WTF TKD sparring hands down?

[zDom]

And guys, if your hands are down on the steet, before you can react they will punch the daylights out of you.

See on the street they get close and hit you before they bow.

You should learn to keep your hands up, especially when talking to people you don't know in a strange part of town. It's all habit. Ingrained habit.

Deaf

So you are saying you should stand near strangers in a boxing stance?

Not exactly the best way to make friends

Kidding aside,

"on the street" I make every effort to keep people at arm's length in questionable situations (spider sense tingling!!).

Now here's some irony... I don't like the way WTF rules make it so folk end up rarely guarding their head.

But honestly, if someone is squaring up on me to attack (as opposed to just rushing in) I might just very well keep my hands low for a similar reason: to bait them into coming in at my head so I can counterkick their gut on their way in.

Also, it looks less like you are a willing participant in the fight that if you are in the "put up yer dukes!"-type stance.

 

[Deaf Smith]

zDom,

It's all in context.

If it's a dark night, bad part of town, you don't let stranger get inside your safety zone. Yes you do raise your hands. Palms out. You tell them in a command voice to stay back. You keep your peripheral vision open for any other strangers that might try to walk behind you. You blade your body.

Depends on who is there, what is being said, where you are, numbers of supicious persons, etc...

Fights or attacks don't start in a vacuum. The situation, what is spoken, how it's spoken, body language and more.

But if your mind tells you something is not right, trust it, and either leave or bring your shields up.

Deaf

 

[granfire]

[COLOR=Red][U][I][B] But if your mind tells you something is not right, trust it, and either leave or bring your shields up.[/B][/I][/U][/COLOR]

needs to be repeated!

 

[slingblade01]

In reference to sport TKD, no one has mentioned the number of broken arms that occur from trying to block kicks...of course, I've only seen this at the elite level.

In reference to SD, it's been my experience that staying out of the bad section of town has been far more valuable than decades of practiced blocking.

My $.02

 

[mango.man]

In reference to sport TKD, no one has mentioned the number of broken arms that occur from trying to block kicks...of course, I've only seen this at the elite level.

In reference to SD, it's been my experience that staying out of the bad section of town has been far more valuable than decades of practiced blocking.

My $.02

Allow me than. My daughter has had 2 broken arms and 2 broken hands as a result of blocking. Always on the left, a result of blocking the right foot / leg of her opponent. I only know of 1 confirmed instance where she has broken her opponent in competition.

 

[zDom]

In reference to sport TKD, no one has mentioned the number of broken arms that occur from trying to block kicks...of course, I've only seen this at the elite level.

My $.02

I bet these are the results of passive "hold up arm and wait for kick to hit it" type blocks instead of active "strike the kicking leg with your block" type.

From what I've seen, sport TKDists know as much about blocking as they do punching.

 

[granfire]

Allow me than. My daughter has had 2 broken arms and 2 broken hands as a result of blocking. Always on the left, a result of blocking the right foot / leg of her opponent. I only know of 1 confirmed instance where she has broken her opponent in competition.

Holy cow! How hard do you guys hit?

yet, broken arm is still better than a broken head!

 

[terryl965]

I bet these are the results of passive "hold up arm and wait for kick to hit it" type blocks instead of active "strike the kicking leg with your block" type.

From what I've seen, sport TKDists know as much about blocking as they do punching.

Now now Zdom some of us use the block as a strike and we punch even though we get no points for it. We like to deliver pain as much as possible and then throw the kicks.

 

[mango.man]

Holy cow! How hard do you guys hit?

yet, broken arm is still better than a broken head!

Well if you believe what you read here and on other forums, they don't hit that hard. She only plays that tappity-tap olympic sparring game. Of course if you've not been hit by some of those kicks you really don't know how hard they are hitting.

 

[mango.man]

Now now Zdom some of us use the block as a strike and we punch even though we get no points for it. We like to deliver pain as much as possible and then throw the kicks.

Cover / Punch / Kick is a fairly common practice in olympic tkd.

 

[terryl965]

Well if you believe what you read here and on other forums, they don't hit that hard. She only plays that tappity-tap olympic sparring game. Of course if you've not been hit by some of those kicks you really don't know how hard they are hitting.

Yea I would love to see some of these people get kick by a 2600 pounds of pressure kick coming at forty mile an hours at them and stand there and take it. But if you can strike with the arm like a punch it gets alot easier.

 

[terryl965]

Cover / Punch / Kick is a fairly common practice in olympic tkd.

Yes it is or better known as MR. Freeze when done right.

 

[terryl965]

Why would I (or my daughter who is the TKDist in my family) do that deaf? We understand it is just a game. We are only concerned with the game aspect. It is why we train where we train and with the people we train with. Our goal in TKD is only on winning gold medals in competition. It's why she does WTF sparring and why she keeps her hands down while doing it. Because it gives her a statistical and strategic advantage over an opponent in the ring during the game that comes in protecting only her head.

If my daughter ever found herself in such a situation as you describe she has been clearly instructed on how to protect herself long enough to make an attempt to escape. And those techniques that she has been told to use are things that would get her kicked out of EVERY dojang on the planet if she used them in training. They include Scream, Spit, Scratch, Bite, Knees, Elbows etc but only to a point where you can run like hell. Don't try to stick around and finish anyone off.

Mango do not try and justify what you do, your doughter and you I have meet in Colorado springs last January. Your doughter is a great competitor of the sport and at this time that is what she has choosen to do. Just like some like softball or Volleyball. Let her enjoy herself and make sure she is getting some SD principle as well. Have a great day,

 

[bluekey88]

I bet these are the results of passive "hold up arm and wait for kick to hit it" type blocks instead of active "strike the kicking leg with your block" type.

From what I've seen, sport TKDists know as much about blocking as they do punching.

Ar eyou kidding? [sarcasm]Whenever I spar, I stand there like a human punching bag until my opponent tires out, then I bleed on them....[/sarcasm]

Not only do we teach blocking...but we use it too. Thing is, legs generally stronger than arms...even striking blocks. Better to use good footwork to avoid/absorb blows...hell, it's what your best boxers do, it's the heart and soul of aikido. In this case instead of blending and throwing, we blend/and counter-attack. Beats the hell out of getting hit all the time.

But hey, maybe that's just me.

Peace,
Erik

 

[terryl965]

Bluekey you are exactly right

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well if you believe what you read here and on other forums, they don't hit that hard. She only plays that tappity-tap olympic sparring game. Of course if you've not been hit by some of those kicks you really don't know how hard they are hitting.

Anyone who believes that sport tkd kicks aren't hard apparently hasn't participated.

Daniel

 

[zDom]

Now now Zdom some of us use the block as a strike and we punch even though we get no points for it. We like to deliver pain as much as possible and then throw the kicks.

I think of you as a traditional martial artist who also plays the WTF TKD game, not a sport TKDist.

 

[zDom]

Ar eyou kidding? [sarcasm]Whenever I spar, I stand there like a human punching bag until my opponent tires out, then I bleed on them....[/sarcasm]

Not only do we teach blocking...but we use it too. Thing is, legs generally stronger than arms...even striking blocks. Better to use good footwork to avoid/absorb blows...hell, it's what your best boxers do, it's the heart and soul of aikido. In this case instead of blending and throwing, we blend/and counter-attack. Beats the hell out of getting hit all the time.

But hey, maybe that's just me.

Peace,
Erik

I agree that using distance — avoiding or coming in close enough to take the juice out of a kick — is good.

 

[zDom]

I bet these are the results of passive "hold up arm and wait for kick to hit it" type blocks instead of active "strike the kicking leg with your block" type.

I stand by this statement, from experience. Not saying that all WTF competitors always block this way, just that in cases in which arms are broken, chances are it was a passive block. Legs are stronger, but you are better off striking the leg than waiting for the leg to hit your arm.

And yes, moving out of range of kick or in close enough as to take the power from the kick are very often the best options.

Standing and holding up an arm waiting for the kick to strike it has got to be the worst option with the exception of catching it on the noggin.

From what I've seen, sport TKDists know as much about blocking as they do punching.

This is what I've seen, but not stated well. Yea, it was inflammatory and I apologize.

If seen a lot of good use of avoiding techniques in Olympic style — which is good martial arts. I have seen very little use of punching. Both competitors and officials are to blame.

I've also seen a lot of closing the distance to rub chests together — an example of gaming the game — and sticking arms straight out at the shoulder to prevent axe kicks from rising. IMO, a bad habit to train.

I see this as effective for the game (as officiated), but bad martial arts. Both competitors and officials are to blame.

 

[bluekey88]

If seen a lot of good use of avoiding techniques in Olympic style — which is good martial arts. I have seen very little use of punching. Both competitors and officials are to blame.

I've also seen a lot of closing the distance to rub chests together — an example of gaming the game — and sticking arms straight out at the shoulder to prevent axe kicks from rising. IMO, a bad habit to train.

I see this as effective for the game (as officiated), but bad martial arts. Both competitors and officials are to blame.

Again, playing devil's advocate, even though in a gneral sense this is "bad" MA...isn;t it also "good' MA? Here's what I mean, in a siotuation, a good martial artists uses the tools available to him/her to persevere and overcome/survive. What tools are used and how they are deploy depends ENTIRELY on the situation at hand. If I go to an Olympic style match and just throw punches...not only do I lose...but I get the crud kicked out of me. If I use timing and distance to set up my kicks and then use that unique clinch to keep my opponent from countering (not just with an axe kick but also a jump spinning back kick or reverse round hosue...it prevents that side motion and shuts the opponent down)...I may be playing the game, but I'm also adapting to the situation.

it si my contention that Olympic TKD guys are also good martial artists fully capable of adapting their strategy/tactics to the needs of the situation at hand. I say this because I am a WTF stylist who can do just that. I'm not the world's greatest fighter, but I am fully capable of controlling the power and targetting of my kicks. I can use my hands more, I've got a clinch/ground game. In an olypic style comp, i can't use them, but in dojang free sparring, depending on the rule set I may have to use different tools (all defense/throws...Thank you Aikido, all hands, sparring with sweeps/takedowns, grappling only). If I can do it, and I'm no great fighter...these guys can do it too.

A good martial artist adapts...wether it be a street fight in a dark alley or a competition bout on the Olympic stage.

Peace,
Erik