WTF President : "New uniforms will further promote taekwondo"

[Tez3]

Really? How about the World Taekwondo Hanmadang? The entry fee is zero and 4-5000 competitors regularly show up.

Deals with local businesses, hotels, taxi companies, catering places etc etc?

 

[puunui]

Deals with local businesses, hotels, taxi companies, catering places etc etc?

No, they don't get any of that, all of which is handled by the host city directly. The Kukkiwon doesn't make anything off of the Hanmadang.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

To me, the pioneers worked hard and more importantly worked together to create standardized things in taekwondo. Logos for example. Never did I ever think that the logos of the KTA, WTF and Kukkiwon would change, because there was hidden meaning behind the symbols which worked well together. Now all three organizations changed their logo, and with it, the hidden historical meanings have been lost. Dobok same thing. The v neck uniform is a trademark and symbol of taekwondo, which is both functional and stylish. Going to cross over with colors defeats that. The pioneers settled the uniform, logo, certificate, poomsae, sparring and other issues already, so why change what ain't broke? But, I am not in charge of these things, so I just go along with it, until such time as when I can make a difference, somewhere, somehow.

A better example would be the bylaw changes that were implemented at USAT after 2004. The USTU bylaws up to that point represented 30 years of collective wisdom of the USTU leadership. The bylaws were modified over the years to make the system better. Then in 2004 it was changed to a completely different system, which I and others predicted would lead the USAT to ruin. Eight years later, the USAT is in ruins, on probation from the USOC and on the brink of bankruptcy due to a lack of financial and managerial capability. Now we have to figure out how to fix things, which ultimately means bringing back what our USTU pioneers created for us.

Stuff like that.

Just a question regarding the v neck uniforms, when did they start wearing them in tkd? They are strictly forbidden where I train as our GM hates them with a passion. He has run clubs since the late 60's/early 70's and is big on tradition, so I assume they werent always a tkd thing, or were introduced at some point. Is this the case?

 

[Twin Fist]

i got some ocean front property in arizona i will give you a hell of a deal on.....

No, they don't get any of that, all of which is handled by the host city directly. The Kukkiwon doesn't make anything off of the Hanmadang.

 

[mastercole]

Just a question regarding the v neck uniforms, when did they start wearing them in tkd? They are strictly forbidden where I train as our GM hates them with a passion. He has run clubs since the late 60's/early 70's and is big on tradition, so I assume they werent always a tkd thing, or were introduced at some point. Is this the case?

The "dobok" of Taekwondo was made the official uniform of Taekwondo in July of 1978. The design was chosen because it was more traditional than the wrap around "dogi" that came from Japanese Judo, as the "dobok" resembled the traditional Korean clothes that went back to ancient Korea called the "hanbok." So placing "do" from Taekwondo, and "bok" from Hanbok together, we get a uniform that is traditional with modern convenience, and had great symbolic meaning to both Korean ancient times, and the core principles of "do", or Tao.

 

[mastercole]

No, they don't get any of that, all of which is handled by the host city directly. The Kukkiwon doesn't make anything off of the Hanmadang.

It's the private school owner, or private business associations that make money on tournaments and seminars. The Kukkiwon is actually very generous and gives many benefits to Taekwondoin.

 

[miguksaram]

i got some ocean front property in arizona i will give you a hell of a deal on.....

I'm so glad you have first hand knowledge on the inner workings of the World Hanmadang and who makes money. Perhaps you could share some of that in depth knowledge with us. Perhaps you can start by letting us know who arranges the event and which person specifically is getting a kickback. Please...I await with much anticipation.

 

[Twin Fist]

you ever run a business? i have. first rule of business? dont do anything that doesnt turn a profit.

I call this "the Rule of duh"

give me a friggin break. The KKW, hell, every org is about making money. And the bigger they are, the more money they need to make to survive. Good intentions or not, that is just simple reality. And no i dont know specifics, because i refuse to be a slave to a corrupt korean org that does NOTHING for it's members other than suck money from them and apparently tell them what to wear......

edited to add, orgs certainly have the right to tell thier people what to wear. I mean the ATA has strict rules about such things too......

 

[miguksaram]

you ever run a business? i have. first rule of business? dont do anything that doesnt turn a profit.

I call this "the Rule of duh"

Yes, I have and as I always understood it, the first rule of business is that you need to invest money to make money. However, I guess everyone has their own set of rules.

give me a friggin break. The KKW, hell, every org is about making money. And the bigger they are, the more money they need to make to survive. Good intentions or not, that is just simple reality. And no i dont know specifics, because i refuse to be a slave to a corrupt korean org that does NOTHING for it's members other than suck money from them and apparently tell them what to wear......

I am not sure how many more times it has to be stated to you but it is the WTF who is asking people to wear specific uniforms when competing at WTF events. This has nothing to do with KKW. And neither KKW or WTF dictate what you have to wear in your school. School owners dictate what students can wear. And why is that such a huge deal to you? Other sport organizations do the same thing. You are mandated to wear specific style uniforms in order to compete in the event. Please explain why WTF are bad people because they are implementing this rule for their events? I suppose you just allow all your students to show up in shorts and t-shirts or whatever they please at your school and testing right?

So what this breaks down to is that you don't know anything about what they do, how they do it, or why they do it. Got it.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

you ever run a business? i have. first rule of business? dont do anything that doesnt turn a profit.

I call this "the Rule of duh"

give me a friggin break.

I run a studio and I do not do so for charity. Every decision is not about making money. If all the KKW heads were interested in was making money then they would not run an MA org. They would take the money that they have made and bale to get into stocks or banking, where the only consideration is literally making money.

The care and detail that went into the Kukkiwon text book is not indicative of an organization that is only about money.

As for these new WTF doboks, if anything, I see it as being not about money. Sorry, but if money were the sole consideration, they would not have come up with these doboks. I mean really, what is the point? They already have a sleek, modern dobok that people are very happy with and which is immediately recognizable as not only taekwondo, but KKW/WTF taekwondo specifically. Why change? I think that the answer is that they want to further emphasize the Korean heritage of the art. You could make a case for this decision being motivated by nationalism, but not by greed.

The KKW, hell, every org is about making money. And the bigger they are, the more money they need to make to survive. Good intentions or not, that is just simple reality. And no i dont know specifics, because i refuse to be a slave to a corrupt korean org that does NOTHING for it's members other than suck money from them and apparently tell them what to wear......

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that you were part of Jhoon Rhee's organizaiton. If so, what does his organization do that the KKW, or in the case of this thread, the WTF, does not do?

Given that there is no membership dues for the WTF, how is it that they suck money from their members? Aside from dan gradings, which are relatively few and far between (customers who only buy every few years are not the best customer base if making a fortune is your goal) how does the Kukkiwon suck money from its members?

 

[jks9199]

Folks,
Put a leash on the attacks. Keep things friendly and to the topic, without bashing each other.

 

[Twin Fist]

i didnt say it was bad. i pointed out that there is almost certainly a financial gain for someone in this decision, and i am quite sure of it.

Now, in point of fact, i dislike being told what to wear at events, BUT i certainly see the logic in it.

and you dont know what i know, and saying you do is not only insulting it is decidedly ill informed, i will take your apology now since i know you to be a fairly reasonable guy. And I will accept it with no reservation.

BTW- yeah, i have ZERO respect for the wtf since they promote a sport that SHOULD be called kickboxing, not TKD. And i DO know that one is over rank standards and whatnot and the other is other the sport

BUT

i will say that you cant really seperate the WTF and the KKW, they are two parts of one whole, feeding each other so i dont see much difference in them. .

Yes, I have and as I always understood it, the first rule of business is that you need to invest money to make money. However, I guess everyone has their own set of rules.


I am not sure how many more times it has to be stated to you but it is the WTF who is asking people to wear specific uniforms when competing at WTF events. This has nothing to do with KKW. And neither KKW or WTF dictate what you have to wear in your school. School owners dictate what students can wear. And why is that such a huge deal to you? Other sport organizations do the same thing. You are mandated to wear specific style uniforms in order to compete in the event. Please explain why WTF are bad people because they are implementing this rule for their events? I suppose you just allow all your students to show up in shorts and t-shirts or whatever they please at your school and testing right?

So what this breaks down to is that you don't know anything about what they do, how they do it, or why they do it. Got it.

 

[Twin Fist]

Daniel,
I have, in my entire life only joined TWO orgs related to martial arts

the southwest karate association, a collection of 6 schools that all taught the same exact system and tested together, yes, it made money, and guess what? the head of the org? just so happened to sell the patches. that everyone HAD to wear

the IKKA-joining was mandatory to test for rank in the Ed Parker system at the school i was at

I have never been under any org ran by GM Rhee.

I dislike orgs the same way i dislike unions, and for the same reasons.

I run a studio and I do not do so for charity. Every decision is not about making money. If all the KKW heads were interested in was making money then they would not run an MA org. They would take the money that they have made and bale to get into stocks or banking, where the only consideration is literally making money.

The care and detail that went into the Kukkiwon text book is not indicative of an organization that is only about money.

As for these new WTF doboks, if anything, I see it as being not about money. Sorry, but if money were the sole consideration, they would not have come up with these doboks. I mean really, what is the point? They already have a sleek, modern dobok that people are very happy with and which is immediately recognizable as not only taekwondo, but KKW/WTF taekwondo specifically. Why change? I think that the answer is that they want to further emphasize the Korean heritage of the art. You could make a case for this decision being motivated by nationalism, but not by greed.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that you were part of Jhoon Rhee's organizaiton. If so, what does his organization do that the KKW, or in the case of this thread, the WTF, does not do?

Given that there is no membership dues for the WTF, how is it that they suck money from their members? Aside from dan gradings, which are relatively few and far between (customers who only buy every few years are not the best customer base if making a fortune is your goal) how does the Kukkiwon suck money from its members?

 

[miguksaram]

and you dont know what i know, and saying you do is not only insulting it is decidedly ill informed, i will take your apology now since i know you to be a fairly reasonable guy. And I will accept it with no reservation.

Which is why I asked you to enlighten us with your knowledge about the inner workings of the KKW and the Word Hanmadang and who is getting the kick backs from the, and I paraphrase your words, "greedy corrupt Koreans" as you have so often called them, which by the way is not only racist, but very insulting to my family as my wife is Korean. So since I am a reasonable, you show me your knowledge about the inner workings of the KKW and the Word Hanmadang and who is getting the kick backs, plus an added apology for insulting my wife and many of my friends both KKW Koreans and just regular folks, and I will be glad to reciprocate the emotion and admit I was totally wrong about what you know. Until then I stand by what I say.

 

[Twin Fist]

mentioning race does not equate to racism.

I am quite sure there are many greedy corrupt americans involved in the kkw/wtf. we see stories about it constantly.

and i know tournaments. we used to throw a small one, only about 400 people. we made about 30K off it. percentages off gate, entry fees, equipment sales, snack bar, hotels, etc lots of money to be made, and the bigger the tourny, the more money to make.

so yeah, people throw tournaments to make money. If they didnt make money, they couldnt do it.

and yeah, the KKW is CORRUPT, they flat out made up a history, that was FALSE and they published it and continue to push this LIE on people. That equals corruption. Sorry to break it to you.

YOU are getting personal, and the mods have already gotten involved once. Just ease down.

 

[miguksaram]

mentioning race does not equate to racism.

I am quite sure there are many greedy corrupt americans involved in the kkw/wtf. we see stories about it constantly.

But that is not the statement you made was it. Here is your statement:

look, the cold hard reality is when it comes to martial arts? koreans are thieves and liars

No where did you mention whites, blacks, hispanics, chinese, japanese, etc...you only pointed out Koreans and not just in the KKW but in martial arts in general. So yes...I find that being quite racist not to mention just plain ignorant and stupid. I have many good friends who are Korean and in martial arts..not just in Taekwondo, but Okinawan, Arnis, MMA and yes, even Kenpo.

and i know tournaments. we used to throw a small one, only about 400 people. we made about 30K off it. percentages off gate, entry fees, equipment sales, snack bar, hotels, etc lots of money to be made, and the bigger the tourny, the more money to make.

Well good for you, but that still does not equate to knowing the inner workings of the Hanmadang or what the KKW does and does not do for it. What actual facts do you know about the World Hanmadang? What facts do you have to support your claim that KKW profits off of all of this or receives kickbacks. I really do not care about your experience in your little world of tournaments. I never said you did not know crap about throwing a tournament. I said you did not know crap about the World Hanmadang or the inner workings of the KKW. You want me to apologize for this assumption but you have yet to show me being wrong.

YOU are getting personal, and the mods have already gotten involved once. Just ease down.

Actually you made it personal when you insulted people who I know. Not to mention, you made it personal when you demanded an apology from me without giving me any proof to show me I had something to apologize for. Perhaps your pride is too big to admit that your statement about Koreans was too general and too racist and say you are sorry for it. Perhaps you really are just an ignorant person who believes that to be true. I don't know. What I do know is that once you make general statements about a certain race without proof that the whole race is like that, then guess what...you are being racist.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

For the love of Pete! Here's another thread about to be locked by the mods.

 

[Twin Fist]

one last time, quit insulting me personally.

No one insulted YOU, so cut it out.

 

[jks9199]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. Please avoid personal attacks.

Jim Sheeran
jks9199
MT Asst. Administrator

 

[Bob Hubbard]

For the love of Pete! Here's another thread about to be locked by the mods.

Last friendly warning folks. Drop the heat. We really don't want to end up locking threads, and having to go -heavy- in here.

Help us out and just cool it a bit please?

Thanks.