If you watch the mark in my video the kick that makes him turn around was the Xuan Feng Jiao then comes You Deng Yi Gen then comes that little Fa Jin movement with the hands then the stomp. I think the Fa jin movement with the hand and the stomp do not have an offical "step" name just part of a transition. Chen has alot of transition steps.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

I watched the video at the 2:16 mark, That is in Laojia Yi Lu as well I was told it was a stomp and is a transition step. There a couple of stomps in Laojia Yi Lu and some people teach those little jump steps to one foot others do not and still others modify.
At the 7:00-7:05. I guess Chen people like to stomp alot actually, Chen Xiaowang says he is not stomping he is punching the ground with his foot what ever that means.

We did our 83 again in class thinking about it more it's less a "jump" then trap, as it is a trap then jump. it's just that our step is an attack low on the leg.

As to the punching the ground I think I can understand that view point. From how I'm being taught everything is moving as one. so when you do the movement I hear called "pound the mortar" your fist, body, foot all are hitting together and it's much more powerful then just stomping your foot down. I have notice we shake the floor pretty good when we do this.

That's at least my interpretation.

 

[Jin Gang]

gotca, I was not familiar with the names you where using. Just wanted to make sure we where on the same page. Still interested on what Xu yusheng yang is.

Read the document linked on the first post, it is a translation of a book on taijiquan by Xu Yusheng which lists the postures of the form with pictures, in addition to history, philosophy and principles. Xu Yusheng was a student of Yang Jianhou, who was one of Yang Lutang's sons. So his version of the form may represent an older version of Yang style than is commonly seen (or it may represent a version altered by other teachings, as Xue Sheng has been saying). It would make sense if the oldest form of the Yang style had the jumping/double kick, since Chen style is it's progenitor. Most Yang style we see today is descended from Yang Chengfu (including Cheng Manching's form), Yang Jianhou's son, and it is known that the form he taught was different from that of his father and his grandfather.

I also spent four years in CSC, I was introduced to taijiquan there, as well. If I were you, I would get some books and watch some videos on Yang style taijiquan, (and Chen style, too, for that matter). Get "Master Cheng's New Method of Taichi Ch'uan Self Cultivation", which covers the 37 posture form that they tried to teach us. Also get "Yang Chengfu: The Essence and Applications of Taijiquan", which is about the traditional Yang family form that the 37 posture form was based on, and is a great reference. You'll also see where many of the sequences from the 24 posture simplified form came from. I would start ammending what you've been learning with advice from the masters in these books, and eventually find a taijiquan teacher who can correct the bad habits/errors you are learning now (unless your SD/CSC teacher is doing things differently than all the others I have seen, you are learning many things incorrectly about the taijiquan forms). Same goes for baguazhang and xingyiquan. It isn't impossible to make improvements if you can follow the advice of the masters, there now is a lot of information available in English, and on the internet, that can help greatly.

 

[Jin Gang]

A good friend of mine teaches the Chen Manching stuff and I also saw a TT Liang do the form not to long before he passed away. Also I briefly did a version of it that came from William CC Chen and the biggest difference I felt, other than being shorter, was it seemed to emphasize a different part of the posture that traditional Yang did, that is in the William CC Chen version as for the one more directly from Chen Manching it just looked too relaxed but I have never trained it so take my opinion on that for what it is worth

I agree that Cheng Manching's style is a little too relaxed, at least for me most of the time. Sometimes I do like to do it that way, but usually I prefer the more traditional yang style large frame. When I don't have time for the long form, I will do the 37 postures but in more traditional yang method.

 

[oaktree]

I really don't know what you mean by a trap. I was told
It was a way to transfer to the other leg quicker rather then
Do the slower leg transfer of weight. I suppose there
Really isn't any rule saying it can't be for something else.

 

[Jin Gang]

I really don't know what you mean by a trap. I was told
It was a way to transfer to the other leg quicker rather then
Do the slower leg transfer of weight. I suppose there
Really isn't any rule saying it can't be for something else.

A "trap kick" is what they call the kick Bruce Lee does at around 2:48 a couple times. Sometimes it is emphasized more as a stomp than a kick the way Bruce does it.

 

[oaktree]

What blazed sounds like is a variation of a step. I don't know
Xin jia or 83 I only do laojia and I do not see any kicks that resemble
The ones Bruce lee does if so which step number or pin yin or hanzi for it?

 

[clfsean]

What blazed sounds like is a variation of a step. I don't know
Xin jia or 83 I only do laojia and I do not see any kicks that resemble
The ones Bruce lee does if so which step number or pin yin or hanzi for it?

I used to practice Joseph Chen Zhonghua's Practical Method Chen... which is just Xinjia modified by Hong Junsheng. In the Yilu, there's a low side kick in "Turn Left and Kick With Left Heel / Zuo Zhuan Shen Deng Jiao".

What Bruce Lee did was like a Jeet Toi or Intercepting Kick. Not sure of the WC name, but that's what I know it as.

 

[mook jong man]

A "trap kick" is what they call the kick Bruce Lee does at around 2:48 a couple times. Sometimes it is emphasized more as a stomp than a kick the way Bruce does it.

What Bruce is doing , is your basic Wing Chun low heel kick.
But he is doing it from the rear leg , whereas if he used the YCKYM Wing Chun stance he could do it from either leg.
My Sifu told us once that a lot of the kicks Bruce used in the movies were just Wing Chun kicks jazzed up and done a bit higher.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

I agree that Cheng Manching's style is a little too relaxed, at least for me most of the time. Sometimes I do like to do it that way, but usually I prefer the more traditional yang style large frame. When I don't have time for the long form, I will do the 37 postures but in more traditional yang method.

I was having a conversation about CMC yesterday. I had asked about his versions of taiji and I was told that CMC was not a martial artist but a scholar. When he learned Taiji it was later in life and though he was really good, and understood it. He didn't have the physical training of a martial artist and that's why you see the difference in his applications.

thought it was interesting and something worth considering.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

I really don't know what you mean by a trap. I was told
It was a way to transfer to the other leg quicker rather then
Do the slower leg transfer of weight. I suppose there
Really isn't any rule saying it can't be for something else.

ok so if your standing in a horse like stance. you just finishing the arm movement "swimming" your right foot lifts then shoots out infront of your left and kicks below someone's knee who is stand to your left side. after this kick out of your foot you hop/jump the left foot over for the "step".

that's what I mean, that's how I learned it at least.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

A "trap kick" is what they call the kick Bruce Lee does at around 2:48 a couple times. Sometimes it is emphasized more as a stomp than a kick the way Bruce does it.

lol yep that's what I mean

 

[Xue Sheng]

Cheng was also a college poetry professor and had some training in traditional Chinese medicine (herbology). He started training Taiji in his late 20s but I doubt that is the reason for the difference is that he learned later in life or his lack of MA training prior to training Taijiquan.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Cheng was also a college poetry professor and had some training in traditional Chinese medicine (herbology). He started training Taiji in his late 20s but I doubt that is the reason for the difference is that he learned later in life or his lack of MA training prior to training Taijiquan.

What do you feel the difference? Interpretation? Or do you think he felt the techniques where more effective his way? Granted we are speculating, but I am curious on your thoughts. I was not aware he started training in his 20s I was under the impression it was like his 40s.

 

[oaktree]

Blazed your description has dumbfounded me and
Caused me to declare myself officially retarded.

Thank god for clfsean and giving me something I can understand
It must be cause are states(Florida) are so close, got some family in loganville, GA

 

[Xue Sheng]

BlazeLeeDragon

I am on a different interface and cannot figure out how to quote so let me just answer your question as diplomatically as possible.

Nope he was in his late 20s and I am not speculating my sifu meant him many many years ago in China. Beyond that I have no desire to get into CMC vs Traditional Yang battle silliness

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Blazed your description has dumbfounded me and
Caused me to declare myself officially retarded.

Thank god for clfsean and giving me something I can understand
It must be cause are states(Florida) are so close, got some family in loganville, GA

side note your spelling my nickname wrong there is no d at the end, it's Blaze not Blazed

sorry for the bad description, but I tried.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

BlazeLeeDragon

I am on a different interface and cannot figure out how to quote so let me just answer your question as diplomatically as possible.

Nope he was in his late 20s and I am not speculating my sifu meant him many many years ago in China. Beyond that I have no desire to get into CMC vs Traditional Yang battle silliness

Fair enough, I appreciate the response. So let me amend my last statement from "we" are speculating to "I" am speculating. I've never met him or talked to him, and my exposure to Taiji has been from my school only. Except for some videos on youtube, books, online articles and some documentaries. Thus I'm talking to you guys to attempt to get an idea for why the difference and what things you can see that are tell tale signs of there lineage and style.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Fair enough, I appreciate the response. So let me amend my last statement from "we" are speculating to "I" am speculating. I've never met him or talked to him, and my exposure to Taiji has been from my school only. Except for some videos on youtube, books, online articles and some documentaries. Thus I'm talking to you guys to attempt to get an idea for why the difference and what things you can see that are tell tale signs of there lineage and style.

Blaze

Nothing I said about silliness was directed at you it was simply saying to post what I know would not help the situation, there would be much arguing and frankly I see much of this thread as being very productive and I do not want to change that. I will not speculate since that speculation would be based on what I have been told by one who was there and that "speculation" would cause nothing but trouble.

In this case it is likely best to go with what CMC said in one of his books. But since I do not have that book in front of me at the moment I cannot type it out.

Xue

 

[oaktree]

Sorry Blaze I must be the one who is blazed hahaha.